Is Hell really a place of fire?

[ezeric]

To my neighbouring province of Manitoba...
You mention:

All the stuff you're proposing about what Jesus really meant you must read into his words. You'll never get to the truth by trying to force your own views into passages that actually refute them.

Reading into it? Lol

GOD is SPIRIT, you don't simply take HIM or HIS WORD (which is JESUS) at face value and not grow from there.
HIS word is alive, and you grow into more revelation , deeper into HIS LOVE.
What you are saying is simply another gospel, of fear, wrath, condemnation.

You mention universalism (I didn't) I'm just boasting about 2 things:

1) JESUS is way bigger than you and I think.
2) And HIS LOVE never fails.

I've explained to those that want to listen, the supremacy of CHRIST. Colossians 1:15

And why those hard to understand scriptures JESUS gave, come to life, when you understand that all are bound up in sin, so that GOD can have mercy on them all.

And your response?

Universalism....

A term I didn't mention, but like cursing, its a word people use when they can't refute the complete passion of GOD who is LOVE.

They stumble over the rock. 1 Peter 2:8

LOVE you brother, my prayer is that all our eyes will be opened to see more of the riches of HIS AMAZING GRACE.

About a LOVE that does not fail. 1 Corinthians 13:8
To A GOD that will never leave us, never forsake us! Hebrews 13:5

-eric

 

[Inkachu]

I definitely believe it's a real place, with real darkness AND real fire. There's nothing that says that God can't create fire that doesn't produce light; He's GOD. There's also nothing that says there can't be areas of darkness in hell, and areas of fire (in the earthly sense). I don't think hell is one tiny little pit where everyone is squished together in a 500 sq foot area. I doubt the entirety of hell conforms to one single descriptive (hot, dark, etc). And I don't think God would describe hell as fiery so many times if it weren't. THAT is what doesn't make sense.

 

[Inkachu]

THe purpose of the burning bush was to attract Moses' attention and to make it clear that he was in a moment with God Himself...
...I'm afraid I don't see that this is so - at all. Your comments do not convey sound doctrine or biblical truth. As so many today seem to want to do, you have abandoned a full picture of God for one that over-emphasizes His love. You have embraced a caricature of God that is impossible to reconcile to His wrath, holiness and justice. Unfortunately, you have had to abandon the clear and explicit teaching of Scripture to do so.

Not going to quote your whole post just because it was so lengthy, but you made some excellent points. People who only want to see God as gracious and loving and touchy-feely, and ignore the fact that He is also just, righteous, holy, jealous, and filled with wrath over sin, are totally missing His true nature. Yes, God is patient, kind, merciful, and loving (heck, He's put up with our screwed-up humanity for thousands of years already, that's proof enough), but ultimately, there will be a day of reckoning and a judgement. There's nothing "unfair" about hell; we all deserve it. God is overly gracious already in that He paid OUR price, and He offers every single person a way out of hell and into heaven. What should happen to those who reject Him? Should He drag them unwillingly into heaven? We don't like to think about these things because they make us squirm uncomfortably in our church pews. Ultimately though, every person has to answer for themselves and their choice, and nobody can claim God wasn't "fair" to them. He's already been more than fair to all of us.

 

[itdepends]

@ ezeric

After reading your posts, I was wondering if you would please identify the following for me, based mostly on descriptions:

* a place where your enemies have authority over you, and not always by your choosing
* a place where believers cry out to God for help, but may refuse the help he sends, and still get tormented by their enemies
* a place that seems to be separated from a place of "safety" by a chasm, and a wall of fire
* people may see others there, but do not cross to help them, or may choose to not cross to be with them
* a place where people cry out for help, rot, some seem to die slowly, some seem to die quickly
* a place seemingly governed by spiritual rules and laws which entrap and ensure, and enemies wreak havoc and torment and oppress. Places within it can seem deceptively beautiful
* Jesus is there, but doesn't always let a person out of it, even though He may be with them


I could probably go on and on … but based on such a description, what would you say this place is ? Is there an apt title for it ?

 

[ezeric]

@ ezeric

After reading your posts, I was wondering if you would please identify the following for me, based mostly on descriptions:

* a place where your enemies have authority over you, and not always by your choosing
* a place where believers cry out to God for help, but may refuse the help he sends, and still get tormented by their enemies
* a place that seems to be separated from a place of "safety" by a chasm, and a wall of fire
* people may see others there, but do not cross to help them, or may choose to not cross to be with them
* a place where people cry out for help, rot, some seem to die slowly, some seem to die quickly
* a place seemingly governed by spiritual rules and laws which entrap and ensure, and enemies wreak havoc and torment and oppress. Places within it can seem deceptively beautiful
* Jesus is there, but doesn't always let a person out of it, even though He may be with them


I could probably go on and on … but based on such a description, what would you say this place is ? Is there an apt title for it ?

