LDS Is grace a blessing?

[He is the way]

This is similar to the man-mandated works (as opposed to works of charity) that the Reformers objected to.

Why did the reformers object to the works of charity?

 

[Andrewn]

Why did the reformers object to the works of charity?

They didn't object to works of charity. They objected only to man-mandated works that the popes considered necessary for salvation like mandating 7 sacraments, pilgrimage to the Vatican, buying indulgences, etc.

 

[He is the way]

They didn't object to works of charity. They objected only to man-mandated works that the popes considered necessary for salvation like mandating 7 sacraments, pilgrimage to the Vatican, buying indulgences, etc.

Okay I must have misunderstood what you said.

 

[Rescued One]

You said: "Every single gift we receive is a blessing! He died for us while we were sinners!:"

A gift is NOT a blessing, Grace is a gift, NOT a blessing. Blessings are given to those who act in faith such as praying for something, being humble, keeping the commandments, etc...

Per Mormonism:
Eternal life, the greatet gift of God, is a blessing.

And apparently you want to deny that, in Mormonism, grace is based on obedience.

D&C 130:20-21 states: There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated--And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

Therefore grace can't be called a blessing according to you (He is the way). But that doesn't solve the problem.

Ephesians 2:8-9; “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Joseph Smith apparently didn't like those verses. He want people to distrust the Bible, so he changed that truth to a lie.

2 Nephi 25:23; “23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God;for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

“The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life.”
Mormon Apostle Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2006, p.42

The Bible, which is the true word of God, tells us that eternal life is a gift.

In Mormonism, eternal life and exaltation are the same:
“Exaltation is available only to righteous members of the Church of Jesus Christ; only to those who accept the [LDS]gospel; only to those who have their endowments in holy temples of God and have been sealed for eternity and who then continue to live righteously throughout their lives”
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness [1969], 246

What is exaltation?
Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.
Chapter 47: Exaltation


President Lorenzo Snow taught: “When two Latter-day Saints are united together in marriage, promises are made to them concerning their offspring that reach from eternity to eternity. They are promised that they shall have the power and the right to govern and control and administer salvation and exaltation and glory to their offspring, worlds without end. And what offspring they do not have here, undoubtedly there will be opportunities to have them hereafter. What else could man wish? A man and a woman, in the other life, having celestial bodies, free from sickness and disease, glorified and beautified beyond description, standing in the midst of their posterity, governing and controlling them, administering life, exaltation and glory worlds without end” (Deseret News, 13 Mar. 1897; quoted by Spencer W. Kimball in The Miracle of Forgiveness [1969], 246)...
Lesson 10: Eternal Marriage

D&C 130:20–21. What Is the Law on Which All Blessings from God Depend?
Obedience is the basic law of heaven, and obedience to specific laws will result in specific blessings, culminating in the greatest blessing, as Elder Marion G. Romney explained: “The perfection upon which exaltation hangs, I repeat, is an individual matter. It is conditioned upon the observance of celestial laws as they apply to earth life. The Word of Wisdom is one of them, so also are chastity, tithing, observance of the Sabbath day, prayer, honesty, industry, love of God and fellow men, patience, kindness, charity, and all the rest of the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Each individual who observes one or more of these laws shall receive the blessings predicated thereon, and each Church member who will, with all the energy of his soul, diligently strive to live them all, shall receive the blessings predicated upon such striving. Eternal life, the greatest gift of God, is that blessing, and it will follow the living of the gospel as the night the day, regardless of statistics or averages, or of what others think or say or do.”
(In Conference Report, Oct. 1956, pp. 15–16; see also Enrichment G in the Appendix.)
“Section 130, Items of Instruction,” Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual
Section 130, Items of Instruction

 

[Hrairoo]

The definition of grace is something that really messed me up during my time as a Mormon. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance and doublespeak related to defining the terms and outlining how Christ's love is delivered.

The condition of grace, as outlined in 2 Nephi 25:23, is that you're still expected to try your hardest in everything in order to qualify for the gift. Yet without grace, we would not be able to meet God's standards of perfection.

Have you heard the parable of the bicycle? A modern day allegory thought up by Steven Robinson in his book Believing Christ where he spends over 200 pages trying to lead you through the gordian knot of the Mormon conception of grace.

"A young girl wants to buy her own bike. Her father suggests that if she works and saves her money, they will go buy a bike. The two eventually go to the store, and the girl discovers that she does not have enough funds to buy the bike on her own. Her father then agrees to make up the difference."

