Is getting drunk a sin?

[JasoNnnN]

It also says people should sell their possessions-how many christians do that?

 

[JasoNnnN]

Or do we just say that Jesus didn't literally mean sell your possessions?

 

[Zebra1552]

It also says people should sell their possessions-how many christians do that?

That was talking to someone who was so attached to them he wouldn't leave them to follow Jesus- condemning materialism more than a command for all Christians. Context, dude, context.

 

[JasoNnnN]

lol that's what everyone does. I.e: change the context to suit their lifestyles.

Whatever. I'm outta here.

 

[Zebra1552]

lol that's what everyone does. I.e: change the context to suit their lifestyles.

Whatever. I'm outta here.

Hardly. I'm an American. If I wanted it to suit an American lifestyle, I wouldn't interpret it to mean that materialism is bad and that we need to be generous.

 

[Kaitlin08]

It also says people should sell their possessions-how many christians do that?

The Bible doesn't say this; if you're talking about the rich man, that was a command to one individual. Jesus did not accept everyone who wanted to follow him (he turned away the demoniac), because following him was not the same thing as being saved, which of course he wished for everyone. To be sure Acts says the believers shared among themselves, but that is all it says, and if everything were sold then it would not be possible to share. It would also not have been possible for the churches addressed in Paul's letters to meet in large houses of wealthy Christians.

 

[cubinity]

Jesus said nothing that enters a man makes him 'unclean', rather it's what comes out.

Discuss.

I'm an absolutist, but I don't believe in insistence upon absolute conformity, and I don't believe the absolute authority on sin and righteousness does, either.

Therefore, I do not believe that anything, in itself, is a sin. But, if it is a sin to any person, that person will be sinning to do it. (Romans 14)

So: Is getting drunk a sin to you?

 

[JasoNnnN]

Whenever I've been drunk it's to drown my sorrows. I don't like it at all, but it helps me fall asleep which I find difficult to do without. I also find that when I'm drunk I praise jesus more. :\

 

[cubinity]

Whenever I've been drunk it's to drown my sorrows. I don't like it at all, but it helps me fall asleep which I find difficult to do without. I also find that when I'm drunk I praise jesus more. :\

Right on!

There are a lot of religions that use drugs to support the spiritual experience. I don't see why your practice of Christianity can't also do that.

 

[Thomas222]

I do not believe its bad to drink to get drunk. Its what you do when you are drunk that is against God. You experience emotion intensified, if it is lustful normally you will be a lot more lustful, if you are angry sometime you will be wrathful. Anything that triggers your emotion when your drunk, you will overreact to that situation.

Being drunk leads to a whole lot of things you will regret for the rest of your life. Its much better to be in control of yourself.

I use to love getting drunk with my friends whenever we celebrated.
But believe me from my mistakes, God is right, when he tells us that getting drunk is a dangerous, because we loose control.
Its not good for your health, or your relationships with other people and God in the long term.

Found out the hard way.

 

[cubinity]

I do not believe its bad to drink to get drunk. Its what you do when you are drunk that is against God. You experience emotion intensified, if it is lustful normally you will be a lot more lustful, if you are angry sometime you will be wrathful. Anything that triggers your emotion when your drunk, you will overreact to that situation.

Being drunk leads to a whole lot of things you will regret for the rest of your life. Its much better to be in control of yourself.

I use to love getting drunk with my friends whenever we celebrated.
But believe me from my mistakes, God is right, when he tells us that getting drunk is a dangerous, because we loose control.
Its not good for your health, or your relationships with other people and God in the long term.

Found out the hard way.

If, when you drink, you dampen your inhibitions, then what is really showing is the unadulterated desires of your heart.

So, my question is: Why is it that when you drop the facade of your inhibitions all that you demonstrate is sin?

I get drunk regularly, and I do not do anything in my drunkenness that I would consider immoral or displeasing to God. I feel this is possible because, through years of being Christ's disciple, I have come to genuinely love God and I have deeply and personally owned what I understand to be his heart for how I ought to behave, and with whom I ought to associate.

I don't say this to boast or imply that I am somehow better than you or anyone else. I also hold no judgment toward you regarding this.

