Is heaven in or outside time?

[darknova]

Hey,

Well basically it doesn't seem to make sense to me for heaven to be in time or outside time. If heaven is timeless then in some sense we exist in heaven now and before we were born and with God before creation.

If heaven is in time then eternity just seems like too long. I know that because it is heaven we wont get bored, but I don't know if I would want to live forever, unending. For consciousness to continue a million years and then still have a billion billion to go and for that not even to be a fraction of our time there, just seems very strange and in the end unwanted.

Edit: Also in a heaven with time there can only be a limited number of things that can be done and there is unlimited time, so in the end every act in every combination will be done and after that heaven would become a time loop, just doing the same things over and over again. This this a problem, can it be solved?

So a timeless heaven seems more satisfying, but very wierd at the same time because it would be hard to say how it is that we could say that we personally live beyond death when our minds are by nature in time.

The idea of a literal afterlife seems quite central to Christianity, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Opinions??

 

[GakuseiDon]

If heaven is timeless then in some sense we exist in heaven now and before we were born and with God before creation.

Isn't that rather comforting, though? From the atheist perspective, in some sense we are already dead, and have been from eternity. I suppose the atheist could say that it makes them value the time they have here now, but value it for what? (I don't believe in Hell personally, so I think the only options are we are in Heaven right now or in some sense we are already dead.)

I think that the idea that we already exist eternally in some form and this world is really just some kind of dream is an old one, going back to the Greek philosophers. CS Lewis calls our life here a "Shadowlands", a reflection of what will come, and the decisions made here a reflection of our eternal selves. I recommend reading his fiction work "The Great Divorce between Heaven and Hell". The story is about a group of tourists from Purgatory who travel to Heaven, and decide they don't like it so want to go 'home'.

 

[darknova]

Isn't that rather comforting, though? From the atheist perspective, in some sense we are already dead, and have been from eternity. I suppose the atheist could say that it makes them value the time they have here now, but value it for what? (I don't believe in Hell personally, so I think the only options are we are in Heaven right now or in some sense we are already dead.)

I'm not sure if it is comforting or if it just makes the afterlife seem unrealistic. A timeless life is nothing like how we understand life.

I guess my problem is that it means two me exist and one of me has always been with God before creation. Yet according to Christianity my timeless existance would depends on what happens in life.

As well as this how can we be created in timelessness. It seems that in the beginning there must be only God and then logically afterwards comes our timeless selves.

Also I think my problem with this is that a timeless heaven is that it seems closer to death than a heaven in time. By this I mean a timeless heaven seems like a sleep that never ends (a good dream of course) rather than being awake and being able to live like we know life.

I think that the idea that we already exist eternally in some form and this world is really just some kind of dream is an old one, going back to the Greek philosophers. CS Lewis calls our life here a "Shadowlands", a reflection of what will come, and the decisions made here a reflection of our eternal selves. I recommend reading his fiction work "The Great Divorce between Heaven and Hell". The story is about a group of tourists from Purgatory who travel to Heaven, and decide they don't like it so want to go 'home'.

Yeah I was thinking it sounds a bit like Plato too, except that our existance on earth logically comes first because life in heaven, rather than being in the World of Forms and then comming to earth.

I've actually already read The Great Divorce, good book. Do you believe in a hell like that then, or what?

 

[ElijahW]

I think you make good points against the concept of an afterlife in heaven which is why I think the idea of a resurrection of the dead was appealing to some of the Jews and early Christians of that time. The timeless understanding of how heaven worked forced people to place their hopes in other alternatives like the resurrection to achieve life after death. The idea, also as you point out, of us existing within heaven or the kingdom of heaven turned the plan into aligning the flawed material world to the spiritual world or at least turn the people’s attention to the spiritual aspect of the universe.


I don’t know about the idea that your desire for life is going to wane just because your life-line extends out. I think it’s a problem that will have to be address but I don’t know how much different a day in your billionth year is going to feel from your 50 year. I think what will make you want to continue living will be what your current situation is and what your outlook on the future looks like, not how long you’ve been around. I would think the longer you go the less time should be a problem to you, not something that you can’t adapt to and is going to eventually break you.

