Is God merciful

[pro_odeh]

I see that this discussion has turned into a vegetarian discussion, so allow me to return to the original question, is god merciful?



Kristijan, I can understand how you can picture God not merciful if you look at the Bible the way you do; completely worthless. I don’t know where you got the idea that the Bible was altered many times by kings or whatever to make the faith suit them better. The Bible is The Word of God. Jesus fought evil with verses, and He used the scriptures to back up everything He said. This was the OT. It had been around from the beginning so to speak. But it wasn’t changed. it was the same all the time. Now, why would we have to change the scripture now? it is impossible to change The Word of God. Why?



John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.



He is the same, and He is the Word. So the Word cant change, and the Bible is the word of God, so it cant change..





Humans are egoistic. It is the nature we have gotten because we live in this sinful place. What we have such a hard time dealing with is that why did God place me here? It was Adam and Eve that committed the first sin, not me. So all the sinning I do, is their fault..

but from Adam and Eve came all humanity. We are their flesh. If we were in their place, we would have done the exact same thing. So putting the blame on someone else does not work with God..



The next question is, do you sin? of course you do. Everyone does. But God is perfect, He does not tolerate sin. So because we are sinners, we cannot be with Him. We would die. So as long as we are sinners, we cannot be with God, no matter how much He wants us there. This seems like an impossible problem, but our all-powerful God came up with a cure. The perfect life that humans have to live. He did that for us. Not only that, but He took the penalty for it to. So, now God made it so that we could be with Him again, through Jesus. He paid the price. What we have to do is to except the life Jesus lived. He has already served the penalty, so we are free to go, sin free. And we can be with God. You have to agree that that is mercy!



Where we seem to look at God as unmerciful is those who will not accept. God tells them, here you go, its free, you can have it. take it. please, come back to me, I love you more than you can ever imagine. but they tell Him, no. they refuse to be with God. they don’t want it. And they don’t want their sins removed. So they get their will.. they get to live forever where God is not present, and looking out for them. in hell.



Now, why doesn’t God make these people believe in Him if He loves them so much?

Well, picture this. A teenage son has a perfect family that love him. but he doesn’t want to be there, he cant stand his parents. so he runs away from home. he destroys the house, say the worst possible things to his parents, and hurts them in all possible ways. But the father forgives him.

On his own the kid breaks all laws possible, he even kills, rapes, murders, and steals. the father pays everything, and he takes the life sentence on the kids behalf (he even dies for him). The kid still hates his father, and does not want to come back. But the father has the door open, so whenever the kid wants to come home, he is allowed to.

but what if the kid never wants to come home? he refuses. is it loving of the father to kidnap him, force him home, and tie him up in the basement, because that is what’s best for him?

As you said, its not loving to force anything on anyone. even if we do it out of love..





But the big questions are those who never get to hear about Jesus in their entire life. babies that die. what about them? will they be sent directly to hell?

Paul says in Romans that those who did not see or hear will believe. But I cant tell you how God runs things, only He knows. If you wish to believe that those people get another chance after death or something like that, I guess you can. But know that there is no scriptural evidence for this, so we cannot say that it is a fact in Christianity. I pray that they might get a chance, but I don’t think so.

Jesus also said let the small children come to me, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to those like them. He also told us to have faith like a child. Does that mean that all children are automatically saved? I don’t know, only God does. We cant picture that small children, innocent can be sent to hell. But they are born sinful, so without excepting Christ, they cannot be saved.

But a child does not believe like us. Maybe all children have Jesus in their heart when they are born, but if this faith is not renewed, or nurtured, it will die...
All people are created with a calling from God. We all search a religion, a place to find peace with our creator, and so on. This is God calling on us. We can refuse this calling, or except it. Paul also talks about the law being imprented into all humans. We all have a conscience. We know what is wrong or right. I believe that people who have not heard about Jesus, will be judged in the same way as people were judged before Jesus came to earth.



When it comes to children, unreached people and so on, the Bible doesn’t tell us much. Maybe because these people wouldn’t get to read the Bible anyway?

