Is Harry Potter Evil? (2)

[Danyc]

"I saw it in a dream: the enemies of Christ shouting out their sins like proud battle cries mocking the children of God."

This is in quotes so it's not originally by JW; who said this?

Also, I'm a Christian, so I don't think I would be mocking myself

That would just be silly

 

[JWNEWMAN]

[QUOTEIt follows logically that if there is a harmless outlet that pedophiles partake in, there will be less of the actual then there was before. If a pedophile is doing one thing he is not doing another at the same time. Thus, it follows logically that a pedophile who has a harmless outlet is less likely to take out his desires on kids, if he can take out his desires on fantasy.[/QUOTE]

There is no following of logic in the above. If one repeatedly imagine an act one will seek an opportunity to fulfill it. Control the content of your thinking and you control your actions. Let them go unbridled through fantasy and you will likely find an opportunity to live them out.

Right. And it's up to our parents to help us control our thoughts; that's what parents do, after all. When a parent does their job properly, children need not be worried about HP.

Right, and Christian parents should advise their children to stay away from anything that calls evil good. Witchcraft is evil.

Albeit an introduction that introduces a topic as very much laughable and nonsensical.

The credence given, the subconscious suggestion, is it must have validity, it's being taught in a school. Sneaky.

Right, the tone. Children generally do not appreciate being called babies, though.

I like being called baby. Depending on who's saying it and the reason. Concede that I use it as an endearing term.

 

[Dannager]

Any behavior is correctable if a person turns to God.

Yes, I'm sure that the pious ones who continually asked God for help simply didn't pray hard enough.

A compulsion is predicated by a thought which repeated culminated in an act, which repeated became a compulsion.

No.

The real test would be to have a face to face conversation.

I don't think that would be especially productive, JWNEWMAN.

 

[Dannager]

There is no following of logic in the above. If one repeatedly imagine an act one will seek an opportunity to fulfill it. Control the content of your thinking and you control your actions. Let them go unbridled through fantasy and you will likely find an opportunity to live them out.

No, JWNEWMAN. That's not how that works.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Haha, those who disagree with you are enemies of Christ now?

Glad I could make you laugh! It's good for the heart.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

No, JWNEWMAN. That's not how that works.

Yes D, that's how it works. Everything we do is based upon what we think.

 

[Dannager]

Yes D, that's how it works. Everything we do is based upon what we think.

Oh boy.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

I don't think that would be especially productive, JWNEWMAN.

It would be quite interesting I think. It would be instructive.

 

[Dannager]

It would be quite interesting I think. It would be instructive.

You can be instructive online.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Oh boy.

As a man thinks so is he. Thoughts create feelings. Feelings empower actions.

 

[Danyc]

There is no following of logic in the above. If one repeatedly imagine an act one will seek an opportunity to fulfill it. Control the content of your thinking and you control your actions. Let them go unbridled through fantasy and you will likely find an opportunity to live them out.

There is. It makes perfect sense; experts in the field agree with me and Dannager. You say if one repeatedly imagines an act, one will carry it out. Not so, even with pedophiles. You don't seem to understand that in taking out their sexual desire by watching little children in animations, it curbs their then-and-there desire to interact directly with children in the real world. It is exactly like masturbation:

Most masturbation is done while fantasizing about having sex; this is pretty much fact. The one who is doing the deed takes out their sexual desire through masturbation; when they are finished, the desire is gone, for then. It will probably come back up, but they can touch, it's no problem.

This analogy is perfect.


As a sidenote, here's a passage from Wikipedia on the treatment of pedophilia:
Treatment

A number of proposed treatment techniques for pedophilia have been developed. In 1981, writer David Crawford reported that the success rate of these therapies was very low.[47] Crawford's article did not address the use of Depo-Provera, today the most common drug used to decrease libido in sex offenders. Dr. Fred Berlin, founder of the Johns Hopkins Sexual Disorders Clinic, believes pedophilia can "indeed be successfully treated," if only the medical community would give it more attention.[20]
British inventor Adam Hildreth developed a computer program to catch internet sex offenders who pose as children. The software analyzes the user's language patterns in comparison to his age. Adults use more sophisticated phrases and punctuation than children in writing, and so the software can identify adults who pretend to be children. [48]

Medical therapies

Anti-androgenic medications such as Depo Provera may be used to lower testosterone levels, and are often used in conjunction with the non-medical approaches above. (This is commonly referred to as "chemical castration.") Gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogues, which last longer and have less side effects, are also effective in reducing libido and may be used.[49]
Other programs induce an association of illegal behavior with pain by means of the more controversial aversion therapy, in which the pedophile is given an electric shock while fantasizing.[50] A study by the Council on Scientific Affairs found that the success rate of aversion therapy was parallel to that of homosexual reparative therapy; that is to say, extremely low.[51] This method is rarely used on pedophiles who have not offended.
Convicted sex offenders, including many pedophiles, have been treated by the psychosurgical procedure commonly known as lobotomization. Psychosurgery has long been controversial, particularly the historical use of surgical intervention on homosexuals given that homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness by the psychiatric community (see for instance Rieber et al. 1976;[52] Sigusch 1977;[53] Rieber & Sigusch 1979;[54][55] Lobotomies are generally no longer practiced and are prohibited in a number of countries.
Thalamotomy is an alternative surgical treatment of sex offenders in practice since the problems with leucotomy have been commonly known (see Greist 1990;[56] Diering & Bell 1991;[57] Hay & Sachdev 1992;[58] Rappaport 1992;[59] de la Porte 1993;[60] Poynton 1993;[61] Bridges et al. 1994;[62] Cummings et al. 1995)[63] and is increasingly advertised as an "effective therapy" for sex offenders (as well as for some children suffering from symptoms of child sexual abuse, since the 1980s (see for instance Andy 1970;[64] Bradford 1988a;[65] Wyre & Swift 1991;[66] Abel et al. 1992;[67] Bridges et al.[62] Cummings et al. 1995).[63] As Levey and Curfman have noted, however, given the availability of psychopharmacological treatment options, psychosurgical interventions are not likely to be employed given their extreme side effects and irreversible nature. See the same article for an in depth review of treatment options and diagnostic criteria. Additionally Reid 2002 writes that neurosurgery for sex offenders is "essentially unavailable" in the United States and that data on its use is sparse.[68]
Klaus M. Beier of the Institute of Sexology and Sexual Medicine at Charité, a large university hospital in Berlin, Germany, reported success in a preliminary study using role-play therapy and medicine. According to researchers, the pedophiles were better able to control their urges once they understood the pre-pubescent youth's view.[69][70] Schorsch & Schmidt 1979) 1994;