The assumption that without inhibition we are helplessly sinful just strikes me as interesting. Do you tie this to an idea of original sin and excuse it as unchangeable, therefore simply avoiding the conditions that bring it out of you? Or, do you allow the fact the uninhibited you become a helpless sinner to convict you that maybe there is still some sin that has a very deep hold on your heart, and therefore seek discipleship to break these strongholds?

I just ask this out of curiosity. I mean absolutely no offense by this. God bless.

 

[Zebra1552]

Eph 5:18 Do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit,
Eph 5:19 as you sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs among yourselves, singing and making melody to the Lord in your hearts,
Eph 5:20 giving thanks to God the Father at all times and for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Really? No one's even going to bother looking at this?

 

[cubinity]

Really? No one's even going to bother looking at this?

I don't usually get drunk on the wine, though I do partake.

It's usually the harder stuff that gets me drunk.

 

[Zebra1552]

I don't usually get drunk on the wine, though I do partake.

It's usually the harder stuff that gets me drunk.

Yeah, because getting drunk on vodka or whiskey is SOOO much better. Do you honestly think the verse doesn't apply to you just because it says 'wine'?

 

[cubinity]

Yeah, because getting drunk on vodka or whiskey is SOOO much better. Do you honestly think the verse doesn't apply to you just because it says 'wine'?

<This line is text, which was a quote of a comment made by my cousin, was voluntarily removed by me because it was taken by another user as a blasphemous statement about the Holy Spirit. Though I didn't mean it that way, I am removing it in order to preserve peace as well as honor the spirit of the rules of CF. It is my desire that the other user also remove this line of text from his quote of this post>

So, I certainly think the verse applies! I just apply it differently than you do." - my cousin (with whom I've shared this thread thus far). It made me laugh when she said it, and so I thought I'd share it with y'all.

Of course you're right. The heart of the verse, however, isn't about getting drunk or staying sober, but taking responsibility for your choices, even your choices on how you praise God.

I know it's not a legal statement about drunkenness because the same author later wrote, "I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean." - Romans 14

Besides, the translations I have say, "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery," not that IT is debauchery.

So, perhaps what Paul said about food also applies to drink: "Whoever eats does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God." - also Romans 14.

I stand by what I said above, that it is not about what you drink, or how much of it you drink, but whether or not the behaviors that result are dishonoring to God or not. I believe we can honor God, even in drunkenness.

Of course, I also endorse having someone video tape you when you're drunk and play it back for you. If after viewing yourself, you are ashamed of your behavior, then I'd recommend making some changes, too.

Paul wasn't writing Law, he was giving advice. Take it or leave it, I don't even think he would have called it a sin to not follow his advice. Of course, that's all just my opinion, so take it or leave it.

 

[Samuel Coleridge]

Jesus said nothing that enters a man makes him 'unclean', rather it's what comes out.

Discuss.

Before you get drunk

get someone to video you as you get drunk.

 

[Zebra1552]

"It says specifically to be filled with the "spirit," and any bartender will tell you that "spirit" refers to hard alcohol.

Do you think ripping Scripture out of context is some sort of joke? Joking about the Holy Spirit being hard alcohol is nothing short of blasphemous. Why would you even joke about that?

So, I certainly think the verse applies! I just apply it differently than you do." - my cousin (with whom I've shared this thread thus far). It made me laugh when she said it, and so I thought I'd share it with y'all.

Yeah, she's being blasphemous and we're being serious. Think about what you post before you hit the post button next time. I have alcoholics in my family. My stepfather is in the hospital for getting drunk one too many times and awaits a new liver. So by all means, go ahead and get drunk all you want and see where it gets you.

Of course you're right. The heart of the verse, however, isn't about getting drunk or staying sober, but taking responsibility for your choices, even your choices on how you praise God.