All we know, is that Jesus is the ONLY way, the truth and the life, and that no one can be saved otherwise.





After reading all of this, you might get the impression again, where is that loving God? But before we give our whole life to Him, we cannot fully know Him. I noticed that you said that we need no hell, we can just be reborn in another place on the earth... but I would have to disagree there.. hell is not like anything we can imagine. it is to be away from God. We cannot imagine how much that hurts. that pain. any life would be paradise compared to that.

It is an unfair world we live in, no doubt. but that is because the lord if this world is an unfair lord. satan. the sin we commit, that is what makes everything so wrong! take away all the sin in the world, and what are you left with? paradise!



Many things have been done in Jesus' name, that are not His will at all. But that goes for all religions. People with power will always try to use religion to control the people. But as long as you have a personal relation with God, and you know the Bible, you will not be fooled. Choosing from the Bible out of your own satisfaction is not going to work. There is only one truth, and we cannot choose parts of it. then it is no longer a truth.





But remember, God loves you, me and everyone in this world. He would do anything for you, and He has! He will let you live with Him for ever, even if we don’t deserve it. He calls us His children, and will give us everything we need. We just have to let Him do it. If you let Jesus touch your heart the way He has touched so many, you will understand the love I am talking about. I pray that you will see God, as the mercy He is, and follow Him all your life!

God bless you so much!



In Christ, Paul.

 

[kakudmi]

I wish you've said something more substantial, with more logic and less sentiment.
Your letter is weak and your faith seems blind. You follow Bible half ignorent hoping it works. You don't know much about God, heaven, hell, this world, this body, and yet you seems to think you deserve to be saved. You sound like a burden, unqualified to be saved and taken to a place you know nothing about.
You have ignored my letters about vegetarianism because they make sense to you and you have used to practice religion withou real philosophy and sense.

I haven't heard ONE logical and truly philosophical answer to my questions and chalenges. Maybe there's no qualified Christian scholar on this forum, just laymen supporting each other's ignorence.

That is not how God wanted us to be. He doesn't keep us ignorent. He wants us to understand Him cause only that way we will be able to go back.

Ignorance is the quality of matter. Cherish it and you'll never get out of here.

Dear pro_odeh, please forgive me if I sounded a little harsh to you. I wasn't really pointing all these critics to you personally but to all who think this way.
If I have offended you in any way, please try to forgive me.

In search of God,
Kristijan

 

[Christi]

I think you sounded harsh which doesn't lead to understanding, either way. To understand ALL minds must be open (including yours), and feel free to relate their own understanding, as we all have. You are intelligent and maybe you are searching.........it sounds as if your mind is made up, though. It would be easier to dialogue with you without the insults, though. I feel far too ignorant to participate in this thread anymore, but I hope someone can give you the answers you are looking for.

 

[kakudmi]

Yes Christi, I agree. And I apologize for that.
It's probably due to my frustration that other resources, in fact, all but Christians, offer me more informations about God, more logical and comprehensive details about our relationship with Him and with this world, that I'm tempted to believe that there's no other way to be a faithful Christian but to be ignorant and not wanting to know more that what today's Bible studies are offering.

It is sad though, that Christians are the loudest when it comes to bashing others for their believes, claiming that the Christianity is the only way for the entire Cosmos, yet they fail to provide any evidence, both hard and soft, when important questions are asked. All they do is rely on the sentiments of people, feelings and emotions, and that my brothers is not what seroius religion is all about.

Religion without philosophy (knowledge) = fanaticism

Philosophy (knowledge) without religion = mental speculation

Both of those are useless and lead nowhere.

At the end, I find Christianity to be the perfect religion for masses and simple, ignorant people, where blind faith is required, fueled with fear caused by threats and where sacred scriptures are easily misinterpreted, where everything is described in a vague way so that it can be molded according to the time, place and circumstances.

I urge every reader to get serious about Jesus and God. Find the right way cause death is breathing at our necks and it could happen to us any minute, although we don't like to think that way, and if we don't want to be in for a big surprise at that moment of our lives, we better get our philosophy and believes straighten up and we better know what's coming our way.

