Is French Kissing a Mortal Sin?

[UncleHermit]

^ ^

What cantata said.

 

[Zentancia]

*looks utterly blank* I think I'm just totally unqualified to participate in this thread.

All I can say is that I find any book highly suspicious that makes mention of an uncontrollable sexual urge being aroused in men (and men alone) when they engage in French kissing. Frankly, if your boyfriend is the sort of man who is so aroused by kissing that he simply can't help but throw caution to the wind and tear your clothes off on the spot, I'd avoid being alone in the same room with him, let alone kissing him. To the best of my knowledge, most men who have any respect for women are perfectly capable of refraining from having wild, passionate sex after kissing. I would take the comments of anyone who tells you otherwise with a large pinch of salt.

See I thought this too, I found it a little strange, plus the fact that I was my boyfriends first kiss and we had only kissed for the first time a month prior to this, so the whole thing was odd to me...

 

[flicka]

There is an entire industry devoted to "Christian purity" and people make tons of money writing books and giving lectures on the subject. Over time, in order to set themselves apart, people have taken on stricter and stricter ideas on what Christians ought/ought not do. The theory being that by doing absolutely NOTHING you will more "pure", which is one of the key emotional buzzwords of the industry.

Basically you boyfriend was sold a bill of goods. Becoming a savvy consumer takes time and maturity, something young people often lack. That's why they make good targets for advertising.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

I've never found that in the Bible.

Also, what constitutes sex?

Genitals touching the skin, genitals touching each other. Basically if one person is naked, then you're probably doing something sexual. Unless you're not touching. In which case one person is just naked. Which isn't really sex. I don't know what the fun is in just looking at each other but whatever.

 

[The Nihilist]

Genitals touching the skin, genitals touching each other. Basically if one person is naked, then you're probably doing something sexual. Unless you're not touching. In which case one person is just naked. Which isn't really sex. I don't know what the fun is in just looking at each other but whatever.

It's not sex at all until someone gets penetrated. Before that, it's sexual, it's sexy, but it's not sex.

 

[KET20]

It's not sex at all until someone gets penetrated. Before that, it's sexual, it's sexy, but it's not sex.

Precisely.

 

[cantata]

Genitals touching the skin, genitals touching each other. Basically if one person is naked, then you're probably doing something sexual. Unless you're not touching. In which case one person is just naked. Which isn't really sex. I don't know what the fun is in just looking at each other but whatever.

What about two naked people in a room masturbating together?

I've always thought this sounded like a good solution to the whole virgin-until-marriage thing.

 

[cantata]

It's not sex at all until someone gets penetrated. Before that, it's sexual, it's sexy, but it's not sex.

Agreed.

... No penises required, though, I might hasten to add. Also, does a woman performing oral sex on a man then count as sex?

 

[KET20]

What about two naked people in a room masturbating together?

I've always thought this sounded like a good solution to the whole virgin-until-marriage thing.

Sounds good to me!

 

[gengwall]

See I thought this too, I found it a little strange, plus the fact that I was my boyfriends first kiss and we had only kissed for the first time a month prior to this, so the whole thing was odd to me...

First things first - the issue isn't the act itself. The bible contains no condemnation of any particular sexual act (yes, kissing is sexual).

The real issue is the impact it has. If your boyfriend can honestly say that he isn't getting arroused during your kissing sessions (yes, arrousal is a sexual response), then have at it. I doubt he can honestly say that. Moreover, if it causes him to have sexual fantasy and thought, then he has ventured into sinful territory.

Bottom line, if it IS impacting his purity, he should refrain. But not because the act itself is inherently sinful.

BTW - www.themarriagebed.com has a great page for singles on "how far is too far". You may want to check it out. The general rule is this - anything you do that, if done by your spouse to someone other than you, would be considered "adultary", is sexual in nature and therefore dangerous territory at best. Believe me, the chastity guru your BF heard is against ALL kissing, if he remains intellectually honest to his convictions about what is sexual. Now, of course, kissing and hugging are gray areas. Because they don't involve the genitalia (at least directly physically), they are acceptable to a degree in most religious morality circles. But, if they get the genitalia "going", then they have become overtly sexual and should be curtailed. Certainly, the more overt genital stimulating activities are expressly sexual and should be universally avoided outside of marriage. But I think you have no problem there, right?

As you can see, you will get two different categories of answer here - one from those who value chasitity and think ALL sexual expression should be reserved for your spouse within marriage, and one from the "anything goes, chastity is stupid" crowd. I don't know where you fall, but I sense it is in the first group. If that is the case, then you need to guard your purity jelously, even while rejecting unscriptural legalistic mumbo jumbo from supposed biblical authorities. It also means you need to take a serious and honest look at the physical aspects of your relationship and set reasonable buondaries, mutually agreed to. Most of all, don't assume for one minute that any particular activity or action affects the two of you in the same way. Both your BF and you need to be willing to let go of things that may not impact one sexually but may be a stumbling block for the other.

