Is God merciful

[kakudmi]

I'm a new to this religion. I have a lots of questions. Is there anyone expert in christian philosophy who can answer some or all of it?

 

[Maynard Keenan]

I'm no expert but I can say that if God were not merciful we would be but pathetic subjects living in fear of our distant king. God MUST be merciful or we are like the hebrews, afraid of being smited and endlessly trying to please an unpleaseable god.

 

[kakudmi]

Oh, good. So, if He's all-mercifull, how come He aproves only 1 way and all others, unless converted, damned to all eternity?
Or did I get the philosophy wrong?

 

[Dukey]

I'm a new to this religion. I have a lots of questions. Is there anyone expert in christian philosophy who can answer some or all of it?

i can answer some of your questions

 

[Mustaphile]

Oh, good. So, if He's all-mercifull, how come He aproves only 1 way and all others, unless converted, damned to all eternity?
Or did I get the philosophy wrong?

Yep, your getting the philosophy wrong. Start with the premise that Jesus, the earthly incarnation of God, is the greatest example of God's mercy and work from there. The great revelation of Christianity is that we can draw many conclusions about God's nature from the nature of Christ, as it is God living on this Earth as both God and man. The beauty of Christ's life is that it illuminates both God and man, and directs all men to their own true nature and God's true nature at the same time. The four Gospels are the foundation of christianity because that is where we gain our revelation of Christ. It's necessary to continually meditate on the message contained in the four Gospels before you can have any chance of working through the rest of the New Testament without getting drawn way off course in regards to your understanding of it. Acts, Romans, the letters, the epistles and Revelations all draw upon a understanding of the nature of Christ and his life, death and ressurection. I think it's helpful too to try to understand the historical setting of Christ's life outside of many of the stereotypical images we find of Christ in modern day christianity, and really draw yourself into the whole history and context in which the life, death and ressurection of Christ took place. Much of what Christ was about is lost in the bland stereotypes we have today of Jesus the 'white caucasian guy' who died on the cross and rose again. I'm sure you can appreciate how interpreting Jesus from a modern context loses some of the message. He was a Jewish carpenter of Middle Eastern appearance, who lived in the context of Roman occupation of the nation of the Hebrews. His mother Mary didn't wear shiny blue silk robes and carry a set of rosary beads. These images, which do convey something to us by symbolising the values we find in the Gospel stories, are an abstraction of the real story, and in the act of abstracting we sometimes lose some of the detail. I hope this helps you in your search for the real Jesus, who as God incarnate, could have brought legions of angels down to protect him from the humilation and torture he suffered, but in his mercy and forgiveness, bore all that pain and suffering to be a witness to the way, the truth and the life we should all aspire to, and to be an example of God's love for his creation and his grace, mercy and forgiveness for all people.

 

[Subordinationist]

Oh, good. So, if He's all-mercifull, how come He aproves only 1 way and all others, unless converted, damned to all eternity?
Or did I get the philosophy wrong?

Gos is all-merciful, but He is also all justice. People who do not accept Jesus as Savior are damned because God is perfect and humans aren't. God requires perfection, because He is perfect, He cannot tolerate things that go against His nature (sin). And since every single human who has ever lived (besides Jesus) has sinned, he has broken the law of God and thus deserves punishment. This punishment is eternal because the human soul is eternal and cannot be destroyed. Jesus was the sacrifice for our sins, in reality it is US who deserved what was done to Jesus. He was sinless, and did not deserve death, and yet did receive it. This is in accordance with Judaism where God demanded pure lambs, undeserving of punishment, as a substitute for humans. Faith in Jesus' sacrifice is what saves us, not philosophy, rituals, the keeping of laws, good karma, meditation, i.e. works, which all other religions demand.

Some say that if God was truly all-merciful He would save everyone. But this would go against freewill, which God gave to us, and no one can take away but Him. He would not take it away because that would make us animals, and we would no longer be humans. As Morpheus said, "Everything begins with choice."



.

 

[repentandbelieve]

"And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The conditions of obtaining mercy from God are simple and reasonable. The Lord does not require us to do some grievous thing in order to gain forgiveness. We need not make long and wearisome pilgrimages, or perform painful penances, to commend our souls to the God of heaven or to expiate our transgression. He that "confesseth and forsaketh" his sin "shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13.

