Is God's "Free" Gift of Salvation Really Free?

GabrielTheWorshipper

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Isn't God's gift infinitely more valuable than $1,000? Therefore, doesn't it have an infinitely greater obligation?

God tells us that we are only his now IF we continue. And I don't believe we can lose salvation, so I see it less like we have to do it to keep salvation and more like it is what we do because we are saved and have the Holy Spirit. I don't mean to come off as argumentative, especially since I just hopped in the middle here and don't fully understand everything that has been discussed. I'm just stating my views on the matter.
 
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faroukfarouk

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No. It would be a bit rude not to, but it's not an obligation, the gift did not come with the requirement of receiving a thank you card.
The Epistle to the Romans begins and ends with references to 'the obedience of faith'; 'obedience to the faith'. This is a work of God in the heart and not meritorious, but the attitude of heart does matter; the Lord knows our hearts when we might say we want to receive His free gift of justification by faith in the Lord Jesus and His Work at the Cross for sinner.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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what I was trying to say is that we don't do that as part of a two-way deal.

I am not saying that it is a two-way deal, BUT we are obligated. "For you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body." (1 Corinthians 6:20)

I'm Reformed, and the biggest grace guy you will ever meet, but I have become convinced that al gifts come with an obligation.
 
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Albion

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I am not saying that it is a two-way deal, BUT we are obligated. "For you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body." (1 Corinthians 6:20)

I'm Reformed, and the biggest grace guy you will ever meet, but I have become convinced that al gifts come with an obligation.
In my view, you are indeed treating it as a two-way deal so long as you insist that there's an obligation put on the recipient. No, it's not based on an agreement made in advance, but it's still a "this for that" proposition that you're describing.

My point again is that those who have received saving Faith are changed by it and so do what a changed person naturally would do. If you were given wings by God all of a sudden, I presume that you'd fly. But that isn't to say that you recognize some obligation that falls upon you and so you do your best to return the favor in some way or show your appreciation by performing certain acts.
 
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drayanna

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I'm not arguing that salvation can be earned, but my question has to do with a Christian's obligation to God for His gift of salvation.

Does the reception of God's gift create an obligation for us? Are we obligated to give something in return for having received the free gift of God?
If I give you a dog for free is he a free gift?
Don't get me wrong. Jesus ' s gift is beyond a free dog however the concept is that if I give you a dog you have to feed it. You have to teach it, you have to walk it...
This takes time and money.
What do you get out of that free dog that doesn't seem so free at the vet office?
Unconditional love
Trust
Protection

Now is the gift of Jesus sacrifice free?
Well yes it was at His cost for he didn't have to give it. He could have said "your not worth my time"
So yes free. But if you love Jesus, then you stop thinking about self pleasure and begin to do what the Holy Spirit with in you wants.

If you know what He has done it just comes naturally.
But if you hate the free gift and don't want to feed it, walk it....well you never really received the Holy Spirit for its all you need.

As I told my kid, I loved him enough to wipe his butt and I will love Jesus more than that if I can or am asked.
 
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faroukfarouk

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I believe anyone in that situation would from the desire of their heart to be kind and grateful. Just like how we should love and serve God. We love him because he first loved us and saved us, just like we would thank you for that gift.
Great verse there! :)
 
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jimmyjimmy

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In my view, you are indeed treating it as a two-way deal so long as you insist that there's an obligation put on the recipient. No, it's not based on an agreement made in advance, but it's still a "this for that" proposition that you're describing.

My point again is that those who have received saving Faith are changed by it and so do what a changed person naturally would do. If you were given wings by God all of a sudden, I presume that you'd fly. But that isn't to say that you recognize some obligation that falls upon you and so you do your best to return the favor in some way or show your appreciation by performing certain acts.

You are too Protestant to hear my point. You are so fearful of the heresy of works-salvation that you can't hear what I'm saying, which is definitely NOT that I earn salvation.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Why does Paul say that we have an "obligation"?

So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live, For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Romans 8:10-14).
 
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TaylorSexton

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The "should not" means that it is conditional.

This is not a correct understanding of this passage; it's not your fault, but rather the translation you chose. That's the problem with translations: they can't (or don't, as is the case here) always communicate clearly what the Greek says (and, in this case, what it does not say).