 

[darknova]

I think you make good points against the concept of an afterlife in heaven which is why I think the idea of a resurrection of the dead was appealing to some of the Jews and early Christians of that time. The timeless understanding of how heaven worked forced people to place their hopes in other alternatives like the resurrection to achieve life after death. The idea, also as you point out, of us existing within heaven or the kingdom of heaven turned the plan into aligning the flawed material world to the spiritual world or at least turn the people’s attention to the spiritual aspect of the universe.


I don’t know about the idea that your desire for life is going to wane just because your life-line extends out. I think it’s a problem that will have to be address but I don’t know how much different a day in your billionth year is going to feel from your 50 year. I think what will make you want to continue living will be what your current situation is and what your outlook on the future looks like, not how long you’ve been around. I would think the longer you go the less time should be a problem to you, not something that you can’t adapt to and is going to eventually break you.

A heaven with time has always made more sense to me in the past because it is a type of existance which makes sense to us and it the type of existance the New Testament seems to be looking forward to.

But I think time can make a difference. After 50 years on earth I will still want to live, I might even want to live hundreds, even a few thousand years, but I doubt I would want any more than that. In the end you would end up doing everything you ever wanted to do and will have repeated the best bits many times. This could be true of heaven since there can only be a limited number of things that can be done and there is unlimited time, so in the end every act in every combination will be done and after that heaven would become a time loop, just doing the same things over and over again.

Of course I don't want to put you off your belief, obvious God knows what is good for us in your belief system. I see the appeal of infinite life, but I don't know if it is possible, though I would love it to be if it were in our best interest.

This is actually one of my main probables with Christianity at the moment. Is the afterlife a real possibility?

 

[ShaunJ72]

People are entirely welcome to make up and believe whichever comforting post-death fantasy makes them happiest, but that sums it all up really - wishful thinking. That's fine and all, and I respect everyone's right to believe whatever they wish, but don't let it spoil this life for you or anyone else. It's too short to waste.

BTW, Atheists don't think they are already dead - in any sense, metaphorical or otherwise. Life is for living and life is right now. You shouldn't need anything else, and many people don't.

If believers could take a metaphorical step back and examine their fears about the 'dreadful' prospects of a life with no afterlife attached, maybe they could begin to identify the main reason why humans in every culture (since we developed brains capable of foreseeing our own demise) have developed such belief systems - to cope with the biggie: Fear of Dying.

That's what it all boils down to: Fear of death and the unknown.

 

[GakuseiDon]

I'm not sure if it is comforting or if it just makes the afterlife seem unrealistic. A timeless life is nothing like how we understand life.

I agree. Still, if we believe that time is part of this reality, and heaven is somehow outside of time, then by definition such a life would be 'timeless', even if we can't understand what they would mean.

I guess my problem is that it means two me exist and one of me has always been with God before creation. Yet according to Christianity my timeless existance would depends on what happens in life.

I don't think there are two of you, any more than when you sleep there is two of you: a dream-you and a real-you. Just the one. One is within time, the other outside of time. That your timeless existence and your existence 'in time' are connected isn't a problem, AFAICT.

As well as this how can we be created in timelessness. It seems that in the beginning there must be only God and then logically afterwards comes our timeless selves.

I agree that the implications of the timing of timeless events are headache inducing! Still, we have the same with a naturalistic universe. At some point time began. What started time existing?

Also I think my problem with this is that a timeless heaven is that it seems closer to death than a heaven in time. By this I mean a timeless heaven seems like a sleep that never ends (a good dream of course) rather than being awake and being able to live like we know life.

It might be, I honestly don't know.

I've actually already read The Great Divorce, good book. Do you believe in a hell like that then, or what?

No, I don't believe in hell. I can't reconcile a belief in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent God and the existence of hell.

On the other hand, if God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent, and He does condemn people to hell, I'm sure He has a Damned good reason to do so. But no Christian has to believe that anyone goes to hell (even if there is one), so I'm happy to leave this up to God.

 

[drich0150]

Hey,

Well basically it doesn't seem to make sense to me for heaven to be in time or outside time. If heaven is timeless then in some sense we exist in heaven now and before we were born and with God before creation.

If heaven is in time then eternity just seems like too long. I know that because it is heaven we wont get bored, but I don't know if I would want to live forever, unending. For consciousness to continue a million years and then still have a billion billion to go and for that not even to be a fraction of our time there, just seems very strange and in the end unwanted.

Edit: Also in a heaven with time there can only be a limited number of things that can be done and there is unlimited time, so in the end every act in every combination will be done and after that heaven would become a time loop, just doing the same things over and over again. This this a problem, can it be solved?