 

[Christi]

Oh, good. So, if He's all-mercifull, how come He aproves only 1 way and all others, unless converted, damned to all eternity?
Or did I get the philosophy wrong?

Because there IS only one way! HIM.

And throughout time, He's bent over backwards to forgive over and over again, and bring us to Him. He finally just opened the gates wide to everyone, and threw out all the rules but loving Him and loving each other.

If anyone gets damned to all eternity, it's because they'd rather be damned than love God enough to surrender and submit to Him. God doesn't damn us. We damn ourselves.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Because there IS only one way! HIM.

And throughout time, He's bent over backwards to forgive over and over again, and bring us to Him. He finally just opened the gates wide to everyone, and threw out all the rules but loving Him and loving each other.

If anyone gets damned to all eternity, it's because they'd rather be damned than love God enough to surrender and submit to Him. God doesn't damn us. We damn ourselves.

Amen!

The conditions of obtaining mercy from God are simple and reasonable. The Lord does not require us to do some grievous thing in order to gain forgiveness.

He says, "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and He will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon." "I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins." Isaiah 55:7; 44:22.

Mercy implies imperfection of the object toward which it is shown. When a person is blind to their own lost condition they are also blind to how merciful God is.

 

[CrownCaster]

I'm a new to this religion. I have a lots of questions. Is there anyone expert in christian philosophy who can answer some or all of it?

Can I suggest to you that you post this in a Christian only area as you will receive attacks from the enemy through this area of the board. God loves you and has much mercy for you. The very fact that feel good about placing that cross on your name means that you have accepted Jesus and therefore have been forgiven and given a place in His kingdom. That is mercy for we do not deserve it.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Can I suggest to you that you post this in a Christian only area as you will receive attacks from the enemy through this area of the board. God loves you and has much mercy for you. The very fact that feel good about placing that cross on your name means that you have accepted Jesus and therefore have been forgiven and given a place in His kingdom. That is mercy for we do not deserve it.

When you really stop and think about it, it is grace when someone recieves a gift they do not derserve. Mercy is not getting what they do deserve and grace.

Praise God, for He is both gracious and merciful.

 

[Randall McNally]

Gos is all-merciful, but He is also all justice. People who do not accept Jesus as Savior are damned because God is perfect and humans aren't. God requires perfection, because He is perfect, He cannot tolerate things that go against His nature (sin).

What's all this "God requires..." and "He cannot tolerate..."?

If God is a willful being, then He requires exactly what he wants to require, and He tolerates exactly what He wants to tolerate. Why, then, is God worthy of praise when He acts upon principles that He decided upon based on His own selfish reasons?

And since every single human who has ever lived (besides Jesus) has sinned, he has broken the law of God and thus deserves punishment.

But, somehow, this is the fault of all 30 billion-or-so historical humans, rather than their creator. Somehow.

This punishment is eternal because the human soul is eternal and cannot be destroyed.

There's the absolutist speech again - "...cannot be destroyed." So God couldn't destroy a soul if He wanted to?

Jesus was the sacrifice for our sins, in reality it is US who deserved what was done to Jesus. He was sinless, and did not deserve death, and yet did receive it. This is in accordance with Judaism where God demanded pure lambs, undeserving of punishment, as a substitute for humans. Faith in Jesus' sacrifice is what saves us, not philosophy, rituals, the keeping of laws, good karma, meditation, i.e. works, which all other religions demand.

Yet, somehow, mercy and grace and justice are embodied by a system that allows an innocent death in place of a guilty one. Somehow.

Some say that if God was truly all-merciful He would save everyone. But this would go against freewill, which God gave to us, and no one can take away but Him. He would not take it away because that would make us animals, and we would no longer be humans. As Morpheus said, "Everything begins with choice."

I don't think Morpheus was a Christian.

 

[kakudmi]

OK, I see you guys are pretty much convinced about Jesus being your saviour and all and that sounds great.

But here's my problem: Christi said: "Because there IS only one way! HIM.

And throughout time, He's bent over backwards to forgive over and over again, and bring us to Him. He finally just opened the gates wide to everyone, and threw out all the rules but loving Him and loving each other.
If anyone gets damned to all eternity, it's because they'd rather be damned than love God enough to surrender and submit to Him. God doesn't damn us. We damn ourselves."