You are using a parable of the rich man and Lazarus (see Luke 16:19-31) as a factual story! You don't translate any other parable as direct fact but only this one - strange?

You see, I used to think that way too until I realized it was a parable, and the scripture says that JESUS only spoke in parables.

And no the kingdom is not a mustard seed (although it is), in that if I have found a mustard seed in a store or on the ground - hence, I've found the Kingdom!

All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable. Matthew 13:34

That parable was about the Jewish people losing their GOD to the Gentiles, and that is why they got so mad at HIM.

-eric

 

[Spunkn]

Luke 16:19-20 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

Parables do not speak about certain people. This means it was referring to real people.

 

[itdepends]

You are using a parable of the rich man and Lazarus (see Luke 16:19-31) as a factual story! You don't translate any other parable as direct fact but only this one - strange?

I wasn't using the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. I was describing a place and was asking you if you could identify it or your opinion on where/what it is, based mostly on descriptions only. As to your second comment ... who are you talking to and if it's to me, what is the origin of those assumptions ?

You see, I used to think that way too until I realized it was a parable, and the scripture says that JESUS only spoke in parables.

And no the kingdom is not a mustard seed (although it is), in that if I have found a mustard seed in a store or on the ground - hence, I've found the Kingdom!

All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable. Matthew 13:34

That parable was about the Jewish people losing their GOD to the Gentiles, and that is why they got so mad at HIM.

-eric

Again lol ... I wasn't talking about parables. So I don't know what you're talking about "I used to think that way too". I asked if you could identify the place I was describing, or what you thought it was. I could have left the question open to anyone in the thread actually. I think your response is reflecting miscommunication perhaps.

It would be like me saying, "Can you tell me what this is ? It's a round orange piece of fruit, very tangy, you can drink the juice from it. What is it ? Or can you tell me what this place is: it's in the middle of the ocean, people say "Aloha", surf, and apparently there was a famous US military ship that was attacked and sank there. What is the place I'm describing ?"

So do you have an opinion on the place I'm describing, as to what it's called or could be labeled/termed/recognized as ?

 

[The Fire Rises]

It would be like me saying, "Can you tell me what this is ? It's a round orange piece of fruit, very tangy, you can drink the juice from it. What is it ? Or can you tell me what this place is: it's in the middle of the ocean, people say "Aloha", surf, and apparently there was a famous US military ship that was attacked and sank there. What is the place I'm describing ?"

Hmmm...those are pretty tough, how about another hint?

 

[ezeric]

I wasn't using the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. I was describing a place and was asking you if you could identify it or your opinion on where/what it is, based mostly on descriptions only. As to your second comment ... who are you talking to and if it's to me, what is the origin of those assumptions ?

Again lol ... I wasn't talking about parables. So I don't know what you're talking about "I used to think that way too". I asked if you could identify the place I was describing, or what you thought it was. I could have left the question open to anyone in the thread actually. I think your response is reflecting miscommunication perhaps.

It would be like me saying, "Can you tell me what this is ? It's a round orange piece of fruit, very tangy, you can drink the juice from it. What is it ? Or can you tell me what this place is: it's in the middle of the ocean, people say "Aloha", surf, and apparently there was a famous US military ship that was attacked and sank there. What is the place I'm describing ?"

So do you have an opinion on the place I'm describing, as to what it's called or could be labeled/termed/recognized as ?

Sorry, I guess I wasn't thinking as deep as you...

And didn't know which way you were going, but I'm guess with you it depends...

-eric

 

[itdepends]

Hmmm...those are pretty tough, how about another hint?

The orange fruit is round .... round like a ball ;-)

The place in the middle of the ocean ... it's one of the oceans that's wet hahaha

 

[itdepends]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't thinking as deep as you...

And didn't know which way you were going, but I'm guess with you it depends...

-eric

I didn't see how it involved deep thinking ... I describe a place, and ask you if you are able to identify it or think you know what it is. And the first part of your last statement ... as far as where I was "going", again, I was asking a straight up question I thought lol. And I have no idea what you mean by the very last part here in your post ... I get the play on words but I don't get what it has to do with my question.