So a timeless heaven seems more satisfying, but very weird at the same time because it would be hard to say how it is that we could say that we personally live beyond death when our minds are by nature in time.

The idea of a literal afterlife seems quite central to Christianity, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Opinions??

The concept of eternity places everything described by it, outside the bounds of time. also know that "Heaven" is just the city the the presents of God can be found... We still have the "heavens" to explore.. Why else do you think God created a infinite universe?

 

[GakuseiDon]

People are entirely welcome to make up and believe whichever comforting post-death fantasy makes them happiest, but that sums it all up really - wishful thinking. That's fine and all, and I respect everyone's right to believe whatever they wish, but don't let it spoil this life for you or anyone else. It's too short to waste.

In what sense would such a life be a waste, under an atheist purview? I'm not trying to be provocative, but how would you measure a wasteful life vs a non-wasteful one?

BTW, Atheists don't think they are already dead - in any sense, metaphorical or otherwise. Life is for living and life is right now. You shouldn't need anything else, and many people don't.

I meant "already dead" from a perspective outside of time. Whereas the Christian is eternally alive.

If believers could take a metaphorical step back and examine their fears about the 'dreadful' prospects of a life with no afterlife attached, maybe they could begin to identify the main reason why humans in every culture (since we developed brains capable of foreseeing our own demise) have developed such belief systems - to cope with the biggie: Fear of Dying.

That's what it all boils down to: Fear of death and the unknown.

I know that this is used a lot to describe why people came to believe in religion, but why should Christians be afraid of dying? I don't doubt that some people embrace religion for that reason, but philosophically Christians should be the last people to fear dying. Fear of living perhaps (for those who feel God's Eyes on them always), but not a fear of dying.

 

[darknova]

I agree. Still, if we believe that time is part of this reality, and heaven is somehow outside of time, then by definition such a life would be 'timeless', even if we can't understand what they would mean.

It could be outside our time but still have its own time.

I don't think there are two of you, any more than when you sleep there is two of you: a dream-you and a real-you. Just the one. One is within time, the other outside of time. That your timeless existence and your existence 'in time' are connected isn't a problem, AFAICT.

What I mean is, if heaven is timeless and someone I knew died now, they would see me in heaven even though when they died I was still alive and well.

I agree that the implications of the timing of timeless events are headache inducing! Still, we have the same with a naturalistic universe. At some point time began. What started time existing?

I don't have too much of a problem with this question though.

No, I don't believe in hell. I can't reconcile a belief in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent God and the existence of hell.

I agree that the traditional idea of hell doesn't seem to go well with a loving God.

 

[darknova]

The concept of eternity places everything described by it, outside the bounds of time. also know that "Heaven" is just the city the the presents of God can be found... We still have the "heavens" to explore.. Why else do you think God created a infinite universe?

I'm not sure I understand

 

[ElijahW]

A heaven with time has always made more sense to me in the past because it is a type of existance which makes sense to us and it the type of existance the New Testament seems to be looking forward to.

But I think time can make a difference. After 50 years on earth I will still want to live, I might even want to live hundreds, even a few thousand years, but I doubt I would want any more than that. In the end you would end up doing everything you ever wanted to do and will have repeated the best bits many times. This could be true of heaven since there can only be a limited number of things that can be done and there is unlimited time, so in the end every act in every combination will be done and after that heaven would become a time loop, just doing the same things over and over again.

As Heraclitus said “No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.”You don’t have to really worry about repeating events because everything is in flux, even you. There is no limit to the number of experiences to have because you are always changing/evolving your perspective of a constantly changing universe.

I don't see it as going to come down to things repeating but the current emotional/mental states of the people. It’s not that there won’t be anything new; it just won’t be interesting to do for the person. Not to be too hokey but I think if the person has love in their life, then anything less than eternity won’t do.

I could see just being pessimistic about handling eternity could lead you to snap and want to take your life though. No pessimists in heaven would be weird turn out.

This is actually one of my main probables with Christianity at the moment. Is the afterlife a real possibility?

I’m optimistic but I have a sci-fi influence going on. I root for the utopia turnout instead of the dystopia future. I think since you have a good mental picture of how much time we are dealing with you can see how much progress we still have left to make as a species, (if a disaster doesn’t get us early). Man figuring out how to overcome death doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility within the next millennium. After that, even if it takes a million more years to figure out how to retrieve information from the past, eventually they are going to figure a way to bring back lost loved ones back.