 

[cantata]

Talk about love being a battlefield...

 

[DeathMagus]

So, is it a sin to french kiss a mortal or not?

I personally think it depends largely on whether the mortal knows that his kissing partner is immortal before the kissing actually takes place. I think anything less than full disclosure is very sinful in nature. Of course, if both of the kissers are mortal, it's a non-issue.

 

[Paulos23]

By who's mortals are we comparing too? If your going to go by some fundamentalist mortals, you better not even think about touching the other sex (or the same sex for that matter). On the other end of the spectrum there are people that believe that casual sex is a great way to know someone.

If your looking for some official morality here, good luck. Everyone here comes from a different moral background, and has changed that morality based on experiences through their life. If you have a church that you look to for moral guidance I would say ask there.

If your asking my opinion, given your age, I would say go for it. Just be aware that it does raise the passions, which can be fun as well if your ready for that.

 

[keith99]

Yes, French Kissing is a Mortal sin! At least for some cults.

Think of it as evolution in action! Similar cults have existed before. The Shakers come to mind. Similar anti-sex, but in this case I'd say anti-affection, ideas always come to the same end. Eventually the cult dies out because its members fail to reporduce.

 

[Ariel]

I don't think French kissing is a sin. Unwise at times, yes, but not a sin.

 

[Verv]

I've never found that in the Bible.

Also, what constitutes sex?

I Corinthians 7 speaks of this:

5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. 8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.


Christ speaks of marriage as a unity in the flesh:

Mark 8:
6"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'[a] 7'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8and the two will become one flesh.'[c] So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." 10When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."


And you would think that is just marriage but Paul knows that sex is essentially considered becoming one flesh with someone:

1 Corinthians 6:16
Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."

It is covered thoroughly in the Bible though French kissing is not.

How to define sex? Well, as the Bible is not a dictionary I do not know. I imagine that their idea is genital-on-orifice contact. I am still not sure what Bill Clinton's definition is, though. I am not even sure what his definition of 'is' is.

 

[mpok1519]

the Bible doesn't specify if "one flesh" is exclusive to genital penetration, or mouth muscle interaction.

but I thought mortal sin meant a sin you can die from.

but I suppose if contracted ebola through kissing, then yes, i suppose it us.

otherwise, no.

 

[GeratTzedek]

Zentacia:

It depends on what you are trying to avoid. French kissing is not intercourse. There are plenty of good, moral people who french kiss.

But some religious groups have a stricter standard: not lusting. If that is the standard, then you want to avoid those activities that are going to lead you (and your boyfriend) into a state of desire. I don't know about you, but french kissing is definitely one of those things.

Normally we think of this as a "Catholic issue," and your use of the term "mortal sin" tells me that you and your boyfriend are Catholic. It's a good religious tradition, and I hope you continue in it and become the best Catholics you can be. Know, however, that Catholicism is not the only religious tradition to have this high standard. Indeed, Catholicism basically swiped it from Judaism.

In Orthodox Judaism, a couple does not so much as hold hands. In fact, I do not shake hands with a man when I meet him. As for french kissing? I am taught that to do anything that will arouse a man not my husband to the point of erection, I would be excommunicated.

From The Concise Book of Mitzvoth

110. It is a negative commandment not to be in close contact with consanguineous relations, even without conjugal intamacy as scriprure says, None of you shall approach anyone near of kin to him, to uncover nakedness [Vayikra 18:6] which means, for example, embracing and kissing, these being things that lead to "the uncovering of nakedness" [immorality]. If someone violates this and embraces or kisses [a forbidden consanguinous relation] or enjoy physical proximity with her, he should be given whiplashes, and is to be suspected of immorality. It is forbidden to wink or signal or plahy with them, or to sniff the perfume on them, or gaze at their beauty. One should do nothing that leads to improper fantasy; and it is forbiddden to produce a seminal emission, this being a very severe sin. If someone deliberately brings on an erection, he is in a state of excommunication.

 

[cantata]

In fact, I do not shake hands with a man when I meet him.

I was under the impression that that has more to do with Orthodox Jewish ideas about menstruating women than to the notion of chastity.

 

[GeratTzedek]

cantata: you are mistaken. While you are correct that there are certainly additional taboos added regarding a husband touching his wife during Niddah, the prohibition of shaking the hand of a stranger is in effect at all times and has to do with chastity.

It is nice that you are somewhat familiar with these things.