What about, say, hindus, who believe in God in a different way, through karma and reincarnation they get chances over and over again to clean their souls from all the sins they have acumulated.
Or muslims, who believe in a similar heaven but only through Alah and Koran.
Some of these paths have been out there longer than Christianity, milleniums ago, they have been worshiping God in their own way.
Are you guys saying that God is merciful but He will send all of them to hell, forever, because they have not recognized Jesus as the ONLY way and have no intetions to do so in the future.
In fact, some of them might approach us Christians and try to convert us.
My problem is that as we believe that our Jesus is the only way for all mankind, others strongly believe that Alah is the only way, or Krishna is the only way or Buddha or whoever.
Their faith is as logical to them as ours is to us. They love God with same devotion we love Jesus. They have their own incarnations and prophets which they follow faithfully.
Am I to believe that God is rejecting them as pagans and all their love and devotion for Him he rewards with ETERNAL punishment in hell?

I need to understand this. Please help my ignorance.

Thanks.
Kristijan

 

[kakudmi]

Oh, and yes, before someone says that they are not worshiping God, well, they can say the same thing for us.
Seems like we cannot claim Jesus was sent for all people on earth for all time to come.

 

[pro_odeh]

Remember that we are all sinners. We all DESERVE to burn and be tormented in hell!
When we have that clear, then we can look at God as mercyful. God, the perfect being, creater of all things humbled Himself to a human, and lived the perfect life we should have lived, and took the punishment we should have gotten on Himself! That is what a I call a mercyful God! (You dont find that in any other religion).

The only way to enter the kingdom of heaven is to be perfect. sin free. But we are not! we are all sinners, and can never enter!! BUT, the life Jesus lived was perfect, and sin free. So through His life, we can enter. In Him (because He lived a perfect life). The are NO other ways.!!
This is not a problem that God created to make it harder for us to be saved. It is a solution to an impossible problem that man make for himself..!!
God bless!

 

[Randall McNally]

Remember that we are all sinners. We all DESERVE to burn and be tormented in hell!

Says who? God? And isn't it convenient that He just happens to have The Way Out?

When we have that clear, then we can look at God as mercyful. God, the perfect being, creater of all things humbled Himself to a human, and lived the perfect life we should have lived, and took the punishment we should have gotten on Himself! That is what a I call a mercyful God! (You dont find that in any other religion).

Basically, you're calling God merciful for not doing something according to some alleged rules He set up, but which He really had no intention of doing anyway.

 

[pro_odeh]

Says who? God? And isn't it convenient that He just happens to have The Way Out?

Would you find it more convenient to end up in hell?

Basically, you're calling God merciful for not doing something according to some alleged rules He set up, but which He really had no intention of doing anyway.

So thats what Im saying? hmm.. (I didnt really see that, sorry..)
What did God not do, or intend to do? make a way back to Him? Give us a cure to sin? take the punishment Himself? Follow the 'alleged rules' that He 'set up'?
Nope, God did all these things, and more!
I would encourage you, kakudmi, to post this in one of the only-christian places. So we dont have to face such comments as these. (no offence, Randall)
God bless!

 

[Randall McNally]

Would you find it more convenient to end up in hell?

No, but you missed my point. Forget it.

So thats what Im saying? hmm.. (I didnt really see that, sorry..)
What did God not do, or intend to do? make a way back to Him? Give us a cure to sin? take the punishment Himself? Follow the 'alleged rules' that He 'set up'?
Nope, God did all these things, and more!

Of course He did. He's God. He knew what He would do all along and presumably had no intention of doing anything else.

I would encourage you, kakudmi, to post this in one of the only-christian places. So we dont have to face such comments as these. (no offence, Randall)

No offense taken. Why makes you think my psyche is so fragile?

 

[pro_odeh]

No, but you missed my point. Forget it.

I got your point, I just didnt find it worth responding to..

Of course He did. He's God. He knew what He would do all along and presumably had no intention of doing anything else.

So is that a positive or negative thing, that He had in mind all along to make a way for salvation?

No offense taken. Why makes you think my psyche is so fragile?

There are just so many sensitive people here..
God bless!

 

[Maynard Keenan]

God made everthing, God made the rules, and if God made a rule that people deserve to burn in hell for following their nature, HE IS DAMNING US. People say sin is our nature and because we sin we DESERVE to burn in hell. So basically because we ae the way God made us, we deserve eternal torment. THAT isn't mercy.