 

[Joveia]

Because the Bible teaches we will be resurrected with bodies in a New Earth (Rev 21:1), I believe there will be an eternity of successive moments.

Your query about whether it could ever be fun to have an eternity of successive moments is a very common thought... but I would say that there is a way it could be a good thing.

Something interesting I find about this issue is that God can't suffer from this problem. Think about it like this: if God is eternal and infinite, then God must be infinitely old in some sense. The Bible indicates this I think (Psalm 90:2). So if God had this problem, He would have gone insane with boredom (Isaac Asimov, interestingly enough, wrote a short story based on called "The Last Answer"). But, if you believe the Bible, God is quite OK.

I believe God can handle eternity because God's happiness is very different to ours in its fundamental nature. God's happiness is a kind of eternal happiness we have no experience of in this world, apart from through the peace of the Holy Spirit, if Christianity is to be believed.

So I think that an eternity of successive moments in the New Heavens and New Earth will be a good thing because we will have access to God's kind of happiness, sidestepping the common concern about such a fate.

Rom 14:17: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,"

1 Cor 2:9: "However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him""

Psalm 16:11: "You will make clear to me the way of life; where you are joy is complete; in your right hand there are pleasures for ever and ever."

Psalm 36:7-8: "How precious is your unfailing love, O God! All humanity finds shelter in the shadow of your wings. You feed them from the abundance of your own house, letting them drink from your river of delights. For you are the fountain of life, the light by which we see."

 

[ShaunJ72]

Hi GakuseiDon

I think we could agree that there must almost be an infinite numbers of ways to waste one's life, and that any measurement would of course be hopelessly subjective. Let’s not even go there.

I think the point I was trying to make was that spending any length of time speculating about the parameters of heaven is a bit pointless (and therefore wasteful in many senses) as of course the details of heaven, even if you choose to believe in it, are permanently unknowable to those with access to the internet.

In terms of your point about being afraid of dying, as a species we always have been and always will be, and afterlife beliefs are largely a product of this fear. Fundamentalists regularly rush joyously towards oblivion, and show little fear because of their blind faith in their God and what they have been promised will await them in the afterlife. If you were somehow able to remove the 72-virgins-in-paradise-carrot out of the Islamist suicide bomber equation, there would be far less willing suicide bombings and the world would be a much better place. The Christian Right and their apparent hunger for Rapture also deserve a mention here, but that is probably best left to another day.

People with less extreme religious views clearly use the prospect of heaven as incentive and psychological comfort, which is the main point I think. If Christians feel somewhat protected from this natural fear of death and the idea of oblivion because of their belief in heaven that is great for them, but I believe that it would not harm anyone to ponder how closely the two are linked.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism and any other organised religion in history you care to mention: every single one of them has clearly defined but contradictory myths and beliefs about a heaven or an afterlife, from Valhalla to the Christian heaven, to widespread reincarnation beliefs and lots more. They can’t all be true(?).

If a fear of death and the unknown is not the answer, what explanation would you offer for why such a disparate range of cultures and faith systems so willingly embraced, and often continue to embrace, such strong beliefs in an afterlife for the righteous?

 

[GakuseiDon]

Hi GakuseiDon

I think we could agree that there must almost be an infinite numbers of ways to waste one's life, and that any measurement would of course be hopelessly subjective. Let’s not even go there.

Well, you were the one who said that this life "is too short to waste". If "waste" cannot be measured objectively by any atheist standard, then such a statement is meaningless. OTOH the Christian can talk about wasted lives, or at least wasted opportunities.

I think the point I was trying to make was that spending any length of time speculating about the parameters of heaven is a bit pointless (and therefore wasteful in many senses) as of course the details of heaven, even if you choose to believe in it, are permanently unknowable to those with access to the internet.

I agree completely there. The Christian needs to focus on this life. Not sure what the atheist feels they need to focus on, though.

In terms of your point about being afraid of dying, as a species we always have been and always will be, and afterlife beliefs are largely a product of this fear. Fundamentalists regularly rush joyously towards oblivion, and show little fear because of their blind faith in their God and what they have been promised will await them in the afterlife. If you were somehow able to remove the 72-virgins-in-paradise-carrot out of the Islamist suicide bomber equation, there would be far less willing suicide bombings and the world would be a much better place. The Christian Right and their apparent hunger for Rapture also deserve a mention here, but that is probably best left to another day.

