Is God outside of Time?

[tobewan]

Joey & all: Why are we here? To live and learn, to have a measure of life, which would be of no use or purpose ( except pro-creation), if God had not pre-planned a time to stop death and dying, and to begin a resurrection of all who have lived and died, to be under the control/rule of His Only-begotten Son , who came, who earned the right, and to whom God gave the right.
Many Bible Students are aware that this current “Time of trouble” is leading to that very time.

 

[tobewan]

It is totally illogical to think that there was a time when time didn't exist -- passage of time must ALWAYS exist. I Realize that this is outside our finite minds ability to conceive.
SPACE AND TIME has ALWAYS existed! It's a stark reality to us, but REAL.

 

[ebia]

It is totally illogical to think that there was a time when time didn't exist -- passage of time must ALWAYS exist. I Realize that this is outside our finite minds ability to conceive.
SPACE AND TIME has ALWAYS existed! It's a stark reality to us, but REAL.

There's no time before time. But time does have a beginning.

 

[tobewan]

Hi Ebia: your words: "There's no time before time. But time does have a beginning."
Guess that somehow is preferable to you to want to believe. It again shows finite thinking.
To want time to be conceived as having a beginning, and perhaps an ending, like if the Sun burns out way in the future, and its plausable that our Sun had an ignited beginning when God set it place for our earth, with its intended blessing for us.
Yet, its terribly hard to conceive of time as not always being, because for Space to exist, time must exist, and as there is no end to the boundless space, there is no end or beginning for time.
Makes perfect and preferable and logical sense to me.
Same way, for God to have no beginning, for his existence, time must exist. Best to all.

 

[ebia]

Hi Ebia: your words: "There's no time before time. But time does have a beginning."
Guess that somehow is preferable to you to want to believe. It again shows finite thinking.
To want time to be conceived as having a beginning, and perhaps an ending, like if the Sun burns out way in the future, and its plausable that our Sun had an ignited beginning when God set it place for our earth, with its intended blessing for us.
Yet, its terribly hard to conceive of time as not always being, because for Space to exist, time must exist, and as there is no end to the boundless space, there is no end or beginning for time.
Makes perfect and preferable and logical sense to me.
Same way, for God to have no beginning, for his existence, time must exist. Best to all.

Both space and time are finite. Sorry. Go check with some physicists.

 

[tobewan]

Time and existence are the same thing -- nothing can exist without the passage of time.

Space being endless, had no beginning and has always existed. That's purely logical.

What exists throughout the Universe may have had different beginning according to when they were created.

PS: The Big Bang didn't happen. Read the book "In the Beginning" by Walt Brown, get via Amazon.

 

[ebia]

Forget the third rate waffle and go learn some physics.

 

[gluadys]

Space being endless, had no beginning and has always existed. That's purely logical.

That's why the logical Greeks believed it. The Bible tells us existence (and therefore space and time) had a beginning.

That may not be purely logical, but it is both theological and physical reality.

Space is not endless. Boundless yes, but finite. It has not always existed. It was created. To describe space as endless and always existing is to deny the truth of the first statement of scripture.

 

[lucaspa]

It is totally illogical to think that there was a time when time didn't exist -- passage of time must ALWAYS exist. I Realize that this is outside our finite minds ability to conceive.
SPACE AND TIME has ALWAYS existed! It's a stark reality to us, but REAL.

Illogical, perhaps, but that is what the data says. Time began at the Big Bang. We don't have words to describe the situation "prior" to the Big Bang, because our language is embedded with the concept of time.

What you are stating is the atheistic position of Aristotle. According to Aristotle, there are 2 possibilities: the universe did not always exist and therefore had to have been created or the universe has always existed and therefore does not need a creator. The second position is, of course, atheistic.

But the stark reality is that space and time did not always exist. Our universe had a beginning. Now, what saves atheism as a valid is that there are other possible causes for that beginning other than deity. We can't tell what the cause of the origin of the universe is via science. Gluadys has accurately stated the Christian position of belief.

 

[lucaspa]

Time and existence are the same thing -- nothing can exist without the passage of time.

Space being endless, had no beginning and has always existed. That's purely logical.

PS: The Big Bang didn't happen. Read the book "In the Beginning" by Walt Brown, get via Amazon.

Space is not endless. It is finite. Space has been expanding since the Big Bang. Walt Brown is a YEC and doesn't like the Big Bang. Despite that fact that many atheists don't either. Read the book The Big Bang Never Happened by Eric Lerner. If you want a creationist perspective, go to www.reasons.org and you will find Hugh Ross stating that only atheists deny the Big Bang!

 

[tobewan]

GLUADYS: quote:"Space is not endless. Boundless yes, but finite. It has not always existed. It was created. To describe space as endless and always existing is to deny the truth of the first statement of scripture."
And you probably believe everything was created in six literal 24 hour days.
The earth own geographical history testifies to a length of time for it's development.
Get Real!

 

[ebia]

GLUADYS: quote:"Space is not endless. Boundless yes, but finite. It has not always existed. It was created. To describe space as endless and always existing is to deny the truth of the first statement of scripture."
And you probably believe everything was created in six literal 24 hour days.
The earth own geographical history testifies to a length of time for it's development.
Get Real!

Rotflol

 

[tobewan]

By LUCASPA, Space is not endless. It is finite. Space has been expanding since the Big Bang. Walt Brown is a YEC and doesn't like the Big Bang. Despite that fact that many atheists don't either."
Which indicates you haven't read Walt Browns book, if you think he is Atheist..
What does YEC stand for?

 

[gluadys]

"Space is not endless. Boundless yes, but finite. It has not always existed. It was created. To describe space as endless and always existing is to deny the truth of the first statement of scripture."

And you probably believe everything was created in six literal 24 hour days.
The earth own geographical history testifies to a length of time for it's development.
Get Real!

LOL! Go to my profile and look up some of my previous posts.

 

[tobewan]

Gen 1:1 In the beginningH7225 GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) the heavenH8064 and the earth.H776
““In the beginning”
H7225
ראשׁית
rê'shı̂yth
ray-sheeth'
From the same as H7218; the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.

“the heaven”
H8064
שׁמה שׁמים
shâmayim shâmeh
shaw-mah'-yim, shaw-meh'
The second form being dual of an unused singular; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): - air, X astrologer, heaven (-s).

“In the beginning”is a simple statement not meant of the universe at large, but of that which pertains the earth, as part of its preparation of earth for the human creation he planned and their inhabitation here. Far too much is read into the Creator’s simple statement.

People who say they take the Bible word for word, don’t actually follow that, as they admit but cringe at having to allow some must be symbolic.

The heaven may refer to the swaddling bands surrounding the earth in its early formative stage. (Per Vailian theory).

 

[shernren]

Hang on buddy:

Logically, God didn't create himself, but he did create the Logos (the Word).

Are you serious? This statement alone puts you entirely outside the ken of orthodox Christian theology. And this isn't just an academic nitpicking, since understanding the preeminence of the Trinitarian Godhead above anything created is crucial to a proper understanding of Christian theism.

 

[philadiddle]

nothing can exist without the passage of time.

Are you saying God cannot exist without time?

Space being endless, had no beginning and has always existed. That's purely logical.

Everyone knows that's wrong, I suspect you're trolling.

What exists throughout the Universe may have had different beginning according to when they were created.

Beginning? Created? Didn't you just say that it always existed?

PS: The Big Bang didn't happen. Read the book "In the Beginning" by Walt Brown, get via Amazon.

Nobody was saying that Walt Brown was an atheist. They said he was a YEC (Young Earth Creationist).