I was properly baptized, communioned and confirmed as a Christian, raised in that sprit. I have studied Bible for a few years, and trust me people, wherever I go to ask the questions I've asked in this forum I always get simmilar quarter-answers that don't make sense both to me or to people who provide them.

Just like many of you said, "I know this might not be the answer to your question...."
every Christian or Catholic faces the same problem with their faith; It often doesn't make any sense. But we're thought that we're not supposed to understand everything and that we're not perfect and that we should abandon the process of reasonable thinking and understanding God and His ways and we should just believe in our Saviour and will be saved.
But remember, just because you feel secure behind such philosophy doesn't mean you're really safe. That is laziness of spirit. Someone has paid, let's take advantage of it.

Thank you all for listening,
God bless you and give you more strenght to move forward instead of nowhere.

Yours in God,
fr. Kristijan

 

[Christi]

Yes Christi, I agree. And I apologize for that.
It's probably due to my frustration that other resources, in fact, all but Christians, offer me more informations about God, more logical and comprehensive details about our relationship with Him and with this world, that I'm tempted to believe that there's no other way to be a faithful Christian but to be ignorant and not wanting to know more that what today's Bible studies are offering.

I said I wasn't coming back, but I actually like you and I think you ask important questions. I feel that you arrogantly assume all Christians are ignorant and blind, while you have the truth. That annoys me.

It is sad though, that Christians are the loudest when it comes to bashing others for their believes, claiming that the Christianity is the only way for the entire Cosmos, yet they fail to provide any evidence, both hard and soft, when important questions are asked. All they do is rely on the sentiments of people, feelings and emotions, and that my brothers is not what seroius religion is all about.

This is a huge generalization. What do you want, exactly?

Religion without philosophy (knowledge) = fanaticism

Philosophy (knowledge) without religion = mental speculation

Both of those are useless and lead nowhere.

At the end, I find Christianity to be the perfect religion for masses and simple, ignorant people, where blind faith is required, fueled with fear caused by threats and where sacred scriptures are easily misinterpreted, where everything is described in a vague way so that it can be molded according to the time, place and circumstances.

You are sporting a Christian icon and yet you seem to claim a higher knowledge than the rest of where Christianity is the perfect religion for "masses and simple, ignorant people, where blind faith is required, fueled with fear ..........etc, etc."

I take offense to that because everyone comes to God as they are....we all have a different experience of Him, and He relates to us as individual creations. You seem to be implying that your experience of Him is true, while no one else's is. For the record, I don't believe you mean it that way, but I think it inhibits the enlightening discussion you are looking for.

I urge every reader to get serious about Jesus and God. Find the right way cause death is breathing at our necks and it could happen to us any minute, although we don't like to think that way, and if we don't want to be in for a big surprise at that moment of our lives, we better get our philosophy and believes straighten up and we better know what's coming our way.

I know this better than most. I don't disagree. I will say that I don't believe our eternal destiny will be determined by our mistakes in our philosophical beliefs, but rather our faith in our Creator and Savior. I

I was properly baptized, communioned and confirmed as a Christian, raised in that sprit. I have studied Bible for a few years, and trust me people, wherever I go to ask the questions I've asked in this forum I always get simmilar quarter-answers that don't make sense both to me or to people who provide them.

Welcome to the real world, people don't always do or think or believe what we'd like. Even other Christians. It's part of the whole "unconditional love" thing. Imagine how irritated Jesus was with, not only the religious leaders and the "lost", but His own disciples. Yet, He loved them, even though they didn't understand the whole picture.

Just like many of you said, "I know this might not be the answer to your question...."

You seem to be enlightened. IS God merciful? Has He shown you mercy?

every Christian or Catholic faces the same problem with their faith; It often doesn't make any sense. But we're thought that we're not supposed to understand everything and that we're not perfect and that we should abandon the process of reasonable thinking and understanding God and His ways and we should just believe in our Saviour and will be saved.
But remember, just because you feel secure behind such philosophy doesn't mean you're really safe. That is laziness of spirit. Someone has paid, let's take advantage of it.