That's right.

People with less extreme religious views clearly use the prospect of heaven as incentive and psychological comfort, which is the main point I think. If Christians feel somewhat protected from this natural fear of death and the idea of oblivion because of their belief in heaven that is great for them, but I believe that it would not harm anyone to ponder how closely the two are linked.

True. Still, I just don't see how one can be a Christian and fear death. Fear pain and suffering, definitely. But not death.

Maybe some believe because they fear death, but once they believe, why continue to fear it? That motivation should drop away.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism and any other organised religion in history you care to mention: every single one of them has clearly defined but contradictory myths and beliefs about a heaven or an afterlife, from Valhalla to the Christian heaven, to widespread reincarnation beliefs and lots more. They can’t all be true(?).

I agree. But as we've already determined, not much point in pondering the imponderable.

If a fear of death and the unknown is not the answer, what explanation would you offer for why such a disparate range of cultures and faith systems so willingly embraced, and often continue to embrace, such strong beliefs in an afterlife for the righteous?

Encounters with the Numinous, people seeing the spirits of their dead, etc. Whether the Numinous exists as an objective reality, or whether spirits exist, doesn't matter. People have always believed things about what happens after death.

It's possible that some of it is motivated by fear of death, but I can't see any reason to assume that this is the case. Many Christians become Christians when they are young, and when thoughts of their own mortality are still far from their minds.

 

[darknova]

As Heraclitus said “No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.”You don’t have to really worry about repeating events because everything is in flux, even you. There is no limit to the number of experiences to have because you are always changing/evolving your perspective of a constantly changing universe.

I think this applies when thinking about time in the universe, but in eternity it seems everything will happen over and over again. For example if we assume that heaven is made of atoms of some kind, there are only so many different combinations of positions those atoms can have. Over hundreds of trillions of years or more every possible future can be repeated.

There may be an answer to think, I don't know.

I don't see it as going to come down to things repeating but the current emotional/mental states of the people. It’s not that there won’t be anything new; it just won’t be interesting to do for the person. Not to be too hokey but I think if the person has love in their life, then anything less than eternity won’t do.

I don't think my problem is so much with being bored. But like if you try to imagine your consciousness continuing forever it is impossible. The fact that we can't imagine it doesn't make it wrong, but it seems our minds naturally want an end point.

I’m optimistic but I have a sci-fi influence going on. I root for the utopia turnout instead of the dystopia future. I think since you have a good mental picture of how much time we are dealing with you can see how much progress we still have left to make as a species, (if a disaster doesn’t get us early). Man figuring out how to overcome death doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility within the next millennium. After that, even if it takes a million more years to figure out how to retrieve information from the past, eventually they are going to figure a way to bring back lost loved ones back.

You base this on science rather than God?

It might make sense for human minds to be put into robots which wouldn't age. I wonder if those people would be happy living on earth without end.

 

[ElijahW]

I think this applies when thinking about time in the universe, but in eternity it seems everything will happen over and over again. For example if we assume that heaven is made of atoms of some kind, there are only so many different combinations of positions those atoms can have. Over hundreds of trillions of years or more every possible future can be repeated.
There may be an answer to think, I don't know.

The afterlife (resurrection) continues on within the same universe; I’m not sure if we are on same sheet of paper with that.

You hurt my brain a little bit thinking about this and the notion that I’m going to be able to put forward any useful information is questionable.

First thing I would consider is the possibility of an evolving universe. The universe has a beginning and is growing so there are no atoms returning to a particular previous position. Say the pill came out tomorrow that stopped aging and you had to make a go at eternity. As long as you’re alive the universe can’t return to how it was before you. That’s a major specific evolution that you can imagine but the universe can be seen as constantly making these small evolutions which prevent it from returning to its previous state.

Second remember that you change. Say that the universe at some point collapses back on itself and starts over exactly the same way, while you survive. The experience for you this time through will be totally different. Not only because this time you’ll be a trillion years old but you’ll be seeing it from a totally different point of view and journey.