My experience with grace in the LDS church was to take it seriously when they say no unclean thing may enter the house of the Lord. That grace is merely a tool that enables repentance, which is a continuous process that starts with identifying sin committed, praying and working to make amends, getting spiritual confirmation from God that you have labored and struggled sufficiently, then ending with taking the sacrament on each Sunday to symbolically baptize yourself again. And that's for minor sins, like being rude one time, having a dirty thought, cursing, borrowing something without asking, etc. More serious sins you have to include your Bishop in the process in which case, when you get spiritual confirmation from God that you've struggled with the spirit sufficiently, you have to get confirmation from your Bishop that yes, indeed, you have met the required amount of sorrow and humility over the sin in order to be considered forgiven.

The idea of LDS repentance says that it is a transformative process, that it is not enough to say you're sorry and move on. It is meant to be a change in your character and your life. Yet they acknowledge that our earth life will always be plagued by sin. You won't escape your unconscious desire to sin until you die, when your spirit is separated from the natural man inherent in your body of flesh. So, for someone who serves Christ in your word and deed, who tries his hardest to live as He lived, you still fall short of worthiness continuously because of your flawed nature making you do little things that are impure or naughty or distempered. This results in someone who is otherwise a good person, a disciple of Christ who serves his fellow man with love and humility, feeling guilty and shamed and unclean all the time.

And exhausted. I was plagued by a constant Sisyphus task of being vigilant over myself and being sorrowful over falling for small temptations. Because once you find that the big sins no longer hold any weight or temptation for you, it has to be the small ones you must purge continuously. Line upon line, right? It was exhausting knowing that I could always do more.

 

[He is the way]

According to the Bible salvation is for the obedient:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

His people obey Him and keep the commandments:

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 7:23)

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Christ expects us to keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:1 - 5)

1 WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The way to the kingdom of God is made known:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:12 - 14)

12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Jesus Christ gave us the formula for eternal life:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

What is the whole duty of man:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[Rescued One]

The definition of grace is something that really messed me up during my time as a Mormon. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance and doublespeak related to defining the terms and outlining how Christ's love is delivered.

The condition of grace, as outlined in 2 Nephi 25:23, is that you're still expected to try your hardest in everything in order to qualify for the gift. Yet without grace, we would not be able to meet God's standards of perfection.

Have you heard the parable of the bicycle? A modern day allegory thought up by Steven Robinson in his book Believing Christ where he spends over 200 pages trying to lead you through the gordian knot of the Mormon conception of grace.

"A young girl wants to buy her own bike. Her father suggests that if she works and saves her money, they will go buy a bike. The two eventually go to the store, and the girl discovers that she does not have enough funds to buy the bike on her own. Her father then agrees to make up the difference."

My experience with grace in the LDS church was to take it seriously when they say no unclean thing may enter the house of the Lord. That grace is merely a tool that enables repentance, which is a continuous process that starts with identifying sin committed, praying and working to make amends, getting spiritual confirmation from God that you have labored and struggled sufficiently, then ending with taking the sacrament on each Sunday to symbolically baptize yourself again. And that's for minor sins, like being rude one time, having a dirty thought, cursing, borrowing something without asking, etc. More serious sins you have to include your Bishop in the process in which case, when you get spiritual confirmation from God that you've struggled with the spirit sufficiently, you have to get confirmation from your Bishop that yes, indeed, you have met the required amount of sorrow and humility over the sin in order to be considered forgiven.

The idea of LDS repentance says that it is a transformative process, that it is not enough to say you're sorry and move on. It is meant to be a change in your character and your life. Yet they acknowledge that our earth life will always be plagued by sin. You won't escape your unconscious desire to sin until you die, when your spirit is separated from the natural man inherent in your body of flesh. So, for someone who serves Christ in your word and deed, who tries his hardest to live as He lived, you still fall short of worthiness continuously because of your flawed nature making you do little things that are impure or naughty or distempered. This results in someone who is otherwise a good person, a disciple of Christ who serves his fellow man with love and humility, feeling guilty and shamed and unclean all the time.

And exhausted. I was plagued by a constant Sisyphus task of being vigilant over myself and being sorrowful over falling for small temptations. Because once you find that the big sins no longer hold any weight or temptation for you, it has to be the small ones you must purge continuously. Line upon line, right? It was exhausting knowing that I could always do more.

It is amazing to have you here verifying everything that I was taught! Thank you so very, very much! In all these years, noone as been so astoundingly helpful.

God bless you, brother!

