Is God bigger than the Trinity?

[Jim B]

Up front, I want to say that I believe in the Trinity because, from my understanding of scripture, that is the way God has chosen to reveal Himself to us.

However, would it be wrong to say that God is more than Trinity. In fact, wouldn’t it be correct to say that the infinite God is incomprehensible to our finite minds. There seems to be so many wars fought over this Trinity/Unity thing that it could be, in the eyes of God, ludicrous. We are too willing to avoid fellowship because others who profess Christ do not share our Nicene view of the Trinity. Could we be guilty of putting the God of the Universe into a theological three-sided box? Is He that tiny?

I say, God is bigger than our Trinitarian concept of Him.

What do you say?

Jim

 

[Dad Ernie]

Up front, I want to say that I believe in the Trinity because, from my understanding of scripture, that is the way God has chosen to reveal Himself to us.

However, would it be wrong to say that God is more than Trinity. In fact, wouldn’t it be correct to say that the infinite God is incomprehensible to our finite minds. There seems to be so many wars fought over this Trinity/Unity thing that it could be, in the eyes of God, ludicrous. We are too willing to avoid fellowship because others who profess Christ do not share our Nicene view of the Trinity. Could we be guilty of putting the God of the Universe into a theological three-sided box? Is He that tiny?

I say, God is bigger than our Trinitarian concept of Him.

Greetings Jim,

Are you Oneness? There is no doubt that there is only ONE God, but He has chosen to reveal Himself as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each are distinct personages, each acts in a separate but cohesive function. At the moment Jesus is the Name above all names. It is by His Name we may obtain salvation. Until He has put everything under His feet, He will not relinquish authority. Think on these verses:

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Eph 1:17-23 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Phil 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Cor 15:24-28 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

In this world here on earth, you can talk about "god" all you want, but you dare mention the "Name above all Names - Jesus", and you start treading on lots of toes. Judaism and Islam both claim their God to be the "God of Abraham", but mention Jesus to them and they go ballistic. To the Jew He is a renegade heretic. To the Muslim he is a minor prophet of no consequence.

Jesus makes this statement:

Matt 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

If you know the ONE TRUE GOD, then you will ALSO Know the Name of His Son.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Joshua Howard]

...Seems to me that a God of three is already infinately unexplainable and beyond reason...

 

[Rafael]

Up front, I want to say that I believe in the Trinity because, from my understanding of scripture, that is the way God has chosen to reveal Himself to us.

However, would it be wrong to say that God is more than Trinity. In fact, wouldn’t it be correct to say that the infinite God is incomprehensible to our finite minds. There seems to be so many wars fought over this Trinity/Unity thing that it could be, in the eyes of God, ludicrous. We are too willing to avoid fellowship because others who profess Christ do not share our Nicene view of the Trinity. Could we be guilty of putting the God of the Universe into a theological three-sided box? Is He that tiny?

I say, God is bigger than our Trinitarian concept of Him.

What do you say?

Jim

True! God becomes limited only by the mind of man. We try and stuff Him neatly in a box which we would very much like to control and have power over. In this way, be try to become God and usurp Him of His power or just become tools of the devil like the arguing and arrogant Pharisees.
The Bible also says that we live and have our being inside of God, so, yes, He is bigger than three and more than we can express completely.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

 

[puriteen18]

Just because God is a Trinity doesn't means He is confined. "Bigger than the Trinity" doesn't make any sense. That's like me asking "Can a dog be bigger than a dog?" No, it is a dog. What it is has nothing to do with it's size or limits.

That is just like the Trinity. God is a Trinity. He exist everywhere as a Trinity. Just be He is a Trinity does not mean that He is in anyway or by anything limited.

 

[Joshua Howard]

Amen. It's like saying, isn't the Universe larger than Infinity? We'll never understand the trinity in it's fullness. Behold, now we see as through a glass darkly, but one day we will understand all things. I say, read the Bible, and take it for what it's worth.

 

[Jim B]

Thanks raphe for understanding.

And Dad Ernie asked,

Greetings Jim,

Are you Oneness?

Not at all, Dad. I am trinitarian as I stated in the first sentence of my initial post. I just believe that God is more than Trinity. Our Nicene concept of the Trinity of God is the best concept we have of Him based on what He has revealed to us in the Word. We can only know what God has chosen to reveal to us.

1 CORINTHIANS 2.9 But just as it is written, "things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and which have not entered the heart of man, all that God has prepared for those who love HIM." 10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

And He has revealed Himself as Trinity.

Zophar may have got it right when he told Job …

JOB 11.7 "Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty? 8 "{They are} high as the heavens, what can you do? Deeper than Sheol, what can you know?”

ECCLESIASTES 3.11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.

ISAIAH 55. 8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. 9 "For {as} the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.

All of this to say we cannot completely define God by Trinity or anything else. He remains infinitely inscrutable.

Jim

 

[seebs]

Up front, I want to say that I believe in the Trinity because, from my understanding of scripture, that is the way God has chosen to reveal Himself to us.

However, would it be wrong to say that God is more than Trinity. In fact, wouldn’t it be correct to say that the infinite God is incomprehensible to our finite minds. There seems to be so many wars fought over this Trinity/Unity thing that it could be, in the eyes of God, ludicrous. We are too willing to avoid fellowship because others who profess Christ do not share our Nicene view of the Trinity. Could we be guilty of putting the God of the Universe into a theological three-sided box? Is He that tiny?

I say, God is bigger than our Trinitarian concept of Him.

What do you say?

It's funny that you mention this; a friend of mine just made a similar point.

For quite some time, the people who knew God best (or so we believe) conceived of a single God, although they occasionally referred to something called, roughly, "the Holy Spirit", which appeared to be like God but different. They were monotheists, but in a way, they had a kind of duality, similar to the Trinity, but with only two components.