The phrase you quoted ("should not perish") is translating a subjunctive clause, not a conditional clause. Conditional clauses in Greek are marked by conditional particles (εἰ, ἄν, and ἐάν), all of which are absent from this passage. Subjunctives function in many ways depending on the grammatical context. This subjunctive here in John 3:16 is marking not a conditional clause, but a purpose clause, which is indicated by the conjunction ἵνα. Because of this, the subjunctive here would be better rendered "will not perish" because it is a purpose clause, not a conditional clause. The ESV, KJV, and NKJV have, in my opinion, failed to render this in its fullest clarity. "Should" in English (which, depending on context, has its own variety of functions) is too vague a term to use with the subjunctive case here.
 
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Albion

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You are too Protestant to hear my point.
That hardly seems likely. But it's an interesting theory that says Anglicanism is more Protestant than Presbyterianism. :astonished:

You are so fearful of the heresy of works-salvation that you can't hear what I'm saying, which is definitely NOT that I earn salvation.

Wow. Did you ever miss the point completely. And I never said a word about you supposedly earning salvation. I have no idea where you got that! ;)
 
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jimmyjimmy

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That hardly seems likely. But it's an interesting theory that says Anglicanism is more Protestant than Presbyterianism. :astonished:



Wow. Did you ever miss the point completely. And I never said a word about you supposedly earning salvation. I have no idea where you got that! ;)

If I've missed your point, you've missed mine, as well.
 
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drayanna

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Why does Paul say that we have an "obligation"?

So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live, For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Romans 8:10-14).
When I joined the United States Navy I had a obligation to be where they wanted me, how they wanted me, and when...
They asked one time to sit and look pretty. They asked me to reach in murky water to tie off a boom. No matter what they asked it was expected and agreed to that I would do what the United States Navy needed done. Some things were difficult to comply to others were fun and exciting.
But no matter what I wanted it did not matter to them for I was there's by contract. I gave up myself to be used in whatever was needed by my country.
In like manner I am obligated even more so to my Savior for without Him I don't know how to be. Without Him I am nothing. With Him I am loved, with Him I am adopted child of God. I work for Him. I signed the contract and it is unbreakable.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Nothing free about surrendering the very will of your life to something that your five senses cannot detect. But it is freely offered with the benefit of being called "the righteousness of God!"

Doug

This is the point. If we able to work to earn our salvation, we would be "employees" with rights. We could demand what we've worked for, and complain about working conditions. . . However, if salvation is by grace, God can, and does, demand ALL from us.
 
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Tree of Life

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So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live, For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Romans 8:10-14).​

I can't tell if you're using Scripture to disagree with what I've said or to support it. Could you clarify the connection?
 
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jimmyjimmy

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When I joined the United States Navy I had a obligation to be where they wanted me, how they wanted me, and when...
They asked one time to sit and look pretty. They asked me to reach in murky water to tie off a boom. No matter what they asked it was expected and agreed to that I would do what the United States Navy needed done. Some things were difficult to comply to others were fun and exciting.
But no matter what I wanted it did not matter to them for I was there's by contract. I gave up myself to be used in whatever was needed by my country.
In like manner I am obligated even more so to my Savior for without Him I don't know how to be. Without Him I am nothing. With Him I am loved, with Him I am adopted child of God. I work for Him. I signed the contract and it is unbreakable.

First, thank you for your service to our country. Second, thank you for perfectly explaining the point I was trying to make us think about when I started this thread. You've nailed it.
 
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Stephen Douglas

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Our responses crossed. We are not only obligated to Christ after regeneration, we totally belong to Him. Call it obligation if you like.

"Do you not know that your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit"?

So many passages that inform us to count the cost of totally surrendering to Christ. It involves denying self to take up our cross to follow him.

Doug
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Our responses crossed. We are not only obligated to Christ after regeneration, we totally belong to Him. Call it obligation if you like.

"Do you not know that your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit"?

So many passages that inform us to count the cost of totally surrendering to Christ. It involves denying self to take up our cross to follow him.

Doug

Yes, and amen.
 
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