Is Gender Identity a modern social construct?

BCP1928 said:

Trans people have always existed. In some cultures there are excepted gender categories for them.

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I wonder if this is purely a homosapiens phenomenon, or if it's found in other mammalian species as well? I'm going to have to look into it.

2PhiloVoid said:

I wonder if this is purely a homosapiens phenomenon, or if it's found in other mammalian species as well? I'm going to have to look into it.

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What male superstar was actually a female?

And what female superstar was actually a male?

2PhiloVoid said:

I wonder if this is purely a homosapiens phenomenon, or if it's found in other mammalian species as well? I'm going to have to look into it.

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Gender is a reflection of how society sees each of us. And how we'd like to be seen. To treat someone as a different gender to their biological sex then you'd have to understand what it complies in the first place.

Would you expect an ape to do that? Let's face it, there are so many people in this forum that cannot grasp the concept...

One could say that after the fall of Man was the birth of genetic abnormalities.

One could say as time goes on, humans multiply, which makes sin multiply, and genetic abnormalities multiply.

Much of Egyptians art had a feminine and look

These modern days has taken such matters to a different level. So I would say the term gender identity is a modern day concept of something which has existed since the fall of man, who's human factors have grown and growing. In the 1960s and years before there was no term gender identity.

Bible warns us what sin brings about and how it will get worse and worse.

truthuprootsevil said:

Bible warns us what sin brings about and how it will get worse and worse.

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Like tares growing among the wheat!

AV1611VET said:

Like tares growing among the wheat!

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Amen

NBB said:

also society in general disapproved those ideas,

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Christian society did. Not the wider society.

Larniavc said:

Christian society did. Not the wider society.

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Lies, at least in here, nobody talked about that, it was a fringe of some 'weird people' that nobody wanted near their families.
The idea didn't even crossed our minds, it was that alien to us. The number of trans teens and kids, were non existant,
you were born as boy or girl, and that it, this confusion is only bad, not everything new is better.

NBB said:

Lies, at least in here, nobody talked about that, it was a fringe of some 'weird people' that nobody wanted near their families.

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But you live in a Christian area with a Christian society correct?

Larniavc said:

But you live in a Christian area with a Christian society correct?

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God Save the King

Larniavc said:

But you live in a Christian area with a Christian society correct?

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No, is the most atheistic country.
I have read people that said it was the same in UK for example in the 80 and 90', that this always existed is not true, they are brainwashing the youth with this.

NBB said:

No, is the most atheistic country.

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Uruguay is mostly Christian.

Larniavc said:

Uruguay is mostly Christian.

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But not the right type of Christian

There is some dispute over whether Akhenaten meant his god to be monotheistic or rather he was eliminating all other gods to claim some diety himself. It seems this was fairly common around this time with pharoahs claiming godlike status.

If Abraham had declared Yahweh are the one true God around 1800 BC maybe earlier and he had gathered tribes behind him. Then the proto Isrealites were already worshipping a monotheistic God. What Abraham declared about God being the only God would have been passed on to those who followed Abraham.

Especially by the time we have the proto Isrealites coming to Egypt bringing items and practices that are destinctively Hebrew. Such as a certain species of sheep that comes from the Levant for sacrifice to the one true God. Archeological discoveies show there was a destinct Hebrew culture while in Egypt probably before Akhenaten who reigns between 1353–1336 BC.

So it maybe that Akhenaten actually got the idea of a montheistic God from the proto Isrealites who the pharoahs would have been aware of their worship practices.

We see Moses appealing to the Emprorer pre Exodus to let his people go so they can go and worship their God in the desert. So I would say the pharoahs ruling would have known about the growing discontentment of these proto Isrealites God.

If Akhenaten had already known about Yahweh and perhaps seen His power amoung the proto Isrealites then he may have wanted to model his new god on this while still incorporating all the polygods which included the feminine gods into one mighty god encompassing all.

Especially considering that Tutankhamun who followed restored all the Egyptains gods after the proto Isrealites had escaped Egypt. Like Akhenaten god was a reaction against the Yahweh as trying to outdo the proto Islealites God.

From what I understand if the Exoduc happened aroun 1400BC and Akhenaten reign began in1353BC thats less than 50 years after all the mayham in Egypt from the God of Moses causing all the plagues including killing the pharoahs heir to the throne.

So Akhenaten would have been pretty impressed by the Isrealites God and wanted to emulate this and mix it into the Egyptian gods.

I think gender identity in its current form is a social construct. That is 'gender' has become the defining aspect of the real person rather than the objective world. That the sense of self has some spiritual or transcedent realness in the world.

I think the development of 'gender identity' has been happening for decades. I think it began with critical feminism which expanded into LGB studies and the around the 90s with Queer theory.

M<ost of the pioneers in queer theory were prominent lesbian feminists. I remember Judith Butlers quote that gender is performative which means that there can be no gender identity before the gendered acts, because the acts are continuously constituting the identity.

I think this is one aspect of gender identity that came out of feminism that gender identity was in large part performative. So it seems at least in part gender identity is an expression of how one feels about themselves as performed within society. One can if inclined choose to act feminine or masculline.

What degree of performance is socially constructed or natural is something that would need to be destinguished. I don't think they are completely socially constructed.

For example studies have shown that infant male chimps will tend to play with toy trucks and blocks similar to humans. There are some differences in thinking such as males relating to spatial aspects and geometric shapes which females relate more to social aspects, facial expression and emotions.

The question is could a society or an individual flip the traditional traits of men and women and say recondition a male to act feminine without some underlying inclination is hard to know. But I do thing we can perform without being inclined that way.

But I think at the same time society has cultivated the idea identity as being the measure of success. I think is has been accellerated by social media and reality TV. Everything is about how someone presents, their lifestyle, their looks and cloths and cars and how many likes.

This I think is another idea from the feminist movement that the "political is the personal". Politics moved into the personal domain and it wasn't about good policies but how they presented and identified with the people. Marketing a created identity that people would relate to. Thats why we could see politicians being remodeled according to the electorate.

Social media has given a voice to all now and so everyone is an identity with something to say and look like. Identities are then divided by race, gender, sex, lifestyle, looks, wealth, success, how happy, healthy, who you know, or what crazy feat, ect. Everyone is then grouped as the bad and good identities. Such as white males being the lowest on the identity hierarchy.

stevevw said:

I think gender identity in its current form is a social construct.

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I've lost count of the number of times that that has been explained to you. Has them penny finally dropped?

Bradskii said:

I've lost count of the number of times that that has been explained to you. Has them penny finally dropped?

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I have known this for years lol.

I think you may be getting confused that gender is both a social construct and innate.

The current form of gender identity denies any innate aspects and gender is completely a subjective determination. That is what makes it an ideology. That it detaches itself completely from objective reality and in fact trumps objective reality.

stevevw said:

I have known this for years lol.

I think you may be getting confused that gender is both a social construct and innate.

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What's innate about gender?