Jesus came along, and after a small but bloody arguments, we settled on a Trinity.

What is to say there isn't another Person that we simply don't know about yet? I have no way of ruling this out; I certainly can't claim complete knowledge of God's nature.

I have no idea. Luckily, I don't need to fully understand God.

 

[PastorFreud]

I do know that I could add a fourth person to the Trinity in many churches much easier than changing the carpet color in the sanctuary.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

Even with as much headache and dizzy prospects that the trinity concept gives us now, maybe God is just letting us in on a little bit of Him, because knowing Him fully would send us screaming into the hills. Maybe He knows that the concept of a trinity is all our little brains can wrap around. It doesn't keep me up at night, not knowing if God is keeping a secret from me, because it's probably better that I don't know.

 

[puriteen18]

Even with as much headache and dizzy prospects that the trinity concept gives us now, maybe God is just letting us in on a little bit of Him, because knowing Him fully would send us screaming into the hills. Maybe He knows that the concept of a trinity is all our little brains can wrap around. It doesn't keep me up at night, not knowing if God is keeping a secret from me, because it's probably better that I don't know.

It seems to me that the Trinity is already not something "our little brains can wrap around". Atleast I know this little brain of mine can not even begin to comprehend it.

We still seem to be confused. God said He is a Trinity. He is not any bigger. You cannot comprehend size in God He is everywhere. You seem to be limiting Him in that you attribute to Him a grander size.

He cannot be realized in any size He is in every good and righteous thing infinite. Yet His being is a Trinity.

If He was one and not one in three, He would still be infinate.
If He was two, He would be infinate.

Please understand, I mean no heresy by these statments. God is Trinity. I only mean to say that His being does not limit Him

He is GOD, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

 

[Jim B]

purinteen18 said

God said He is a Trinity.

Oh? And just exactly where did He say that? The best we can say is that the Bible INFERS that God is a Trinity. As far as I know, there is no direct statement, certainly no clear scripture, that teaches there is a Trinity, although, I believe, it is everywhere inferred. In fact, there was no clear teaching about the so-called Trinity in the scripture. Almost every scripture that is used to support the doctrine is a passing reference and yet the so-called Trinity has become a core evangelical doctrine, even an acid test for fellowship in some groups. In fact, the word ‘Trinity’ was not even used until the second century. According to Easton’s Bible Dictionary, “This word [Trinity] is derived from the Gr. ‘trias,’ first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Lat. ‘trinitas,’ first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine.”

While I personally do believe in the central concept of the Trinity, I have come to believe that this is only the way God has chosen to reveal Himself to us. The Trinity, then, is part of who God is but certainly not all that He is.

purinteen18 also said

God said He is a Trinity. He is not any bigger.

Sure He is, p. In fact, God is so much bigger and greater and more mysterious than our poor pea brains can conceive, that He is, well, GOD!! To put our concept God in a tiny cage, label it “Trinity” and present to the world as a definitive picture of the Almighty is silly, not to mention wrong. It’s like the blind men in John Godfrey Saxe’s poem below who could not “see” the entirety for focusing on the part.

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

Jim

 

[puriteen18]

Oh? And just exactly where did He say that? The best we can say is that the Bible INFERS that God is a Trinity. As far as I know, there is no direct statement, certainly no clear scripture, that teaches there is a Trinity, although, I believe, it is everywhere inferred. In fact, there was no clear teaching about the so-called Trinity in the scripture.

I John 5
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Seems to be pretty strongly "inferred" there.

While I personally do believe in the central concept of the Trinity, I have come to believe that this is only the way God has chosen to reveal Himself to us. The Trinity, then, is part of who God is but certainly not all that He is.

The Trinity is not an attribute of God; the Trinity is what God is.

The Bible teaches that God is Jehovah. "Is God bigger than Jehovah?"
The Bible teaches that God is three Divine Persons in one God (a Trinity) . "Is God bigger than the Trinity?"

These two questions are similiar in that they make no sense. Who or What God is has nothing to do with putting limitations on Him. He is Almighty as Jehovah; He is Almighty as the Trinity.

Sure He is, p. In fact, God is so much bigger and greater and more mysterious than our poor pea brains can conceive, that He is, well, GOD!! To put our concept God in a tiny cage, label it “Trinity” and present to the world as a definitive picture of the Almighty is silly, not to mention wrong.

I don't think you read my reason behind that statement.

God is not "bigger" than the Trinity because He IS eternal and infinite as the Trinity.

The Trinity is what God is; it is not what He is able to do.

Trinity is what His being is; it is not His attributes (i.e. righteousness, holiness, omnipotence, omniscience, etc.)

God is what He is; He is not bigger than what He is; because (a) that is what He is and (b) He is already infinite. If He is inifinite, He can't be bigger. He is beyond measurement, so you can't say He is bigger than what He already is. Infinite is Infinite.

 

[Jim B]

The Trinity is not an attribute of God; the Trinity is what God is.

Hey, puriteen18,

We are probably beating this horse to death. I can agree with you that God is a Trinity. I’m just saying that that is not all there is to God and it would be presumptuous to think otherwise. God is beyond our ability to know him (intellectually). For that reason, He has revealed Himself to us through the written word as a Father. Certainly, He is not a father in the same sense as human males are. God is sexless, I would think. He created the sexes, male and female, for the purpose of procreation but since it is a concept we can grasp, He calls himself “Father.”

The idea of the Trinity is simply our human attempt to understand the relationship of the Godhead as He has presented Himself to us in scripture. God may very well be Trinity, but, as you inferred, that in itself is a mind-boggling concept. And God is even beyond even that feeble effort to intellectualize Him.

Boy … is this getting deep or what!

~Jim