I think that if we let our lack of understanding limit us, in our pursuit of God, then we will all be doomed.

Thank you all for listening,
God bless you and give you more strenght to move forward instead of nowhere.

Yours in God,
fr. Kristijan

Thank you for still trying. I wish we can all move forward, instead of nowhere, I think all Christians agree with at least that. I think we can ask honest questions about our faith and try to reach understanding or even civil disagreement without "bashing" others?

 

[kakudmi]

Thank you Christi for taking the time to read and to respond.

 

[shagcarpet]

listen, I used to believe god was merciful. I was a p.o.w. in vietnam until 6 years ago. There I ate unboiled rice and cockroaches every day. I'm a hermaphrodite, it was not my choice, but that is what I am. Before they let me go, my guard said something then laughed, They pulled my penis off with red hot pliars to make me "normal" as they stated. When I got home, my parents, who are radical liberals actually spit on me. I went to war without their consent. My father actually tried to kick me in the balls, but that was not possible. I could not get a job because I had no education, and I couldn't get gov't well fare becuase I was in vietnam so long that they claimed I was no longer a citizen. Later I was raped outside a bar by a large black man. I found at where he lived and killed his whole family. I didn't kill him, but I did neuter him. Needless to say I'm writing this from a minimum security prison. I'll be able to be out for bail in 2 more years. I've already waited 4. So if God is merciful, then I spit, I spit right in his face.

 

[repentandbelieve]

When a point of doctrine that you do not understand comes to you, go to God on your knees, that you may understand what is truth.

In your search for answers don't be found fighting against God. Have a teachable spirit, and be humble enough to accept truth however God chooses to send it.

God has given directions by which we may test every doctrine--"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Do not be so full of prejudice that you cannot acknowledge a point simply because it does not agree with your ideas.

Kakudmi, pray as you never before prayed for beams divine light to shine upon the word, that you may be able to understand its true meaning. Jesus pleaded that His disciples might be sanctified through the truth--the word of God.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God," Paul wrote, "a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." [2 TIM. 2:15, 16.]

Exercise the ability God has given you in order to learn what is truth. Search the Scriptures for yourself and look to God for divine enlightenment.

"The time will come," Paul wrote to Timothy, "when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." [2 TIM. 4:3-5.] "Sound doctrine" is Bible truth.

Some in Paul's day listened to the truth and raised questions of no vital importance, presenting the ideas and opinions of men, and seeking to divert the mind of the teacher from the great truths of the gospel, to the discussion of non-essential theories and the settlement of unimportant disputes.

Some passages of Scripture will never be perfectly comprehended until in the future life Christ shall explain them. There are mysteries to be unraveled, statements that human minds cannot harmonize. And the enemy will seek to arouse argument upon these points, which might better remain undiscussed.

 

[shagcarpet23]

I saw this and decided to ask my priest. He asked if I have sinnned, and I said yes, So he bare palm spanked me with my pants down. I cried, and he asked if he was merciful. He said it was far less than the pain of hell and so I said yes,
My name is Jordan and I'm 17

 

[kakudmi]

Some in Paul's day listened to the truth and raised questions of no vital importance, presenting the ideas and opinions of men, and seeking to divert the mind of the teacher from the great truths of the gospel, to the discussion of non-essential theories and the settlement of unimportant disputes.

Some passages of Scripture will never be perfectly comprehended until in the future life Christ shall explain them. There are mysteries to be unraveled, statements that human minds cannot harmonize. And the enemy will seek to arouse argument upon these points, which might better remain undiscussed.

Aww, brother. I thought I had clearly stated my disposition towards that kind of thinking.
I'm not impressed at all (but then again, who am I to be impressed).

Don't even try it on me anymore.

I guess, for you, I can be considered as a lost child.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Aww, brother. I thought I had clearly stated my disposition towards that kind of thinking.
I'm not impressed at all (but then again, who am I to be impressed).

Don't even try it on me anymore.

I guess, for you, I can be considered as a lost child.

It could be that the spirit which dwells in your heart cannot harmonize with the light given by God. You seem to be at war with the truth.