Also with the atom example; maybe consider trajectory and velocity greatly multiplying the improbability of the universe repeating. Imagine three atoms moving at different speeds in different directions. If by nature of the universe, eventually one of the atoms travels around until it reaches the initial point, there is almost no chance of one, much less both, of the other atoms being at their initial points. If by chance, for a millisecond, everything was the same as it was at a previous point in the universe; that doesn’t mean that the next moment will be the same unless all the trajectories and velocities were the same as before.

I don't think my problem is so much with being bored. But like if you try to imagine your consciousness continuing forever it is impossible. The fact that we can't imagine it doesn't make it wrong, but it seems our minds naturally want an end point.

The infinite is alien to the mind, for sure. And I think this is something that you could feel even stronger about at a billion years old, when you really have a grasp what living forever would mean. But as long as your current living situation is giving you positive feedback and you have a positive outlook, then you should be able to keep on going, even though the idea of eternal life is beyond your ability to imagine. It may end up helping you.

You base this on science rather than God?
It might make sense for human minds to be put into robots which wouldn't age. I wonder if those people would be happy living on earth without end.

The idea of the resurrection of the dead comes from Jesus but how I think it happens comes from seeing the potential of technology being tapped into and not seeing any sign of telekinesis (faith). In olden times, prophets couldn’t imagine the technology we see today so instead reasoned that humanity advancing in mind-over-matter would be the key to bringing everyone back. Still may be the case… I’ll try to move this pen real quick… nothing. Signs still point to technology.

Maybe not happy with Earth but there are stars to explore once we figure out this dying deal.

 

[ShaunJ72]

GakuseiDon

This is a quick response because I have to run out to do something this afternoon, but will try to respond more fully at some point this weekend.

Developing a realistic understanding of why every culture and faith system invariably develops its own complicated and contradictory beliefs about an afterlife (or any thing else for that matter) is NOT imponderable, although I look forward to hearing your reasons why it is.

To make this easier, lets take Christianity out of the equation. It doesn't deserve special treatment, but for the sake of this I am not asking you to consider your religion.

Now, From the ancient Egyptians to Norse Mythology, To the pantheistic belief systems held by the Ancient Greeks and Romans, to all the past religions based around re-incarnation and thence to all the other modern faiths that flourish to varying degrees now, while, of course, not forgetting every religion which withered and died in the meantime.

They ALL have (or had) strong beliefs in some kind of afterlife, they all contradict eachother. Most or all of them must be utterly wrong about this, and not one ever has a scrap of evidence to back up their claims. Personally, I believe they are all wrong, and any believer in, say, one of the Monothheistic religions, believes completely that all the other religions have it all wrong.

If you give any kind of credence to an alternative belief system then it surely contradicts and undermines your own. How many Christians believe that Buddhists are actually reincarnated? How many Buddhists believe that there is an eternal Hell and a Heaven? There isn't room for both.

This is not unknowable or imponderable. Even if one religion has it spot on, the rest are barking completely up the wrong tree and you cannot argue with that logic; so working out why every religion (accepting that most, or dare I say all - except for Christianity of course!) have to be completely WRONG about their version of an afterlife, is not that difficult when you start to look at our species' strong psychological need for there to be something else.

It is far from Imponderable.

 

[GakuseiDon]

If you give any kind of credence to an alternative belief system then it surely contradicts and undermines your own. How many Christians believe that Buddhists are actually reincarnated? How many Buddhists believe that there is an eternal Hell and a Heaven? There isn't room for both.

This is not unknowable or imponderable. Even if one religion has it spot on, the rest are barking completely up the wrong tree and you cannot argue with that logic; so working out why every religion (accepting that most, or dare I say all - except for Christianity of course!) have to be completely WRONG about their version of an afterlife, is not that difficult when you start to look at our species' strong psychological need for there to be something else.

It is far from Imponderable.

That they contradict each other makes them all wrong is obviously not good logic. And if it is far from imponderable, then it becomes a simple matter: tell me which ones are wrong, and why.

 

[Adoniram]

If one is fortunate enough to be chosen to experience what God has in store for believers in heaven, I don't think the length of eternity will be a concern. You worry about it now because you are thinking about it from a human perspective, and with the limitations of the human experience. But the Apostle Paul explains in 1 Cor. 15 that, in essence, we will no longer be human. Along with completely perfect bodies built especially to reside in heaven, our perspective will also be changed into one able to appreciate the wonders of that heavenly and eternal existence.

1 Cor. 15
47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “ O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.