 

[Rescued One]

According to the Bible salvation is for the obedient:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Christ expects us to keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:1 - 5)

1 WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The way to the kingdom of God is made known:

God makes it known:
1 John 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

John 14
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Titus 3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


MORE OF JESUS
LESS OF ME

John 3:30

 

[He is the way]

God makes it known:
1 John 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

John 14
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Titus 3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


MORE OF JESUS
LESS OF ME

John 3:30

Great scriptures, still they do not nullify any of the scriptures I posted. The victory is to overcome the world through living faith. We overcome the world by keeping the commandments of LOVE.

 

[Rescued One]

Great scriptures, still they do not nullify any of the scriptures I posted. The victory is to overcome the world through living faith. We overcome the world by keeping the commandments of LOVE.

We overcome the world by the faith that God gave us! Not by our works which can't be done without Him.

Faith is a gift! You misinterpret the Bible multiple times a day. Your interpretation is anti-biblical. No, the Bible can never be nullified. It can be disbelieved, criticized and misinterpreted as Joseph Smith and millions of Mormons did/do.

Christians love Jesus. If they claim to be Christians and don't love Him, they are liars.

We are told to not follow false Christs. Doing that is a slap in the face to God.

Christians have living faith and eternal life.

 

[Rescued One]

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Christians obey Him because He made then new creatures (not by works of righteousness which they have done, but according to His mercy.)

Verse 9 does not say that anyone is saved by obedience; that is a Mormon lie.

 

[He is the way]

We overcome the world by the faith that God gave us! Not by our works which can't be done without Him.

Faith is a gift! You misinterpret the Bible multiple times a day. Your interpretation is anti-biblical. No, the Bible can never be nullified. It can be disbelieved, criticized and misinterpreted as Joseph Smith and millions of Mormons did/do.

Christians love Jesus. If they claim to be Christians and don't love Him, they are liars.

We are told to not follow false Christs. Doing that is a slap in the face to God.

Christians have living faith and eternal life.

Faith without works is dead faith:

(New Testament | James 2:14)

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

(New Testament | James 2:20)

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[He is the way]

Christians obey Him because He made then new creatures (not by works of righteousness which they have done, but according to His mercy.)

Verse 9 does not say that anyone is saved by obedience; that is a Mormon lie.

Verse 9 is a Biblical truth:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

His people are those who obey Him and keep the commandments:

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 7:23)

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

We are to do the will of the Father:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:12 - 16)

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

(New Testament | Matthew 7:21)

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Rescued One]

The Christian God NEVER gave and will never give anyone dead faith!!! Every good and perfect gift is from our God from Whom all blessings flow. We shall have no other gods before Him!

"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is
stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee." (Isaiah 26:3)

"And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:7)

“I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior. I have revealed and saved and proclaimed — I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.”
(Isaiah 43:11-12)

 

[He is the way]

The Christian God NEVER gave and will never give anyone dead faith!!! Every good and perfect gift is from our God from Whom all blessings flow. We shall have no other gods before Him!

"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is
stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee." (Isaiah 26:3)

"And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:7)

“I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior. I have revealed and saved and proclaimed — I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.”
(Isaiah 43:11-12)

We choose to obey God and LOVE our neighbor or have dead faith. Those who LOVE God will keep His commandments. Those who choose not to keep the commandments are on shaky ground:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:24 - 27)

24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Rescued One]

We choose to obey God and LOVE our neighbor or have dead faith. Those who LOVE God will keep His commandments. Those who choose not to keep the commandments are on shaky ground:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:24 - 27)

24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Dead faith isn't the faith that God gives His adopted children.

 

[Rescued One]

Those who LOVE God will keep His commandments.

Those who have been set free, and truly LOVE God obey Him solely to bring glory to Him! All glory belongs to God. Without Him we can do nothing.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Those who choose not to keep the commandments are on shaky ground:

Those who choose not to keep the commandments are followers of Satan.

(New Testament | Matthew 7:24 - 27)

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Psalm 127:1
A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

 

[He is the way]

Dead faith isn't the faith that God gives His adopted children.

Dead faith is a choice that people make by disregarding the commandments of LOVE!

 

[He is the way]

Those who have been set free, and truly LOVE God obey Him solely to bring glory to Him! All glory belongs to God. Without Him we can do nothing.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.



Those who choose not to keep the commandments are followers of Satan.



Psalm 127:1
A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

(New Testament | Luke 8:21)

21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

(New Testament | James 1:22)

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

(New Testament | John 8:43 - 51)

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

 

[Rescued One]

Dead faith is a choice that people make by disregarding the commandments of LOVE!

People LOVE when God gives them a new heart!

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.