A knowledge of the truth depends not so much upon strength of intellect as upon pureness of purpose, the simplicity of an earnest, dependent faith.

He who has a sincere desire to know the truth, that he may obey it will find it.

A theoretical knowledge of the truth does not save us. We must come to know how sinful sin is and how much we need Jesus as a personal Saviour.
.

 

[kakudmi]

It could be that the spirit which dwells in your heart cannot harmonize with the light given by God. You seem to be at war with the truth.

A knowledge of the truth depends not so much upon strength of intellect as upon pureness of purpose, the simplicity of an earnest, dependent faith.

He who has a sincere desire to know the truth, that he may obey it will find it.

A theoretical knowledge of the truth does not save us. We must come to know how sinful sin is and how much we need Jesus as a personal Saviour.
.

Yes, well, I suppose your ignorance will save you. You sure hope that you will reach God without knowing who or what exactly He is, you hope your find the truth without knowing where to look and what to look for and you hope you have the required sincerity without even knowing the very definition of it.

You must be joking my brother, as your words do not resemble anything of a serious matter.



You strive for the topmost destination, hoping to spend the eternity there, and yet you claim no knowledge of such place is required before going there.

Do you suppose to vow to spend, say, 20 years in the country completely unknown by you? I think you'd want to know where you're going to spend such a long period of your life?

Well, eternity is a very long time and you have no idea what heaves is.



A woman is about to marry a person she knows nothing about; is he pretty or ugly, is he young or old, is he rich or poor, is he sick or well, or is he even a man or a woman. How reluctant you think she must be, going away to spend the rest of her life with the unknown.



You plan on spending your eternity with God and you're telling me you:

- don't care how He looks like,

-where does He live,

-what things He likes or dislikes,

-what does He do up there all day long,

-what does He eat and drink,

-how does He talk,

-what music does He listen,

-how does He like to be served

-what colors are His eyes and hair

-what kind of clothes does He wear



and you suppose He'd like to have you next to Him forever????



God does not need you until you get to know Him. You better start inquiring about Him in details cause you don't have that much time. What will He do with you up there? You'd be useless cause you have no qualifications.

You say you're sincere, but how do you know that? Who told you? You draw such conclusions yourself?

No one has seen Jesus! How do you know it exists, how do you know you're going to meet Him when you leave your body?

It nothing but a mere hope and a truckload of feelings you guys have !!

Don't you see that?



Your faith is based upon hope and feelings. You're like a gambler in Vegas, no more than that. He has no idea weather on not he will strike some luck, but he is hoping and he has a good feeling about this one, just like you, you see.



You can't possibly imagine how pale your philosophy looks in the eyes of modern men, especially the young ones. They despise this religion cause it offers nothing but hope and they simply don't settle for that. It offers no miracles; it offers no revelations and no logic whatsoever.



It is easy for you to survive on this philosophy until you're struck with the heavy loss and injustice, such as the people under the Tsunami wrath or the people of Iraq.

Your family and innocent children killed like insects, in a mere minute, all dead, and you ask your Lord, why, oh why my Lord did they deserve to die.



And you offer no digestible answers but just petty feelings such as: no one knows the ways of God. Be strong now because your Lord is trying you now, He is testing your faith.

Well fine, He's testing my faith, why didn't He crashed my car or a boat and not my 6 month old baby???

Yup, those kinds of replies you will get from the answers Christianity provides to those who were tested by God.

In any case, our God turns out to be a monster, unless we simply accept that anything that happens to us in a blessing and God is showing His mercy upon me, even if He murders just about everyone I know, even if they die in a most terrible way, tortured and slain, drowned and crushed, I'm to be thankful and use the opportunity to renew my faith in Him...



Well let me tell you, your blood thirsty God is not my object of worship cause those kinds of Gods one can find in plenty in Hindu religion and this one is no different.



But the Supreme Personality of Godhead is still going to be a mystery to you, because you don't know Him, thus you don't really love Him, therefore you won't reach His abode.