Are you going to answer my question ? If not, you don't have to of course, but I don't get what your responses so far have to do with answering it.

 

[The Fire Rises]

The orange fruit is round .... round like a ball ;-)

The place in the middle of the ocean ... it's one of the oceans that's wet hahaha

I give up.

Clearly I'm not on the same level as you are lol.

 

[The Fire Rises]

This is Billy Graham's take on this issue:

A questioner identified only as P.McN had contacted Graham and asked: “Why would a loving God send anyone to hell? I can’t reconcile the idea of hell with Jesus’ teaching about love. I’m not sure I even believe in hell anyway. Maybe everyone will be saved, even if they weren’t expecting it.”

The respected evangelical leader pointed the person to Luke 12:5, where Jesus says, “I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.”

“It may surprise you to discover that no one taught about hell or warned us against it more than Jesus – and we should take his words very seriously,” responded Graham, 92, to the questioner on the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association’s “Billy Graham’s My Answer” webpage on Tuesday.

“But listen: God doesn’t want us to go there! If we do, it will only be because of our stubborn desire to leave God out of our lives,” the well-known preacher added.

Addressing the question about hell head on, Graham referenced Matthew 8:12 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 to give readers an idea of what hell is like: darkness, absolute hopelessness, and the absence of God.

“God doesn’t hate us; He loves us, and that is why He has provided a way for us to be forgiven of our sins and go to be with Him in heaven,” Graham assured.

“That way is Christ, who gave his life for us. Don’t take hell lightly or talk yourself into believing it doesn’t exist – it does. Instead, turn to Jesus Christ and open your heart and life to him today,” the evangelist urged.

 

[itdepends]

I give up.

Clearly I'm not on the same level as you are lol.

It's all good, I'll have to send you my notes to "Advanced Oranges" class lol

This is Billy Graham's take on this issue:

A questioner identified only as P.McN had contacted Graham and asked

I actually read P.McN as "PacMan" lol Now THAT is the advanced level I believe haha

 

[The Fire Rises]

Lol, yeah.

I always suspected Pacman was a religious-based game. After all, it has ghosts in it.

 

[freezerman2000]

Think about eternal solitary confinement..without guards (complete isolation)..in utter darkness..total sensory deprivation if you will,with only the mind functioning.THAT to me is what Hell is.

 

[itdepends]

Lol, yeah.

I always suspected Pacman was a religious-based game. After all, it has ghosts in it.

Well played sir, well played lol

Man I could make so many jokes, but I'll stop haha

 

[ezeric]

TheFirerises & Itdepends

Its good you guys are making jokes. You both made me laugh even in a hot topic...thanks!

-eric

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

It is not a figure of speech. I have watched many NDEs which talks of people thrown into fire and tormented there. It is an endless process and it goes on and on.

Philosophers, scholars and scientists are dangerous. They only want to prove everything and end up twisting the Word. It will do you good if you don't listen to people like these. Instead of following the opinion of man ask God about it and He will reveal the truth to you.

You just told the poster not to "follow the opinion of man".....which, if he was to do so, would be to "follow the opinion of man" (you), which is the very thing you told him to avoid.
Oh..oh, you meant everyone but you, right? Right....

NDEs are notoriously unreliable as evience of anything. People of different convictions experience different scenes! Hindus, Buddhists, seculars, etc, do not have the same experience as some of the people you mention do.
Furthermore, some scientists believe that NDEs are somehow part of the body's way of "shutting down", in a way we do not understand yet.
Granted, this does not mean that it IS so, but it is definitely a possibility, and a more likely one than what you claim - because if you were to be right, then everyone's NDE should be exactly the same. It isn't. QED.

Hell itself is most certainly not "figurative". It is a place, the Bible makes that much clear. What is true, though, is that if taken literally, the images of hell that we are given, ARE contradictory - they cannot both be true. Hell cannot BOTH be a place of complete darkness, AND consist of a burning lake, because the fires would light up the place.

The point of the descriptions are NOT to give a snapshot of what exactly hell will be like, but to warn us about the indescribable horror of it in a way we can understand!

Think about eternal solitary confinement..without guards (complete isolation)..in utter darkness..total sensory deprivation if you will,with only the mind functioning.THAT to me is what Hell is.

THIS guy is on to the right idea.

 

[The Fire Rises]

Well played sir, well played lol

Man I could make so many jokes, but I'll stop haha

Yeah we should probably stop, I've found the mods aren't always so easily amused (no offense)