Then I suggest you read it again. Here's commentary to go with it:

Matthew Henry:

"II. In the three following verses the apostle warns against some other particular sins, and urges some other duties. 1. He warns against the sin of drunkenness: And be not drunk with wine, Eph_5:18. This was a sin very frequent among the heathens; and particularly on occasion of the festivals of their gods, and more especially in their Bacchanalia: then they were wont to inflame themselves with wine, and all manner of inordinate lusts were consequent upon it: and therefore the apostle adds, wherein, or in which drunkenness, is excess. The word aso&#772;tia may signify luxury or dissoluteness; and it is certain that drunkenness is no friend to chastity and purity of life, but it virtually contains all manner of extravagance, and transports men into gross sensuality and vile enormities. Note, Drunkenness is a sin that seldom goes alone, but often involves men in other instances of guilt: it is a sin very provoking to God, and a great hindrance to the spiritual life. The apostle may mean all such intemperance and disorder as are opposite to the sober and prudent demeanor he intends in his advice, to redeem the time. 2. Instead of being filled with wine, he exhorts them to be filled with the Spirit. Those who are full of drink are not likely to be full of the Spirit; and therefore this duty is opposed to the former sin. "

I know it's not a legal statement about drunkenness because the same author later wrote, "I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean." - Romans 14

We are not talking about matters of cleanliness or uncleanliness, but of sin and morality. The author, similarly, was talking about things that are both disputable and clean or unclean in Romans 14. Again, Scripture is taken out of context to mean what you want it to mean rather than what's there. This is not proper hermeneutics.

Besides, the translations I have say, "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery," not that IT is debauchery.

'leads to' is not part of the Greek. Take a look at the NAS:

Eph 5:18 And do not getG3182 drunkG3182 with wineG3631, for that is dissipationG810, but be filledG4137 with the SpiritG4151,

The word being:
G810
&#945;&#787;&#963;&#969;&#964;&#953;&#769;&#945;
aso&#772;tia
Thayer Definition:
1) an abandoned, dissolute life
2) profligacy, prodigality
Part of Speech: feminine noun

So yes, it does say 'do not get drunk, for this is debauchery'. In fact, the Greek is much harsher and calls it an abandoned and dissolute life. You break that down further, and you get:

The quality of state of being profligate; a profligate or very vicious course of life; a state of being abandoned in moral principle and in vice; dissoluteness.

(answers.com)
​

So, perhaps what Paul said about food also applies to drink: "Whoever eats does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God." - also Romans 14.

Hardly. He was talking about meat sacrificed to idols, not alcohol.

I stand by what I said above, that it is not about what you drink, or how much of it you drink, but whether or not the behaviors that result are dishonoring to God or not. I believe we can honor God, even in drunkenness.

You go ahead and stand by your own morality. I will stand by the wisdom that is the Bible, and take it at its word rather than manipulate it for my own ends.

Paul wasn't writing Law, he was giving advice. Take it or leave it, I don't even think he would have called it a sin to not follow his advice. Of course, that's all just my opinion, so take it or leave it.

"Do not get drunk" is about as commanding and non-advice-giving as you can get. I'll leave your opinion right where it is.

 

[cubinity]

Jaws13,

I've obviously offended you, which I don't get the impression could have been avoided. Perhaps your ignore list is the right place for my name.

The Holy Spirit and I are close friends. We've been kickin' it for years. Some light humor now and again is nothing short of friendly antics. The HS and I have discussed it on multiple occasions, and I honestly believe that He thinks its funny, too.

I assure you that even your post is blasphemous to someone on this site (For example, I find legalistic rhetoric offensive in light of the freedom our Christ and Lord died to provide us). I don't know if you've noticed, but Christianity is fractured, and we are all seen as heretics to someone, so thinking about what I've written before I hit submit button isn't going to change anything. We are all offensive to someone, just as I obviously am to you, and the sooner we accept that, the sooner we can see past our differences and show one another love. This is Christianity on todays Internet. It's not going anywhere.

The internet makes Paul's advice not to do offensive stuff in front of those who are easily offended very difficult. Every time I hit submit, someone out there is going to accuse me of heresy or blasphemy, because we all do what I'm doing: We all revere God in our own unique way, and we all get a little bent out of shape when we encounter someone who does it differently. The dilemma is that we can't control our fellow Christians, and Romans 14 specifically tells us that when we encounter differences like these, we should stop judging one another over it.

I assure you that nothing I wrote was meant to offend you, insult our God, or intentionally blaspheme our mutual friend, the Holy Spirit. I gave honest answers to honest questions, and described the events, comments and opinions as they really were.