You consider the subject matters of cleanliness and compassion, the very pillars of religiosity, to be of no importance. I have proven to you that murdering animals for the pleasure of your tongue is sinful even in a most hedonistic sense, and what to speak of a religions one, and you have ignored every sentence as unimportant subject.



You kill without mercy your very brothers and sisters, the animals, with cold heart you won't even listen about it, and you hope God will have mercy on your soul?



You make yourself unclean with their agony and screams and you poison your body with their blood and fear and you hope God will accept you in His kingdom where every soul is pure and there is no violence in any way?



Well good luck to you, I hope you'll like the kind of heaven you aspire for with your actions and faith.



If you think I have been harsh, think of the punishment for murdering thousands of animals without ONE good cause.



And please, let's not fight over this. I assume you have strong faith in your believes and I haven’t stated mine which you probably are not interested in listening anyway, so let us part in debate and finish this sad story.



But if you claim to have any sincerity in your heart then perhaps you should start asking questions that are not presented in Bible. And trust me, the knowledge will not kill you.....



Sincerely,

Kristijan

 

[repentandbelieve]

And please, let's not fight over this. I assume you have strong faith in your believes and I haven’t stated mine which you probably are not interested in listening anyway, so let us part in debate and finish this sad story.



But if you claim to have any sincerity in your heart then perhaps you should start asking questions that are not presented in Bible. And trust me, the knowledge will not kill you.....



Sincerely,

Kristijan

The foundation of all acceptable service to God is love.

Only in the soul where love reigns will the peace of God abide.

"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father of him" (Col. 3:12-17).

 

[mamabear4]

In your first post, when you opened this thread, you stated that you're new to this faith and have some questions you'd like to have answered. Below you stated that you were baptized, communioned and confirmed as a Christian and raised in that spirit. You apparently came in here for answers to issues in your life and I am sorry that what I had to say seemed unkind and unloving to you. I urge you to study the Word of God for answers to your questions. I suggest reading several or all of the Scriptures below:

Ps. 119: 9, 11, 67, 71, 92, 105, 140 and 147.
Prov. 4:13, 13:13, and 16;20.
Jer. 23:29
Col. 3:16
Heb. 4:12

I was properly baptized, communioned and confirmed as a Christian, raised in that sprit. I have studied Bible for a few years, and trust me people, wherever I go to ask the questions I've asked in this forum I always get simmilar quarter-answers that don't make sense both to me or to people who provide them.

 

[pro_odeh]

I wish you've said something more substantial, with more logic and less sentiment.
Your letter is weak and your faith seems blind. You follow Bible half ignorent hoping it works. You don't know much about God, heaven, hell, this world, this body, and yet you seems to think you deserve to be saved. You sound like a burden, unqualified to be saved and taken to a place you know nothing about.
You have ignored my letters about vegetarianism because they make sense to you and you have used to practice religion withou real philosophy and sense.

First of all, i think my whole post was about humans not deserving to be saved. me aspecially. but if you understood otherwise, I am sorry.
The reason I didnt answer to the meat thing, was because we have to stick to the original questions, or the thread will be moved, so if you want to discuss this, you can start another thread. But just a short answer, read Romans 14.

I haven't heard ONE logical and truly philosophical answer to my questions and chalenges. Maybe there's no qualified Christian scholar on this forum, just laymen supporting each other's ignorence.

That is not how God wanted us to be. He doesn't keep us ignorent. He wants us to understand Him cause only that way we will be able to go back.

Ignorance is the quality of matter. Cherish it and you'll never get out of here.

hmm... you must have a strange sence of logic..
Of course God does not want us to be ignorant, but He does not expect us to understand everything about Him either! Jesus came for the weak ones, the ignorant ones, the sinners. We dont have to earn salvation, its free. and any fool can except it...

Dear pro_odeh, please forgive me if I sounded a little harsh to you. I wasn't really pointing all these critics to you personally but to all who think this way.
If I have offended you in any way, please try to forgive me.

I am not offended! But I am unsure of what you want. It seemes like you are not satisfied with what the Bible has to offer you.. If you dont take what is in the Bible as truth, you will never come to know God the way you want..

God bless, and good luck!