If we can believe the Bible, God commanded Moses to stone a man to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. Moses obeyed the command. I picked up sticks last Sunday (and Saturday) but so far there has not been one attempt on my life. If God doesn't have me bumped off soon should I feel slighted?
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Is God Fair?
- Thread starter placebo
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royboy
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Depends on what type of christian you talk to. Some believe that the old testament was for the hebrews, and that jesus renewed the covenant for the non-hebrews.
So the old testament doesn't apply to you.
So the old testament doesn't apply to you.
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the_malevolent_milk_man
Well-Known Member
Still doesn't answer the question of were God's actions fair. Just because modern christian's don't have to obey the OT rules doesn't change the fact that people once did. God said/did some silly things in the OT that don't make much sense and are different from what he later says in the NT. Of course being an atheist I see the OT as being a violent and weird book where God smites somebody every other page for jay walking.
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If you believe in an all powerful God, then who are we to say what is fair and unfair? Do you think that He plays by our man-made ideals?
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the_malevolent_milk_man
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I'd like to see how he explains drowning the entire world because it was full of sin. Then next time the world was full of sin he just sent Jesus down to die for everybodies sins. Wonder how he, in his infinite wisdom and unwaivering resolve, could explain that away.
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LOLthe_malevolent_milk_man said:
I personally don't think He'd have to "explain anything away" to a living soul. If He did, would you have the infinite wisdom to understand it?People act as though God is going to have to answer their questions and explain Himself. Like He's on trial or something. They've got it totally backwards.
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the_malevolent_milk_man
Well-Known Member
Wether or not I fully understand is not the point, I'd just like to hear why he changed his tune and felt the need for a new covenant. Though there are a ton more questions I'd like to ask that one is towards the top.
And yes, God should explain himself. Otherwise i have no reason to believe since I don't do blind faith.
And yes, God should explain himself. Otherwise i have no reason to believe since I don't do blind faith.
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Oh man, believe me, I have a ton of them too...lots of what ifs and stuff from my own life as well.
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You would think that with the underpowered brain that God gave us, and the mixed message Bible that he sent us, that the least He could be is consistent with the application of his rules. For being such a smart Guy, He seems to be as confused as we are.
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Then who are we to say that god is just if we have no clue what "justice" means to god aside from acting on whim? In other words claiming that god is just is a lie acording to your circular logic. You have no standard to reach such a decision. So there you have it, a whim worshiping god.
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How is that circular logic? I've lost your point. If you believe the bible to be Gods word, He himself says He is just and true in that book. You are to take Him at His word.PoliticsForum said:
If my daughter asks why she can't eat candy all day, I tell her my reasons. When she continues to ask why (as all 4yr olds do) I tell her "Because Daddy said". She can't understand my logic even when I give her the direct answer. I never said we had NO clue as to what justice was. Simply that your idea of it and His are different.
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Interesting...this is my first time in a forum so cut me some slack if I suck.
As far as God wiping out a sinful world with a flood and then sending Jesus to save a sinful world ... is that fair? Sure. I think both are fair.
-Say you're in pottery class and you're making your mom a vase (ashtray). At first you're doing good, but then you decide it all jacked up. You smash it and start again (flood). It's your right as creator.
-Trying again, you're doing well, until...bingo, you decide it's all jacked up. Last time you smashed it, but promised not to do that again (rainbow). So instead you get a tool (Jesus) to help you work the clay. Much better.
If we are God's creation, then his right as creator defines "fair". If we are not God's creation, then we are the highest being in our universe and determine/define right, wrong and fair.
Therefore, the matter of "is God fair" is not a matter of defining "what is fair and does God follow that" but of "who defines what is fair".
As far as God wiping out a sinful world with a flood and then sending Jesus to save a sinful world ... is that fair? Sure. I think both are fair.
-Say you're in pottery class and you're making your mom a vase (ashtray). At first you're doing good, but then you decide it all jacked up. You smash it and start again (flood). It's your right as creator.
-Trying again, you're doing well, until...bingo, you decide it's all jacked up. Last time you smashed it, but promised not to do that again (rainbow). So instead you get a tool (Jesus) to help you work the clay. Much better.
If we are God's creation, then his right as creator defines "fair". If we are not God's creation, then we are the highest being in our universe and determine/define right, wrong and fair.
Therefore, the matter of "is God fair" is not a matter of defining "what is fair and does God follow that" but of "who defines what is fair".
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the_malevolent_milk_man
Well-Known Member
Well there is a pretty big difference between smashing an ashtray and drowning the entire world. It's like killing your kid for failing a spelling test in first grade, having another, and hoping it works out better this time.
As creator yes it is his right to do whatever the heck he wants. As a being capable of understanding logic I note that he's changing the rules by which he decides what to do. This would be fine and dandy for say the Roman gods who were much like humans in behavior. However for a supposedly all powerful, all knowing, infinitely loving God there is an irreconcilable problem. God can't be absolute if he's as fickle as a school girl when dealing with his creations.
As creator yes it is his right to do whatever the heck he wants. As a being capable of understanding logic I note that he's changing the rules by which he decides what to do. This would be fine and dandy for say the Roman gods who were much like humans in behavior. However for a supposedly all powerful, all knowing, infinitely loving God there is an irreconcilable problem. God can't be absolute if he's as fickle as a school girl when dealing with his creations.
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the_malevolent_milk_man
Well-Known Member
It should be noted that this arguement does not argue against the existence of gods/God, just the christian version.
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onionring said:
Dear onionring,
Are you saying that it was impossible for all-powerful God to spare the innocent infants and children when he wiped "out a sinful world with a flood"?
Or, did omnibenevolent God intentionally kill innocent infants and children?
The contradictions never end!
Commentary: It's pretty disgusting when anyone equates human life with a pottery class vase that can be thrown in the trash on a whim. It totally undermines their claims that God/Bible is the source of morality in the world.
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ZaraDurden
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I christian god surely is unfair...
Why would he create a world in which his existance is not evident in the least, then give us reason, and then send us to eternal damnation (hell fire brimstone and pain forever and ever) for using our reason to look at the world and not see him?
That's like jumping off a bridge because your friend told you to, and when you asked why you should do it, he said "because i said so".
Why would he create a world in which his existance is not evident in the least, then give us reason, and then send us to eternal damnation (hell fire brimstone and pain forever and ever) for using our reason to look at the world and not see him?
That's like jumping off a bridge because your friend told you to, and when you asked why you should do it, he said "because i said so".
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