I'm sorry that our reverence and our hermeneutics are exercised in such dramatically different ways that you and I were not able to be friends. I leave this particular dialogue with the utmost respect for you, and if you choose not to ignore me, I also look forward to any future comments you have for posts I write.

I do hope God blesses you and keeps you.

- Cubinity

 

[cubinity]

On another thread started by JasoNnnN, about smoking, someone posted this. I thought it really applied to the conversation we were having here, so I'm reposting it in this thread as well.

Smoking is like a lot of things that the prevailing Christian culture calls SIN. There's nothing in the Bible that clearly states it as sin and yet it gets labeled that way just like alcohol does.

Smoking and drinking alcohol may not be advisable past times for health reasons and for the risks of addictive behavior, but to label it a SIN is going too far in my view.

It's amazing how different religious cultures call certain things SIN without any clear-cut scriptural reference. And then they ostracize those who break their manmade rule as if they had become vile heathens. In my 40+ years as a believer, I've come to realize that God is not the big "stick in the mud" that so many religious people make Him out to be.

 

[Zebra1552]

Jaws13,

I've obviously offended you, which I don't get the impression could have been avoided. Perhaps your ignore list is the right place for my name.

The Holy Spirit and I are close friends. We've been kickin' it for years. Some light humor now and again is nothing short of friendly antics. The HS and I have discussed it on multiple occasions, and I honestly believe that He thinks its funny, too.

Joking about the Holy Spirit being hard alcohol is hardly ever funny. It's rude and tactless, and even if you did think it was funny it's hardly something to be saying over the internet where you don't know your audience and if they will appreciate your 'joke'. It was completely out of place.

I assure you that even your post is blasphemous to someone on this site (For example, I find legalistic rhetoric offensive in light of the freedom our Christ and Lord died to provide us).

Christ didn't give us freedom to engage in wanton drinking.

I don't know if you've noticed, but Christianity is fractured, and we are all seen as heretics to someone, so thinking about what I've written before I hit submit button isn't going to change anything. We are all offensive to someone, just as I obviously am to you, and the sooner we accept that, the sooner we can see past our differences and show one another love. This is Christianity on todays Internet. It's not going anywhere.

This is about the message you presented and your response to the passage I quoted: It is also about whether getting drunk is a sin. I have no interest in any issue other than that in this thread. Stick to the issue.

The internet makes Paul's advice not to do offensive stuff in front of those who are easily offended very difficult. Every time I hit submit, someone out there is going to accuse me of heresy or blasphemy, because we all do what I'm doing: We all revere God in our own unique way, and we all get a little bent out of shape when we encounter someone who does it differently. The dilemma is that we can't control our fellow Christians, and Romans 14 specifically tells us that when we encounter differences like these, we should stop judging one another over it.

Except that Paul specifically condemned getting drunk in the worst way possible according to the Greek. You would call that a 'personal difference' on the level of eating meat sacrificed to idols, apples to oranges, with no real justification for it. This is not a difference in methodology, it is a difference of morality, as I showed you in my last post.

I assure you that nothing I wrote was meant to offend you, insult our God, or intentionally blaspheme our mutual friend, the Holy Spirit. I gave honest answers to honest questions, and described the events, comments and opinions as they really were.

Then you can be honest and address the information I provided without making jokes about God being hard alcohol or accusing others of being easily offended. Address the issue.

I'm sorry that our reverence and our hermeneutics are exercised in such dramatically different ways that you and I were not able to be friends. I leave this particular dialogue with the utmost respect for you, and if you choose not to ignore me, I also look forward to any future comments you have for posts I write.

I do hope God blesses you and keeps you.

- Cubinity

You aren't exercising hermeneutics. In order to do that, you would need to pull up information from the original languages, and information that actually provides a thorough background on the verse. You did neither, in favor of 'well, some translations say this, so it must be this way' and have failed to address what I posted in favor of trying to make good with me. This isn't about me, this is about whether getting drunk is a sin. I have posted information that indicates that it is, and you have disagreed without basis. This is a discussion. Either provide that basis, or your disagreement is without foundation.