The credence given, the subconscious suggestion, is it must have validity, it's being taught in a school. Sneaky.

It's being taught in a school by a teacher who everyone thinks is a total fraud; other teachers think the same way. McGonogall, one of the more influential instructors, disapproves.
You do not think children are smart enough not to be interested in something when it is called laughable and stupid, but you give them enough credit to rationalize that because it's in school, it must have validity, even when the teacher herself, and other teachers at said school, believe it to be rubbish?

You have a strange view of children's minds.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

You can be instructive online.

Face to face it's easier to gauge character. People seem extremely brave online. I often wonder if the same is true in person. I doubt it for most of us. The illusion of anonymity is most powerful.

 

[Danyc]

Face to face it's easier to gauge character. People seem extremely brave online. I often wonder if the same is true in person. I doubt it for most of us. The illusion of anonymity is most powerful.

There isn't an illusion of anonymity; we really are anonymous. At any rate, Anonymity causes our true selves to shine through; we don't have as much fear when talking about other people online. It would be less productive to talk offline than it would be to talk online.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

There is. It makes perfect sense; experts in the field agree with me and Dannager. You say if one repeatedly imagines an act, one will carry it out. Not so, even with pedophiles. You don't seem to understand that in taking out their sexual desire by watching little children in animations, it curbs their then-and-there desire to interact directly with children in the real world. It is exactly like masturbation:

Most masturbation is done while fantasizing about having sex; this is pretty much fact. The one who is doing the deed takes out their sexual desire through masturbation; when they are finished, the desire is gone, for then. It will probably come back up, but they can touch, it's no problem.

This analogy is perfect.


As a sidenote, here's a passage from Wikipedia on the treatment of pedophilia:
Treatment

A number of proposed treatment techniques for pedophilia have been developed. In 1981, writer David Crawford reported that the success rate of these therapies was very low.[47] Crawford's article did not address the use of Depo-Provera, today the most common drug used to decrease libido in sex offenders. Dr. Fred Berlin, founder of the Johns Hopkins Sexual Disorders Clinic, believes pedophilia can "indeed be successfully treated," if only the medical community would give it more attention.[20]
British inventor Adam Hildreth developed a computer program to catch internet sex offenders who pose as children. The software analyzes the user's language patterns in comparison to his age. Adults use more sophisticated phrases and punctuation than children in writing, and so the software can identify adults who pretend to be children. [48]

The article you quoted doesn't report using animation of despicable acts resolves anything. What is the point?

It's being taught in a school by a teacher who everyone thinks is a total fraud; other teachers think the same way. McGonogall, one of the more influential instructors, disapproves.
You do not think children are smart enough not to be interested in something when it is called laughable and stupid, but you give them enough credit to rationalize that because it's in school, it must have validity, even when the teacher herself, and other teachers at said school, believe it to be rubbish?

You have a strange view of children's minds.

If there is a category in a school which is being taught, the fact that it is given this credence, regardless of public opinion gives it credence on a subconscious level.

 

[Tenebrae]

Face to face it's easier to gauge character. People seem extremely brave online. I often wonder if the same is true in person. I doubt it for most of us. The illusion of anonymity is most powerful.

Not in this case


I'd say the exact same thing to your face

 

[Danyc]

The article you quoted doesn't report using animation of despicable acts resolves anything. What is the point?

Just fuel for your and Dannager's discussion

You two had been talking about the treatment of pedophilia so I provided some material for you to go off of
*shrugs*

If there is a category in a school which is being taught, the fact that it is given this credence, regardless of public opinion gives it credence on a subconscious level.

You'd have to give me a psychologist's opinion on this.

 

[Danyc]

Yay, It's almost time for Is Harry Potter Evil? (3) ! !

 

[Tenebrae]

Yay, It's almost time for Is Harry Potter Evil? (3) ! !

What are we going to do tonight Harry?


Why Hermione, the same thing we do every night, try to take over the world

Yea ok, some bad humour


It just amuses me that we are almost up to thread three and I still have yet to hear a coherant arguement what Harry is so bad

 

[Dannager]

The article you quoted doesn't report using animation of despicable acts resolves anything. What is the point?

I'm fairly certain he was citing some sources illustrating that traditional treatment methods to control social deviancy (and compulsions in general) are often unsuccessful, to say nothing of effectiveness in "fixing" the problem entirely. It's interesting to note that reparative therapy is mentioned in the article as having similarly dismal success rates - and reparative therapy often includes faith-based therapy.

 

[Danyc]

I'm fairly certain he was citing some sources illustrating that traditional treatment methods to control social deviancy (and compulsions in general) are often unsuccessful, to say nothing of effectiveness in "fixing" the problem entirely. It's interesting to note that reparative therapy is mentioned in the article as having similarly dismal success rates - and reparative therapy often includes faith-based therapy.

Quite right; conversion therapy, it's also called.