Is financial $$ and riches guaranteed ??

[dkbwarrior]

We can not deny that people do use the Gospel for selfish means and the Bible adresses that.

We are in 100% agreement on that.

The fact remains that many godly and faithful men and women do not have great wealth in this life, at least by mens standards.

True, but how does that address anything we are talking about?

The only way that would be worth the words to say it would be if you thought a persons circumstance was somehow a proof of Gods will for their life, and it is not.

Only the Word of God can set the standard for what God Wills, not someones circumstance.

Alot of godly men and women still struggle with private sins in their lives, everything from gossip to lust. Alot of godly men and women are not healed. Alot of godly men and women worry about things. For that matter, alot of godly men and women have not yet been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Does this mean that God wills for them to struggle with gossip and lust? Does this prove that God does not want them healed? Does this mean God wants them to worry, rather than cast their care on Him? Does this prove that God does not want some to be baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Things of God don't come by being godly, they come by faith. Because someone is poor, doesn't mean that this is Gods will for them.

A quick test of any teaching is whether or not its universal. Can this health and welath gospel be applied to every nation and culture? No, it can not.

I disagree. If it cannot, then why is the so-called 'health and wealth' gospel spreading the fastest in Africa, and other third world countries?

There was an interesting article in Christianity Today last year called "Health and Wealth In Africa, How The Prosperity Gospel Is Taking A Continent By Storm".

It was written by those who are not sympathetic to the message in question. They interviewed some denominational church leaders who bemoaned the fact that they had missionaries in country for decades that could barely hold together some small congregations, only to watch in astonishment as the advent of christian TV and mass crusades have sprouted mega churches almost overnight, and in some countries a plurality of the population is now converted, whith the largest single group of those believers being of what you call the 'health and wealth' variety.

I could go on and on about how mainline protestant christianity is decreasing, and being replaced and overrun by the new move of God, and bringing with it the conversion of masses of new believers from third world countries.

In fact, WOF, what you would call the 'health and wealth' gospel, is the only arm of protestant christianity that is growing exponentially around the world right now. This of course, is what happens with every new move of God initially, until it gets denominationalized and watered down over time.
I encourage you to do some research. There is a book called The Encyclopedia of the Pentecostal/Charismatic Movement that has facts and figures for every known population of the world, and tracks them from Azusa street to the present.

What are going to say to the man in Ethiopia who does not own a Rolex even though he is extremely faithful and is a mature Christian?

What do you say to godly women who develops breast cancer?

The good news that God can prosper you and God can heal you.

I've lived in a borrowed tent moving form campground to campground and I've owned a home. Do I prefer owning a home? Sure. Do I praise God for His provision? Absolutley. Am I content in every situation because I trust God and I know He will do what He will in and through me as a willing vessel because He loves me and is faithful to give me what He knows I need instead of what I think I need? Yes

That is good. But do you have enough to give to every good work? That is the purpose of prosperity. It is good that you have enough, but what about your neighbor?

God is able to give us sufficiency in all things so that we have more than enough for our own needs, and enough to give to every good work. Us four and no more doesn't help the rest of the world much, does it? If one cannot feed himself, how can he feed his neighbor.

If you don't want money, then believe God for money and give it to those who need it.

Am I against those who are wealthy? No, I praise God that He has blessed them. Am I going to tell the poor that they will be rich in this life? No, I don't want to spread that lie.

Well, Okay, you tell them what you want to. I will tell them this:

9For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
-2 Corinthians 8:9

Peace...

 

[dkbwarrior]

Brother i am glad you posted this because it gives me a chance to explain what i was hopeing someday people would see what i believe God has been trying to do over the last year on this forum.
Many feel like i am against the WOF doctrine that i support one group and am against another group. This is not true by any means.
I am not against the prosperity doctrine or the healing doctrine what i am against concerning these things are [ teaching them in peart ] something both groups are guilty of.
When we teach in part people get hurt unneeded guilt can be placed vanity can grow, alot of stumbling blocks can arise. Or they are without hope and lack Faith.
I AM NOT ANTI WOF i am anti teaching half of a whole of Gods Word.
Teaching the good half of things increase numbers at a church in the short term and increase a churchs finances $$ but we all know thats not what its about, its about Christ and Truth. And Both come into fulness when the whole of Gods Word is taught.
My intent has always been to provoke both side to debate and then when people read and study both non wof and wof my hope was that in doing so both sides of the coin would be taught, both sides seen, the WHOLE of Gods Word taught by two opposing groups of people.
My intent was to never support or come against either group but to draw out Truth from both groups.
In doing so i have been misunderstood and have lost a few friends but its not about me, its about all of us wrestling for Gods Truth seeing two sides of each issue , its about learning the WHOLE OF GODS WORD nothing more nothing less.
Both groups both non wof and wof are right neither is wrong and both are guilty of teaching in part.
You see brothers and sisters that old man who lost his farm touched my heart. And his eyes and his tears taught me that we must teach the whole of Gods Word not just the parts that sound good or feel good.
We must teach both sides of the coin, the whole of Gods Word.
No group is wrong, actually both groups are right. Two sides of ONE coin.
Our wounds will heal when it is understood both groups are right and no one was ever wrong. God has shaken us all so the Whole of His Word would be revealed and i believe it has been.
We will all heal as will the forum heal, we will have grown and the forum will eventually be better than it has ever been. But that will only happen when both groups realize they are both right and they both need to teach the whole of Gods Word. Brother rod

This post touched me millerod.

I know we have been at odds before, but I understand the move of a peacemaker when I see it. I am sure that we will disagree again, probably sooner than later, but I apologize for having at times misjudged your motives.

One of the attributes of love is that it believes the best of people, (unless there is obvious proof otherwise of course.) Therefore I take you at your word that you are not anti-whatever. I wish above all things to walk in love with my brethren. One thing we should never do is judge anothers intent. We are not God.

Thank you for your post.

Peace...

 

[mont974x4]

WoF tickles ears. That is why it grows. People want hear that things are going to be just peachy if they are saved. The fact is we are promised tough times, with a safe landing at the end. We can not look at Scripture and the examples of godly men and women and deny that they had good times and bad through no fault of their own. It is the cost of living for Christ, as living Sacrifices, and often just a fact of life while still in this world.


Yes, God does prosper us and He does heal us...but rarely the way the WoF movement claims and it is used far to often as a beating stick on the backs of those who need compassion the most. You should have seen the horrible things said and done to a godly woman I know that had a miscarriage. And that is just one of many cases I personally witnessed.


We are rich, we have every need met, but there is no guarantee of massive physical wealth in this life. We lay up our treasure in Heaven where it can not be stolen or destroyed.


Personally, we give out of our need and out of our blessing. But that is not relevant to this discussioon, IMO.

 

[dkbwarrior]

WoF tickles ears. That is why it grows.

Okay, then you should not have made that argument. It is a little unfair to set a rule, and then when you lose, change the rule. Unless the truth is really not what you are after, but only justifying the mind set that you have aquired.

People want hear that things are going to be just peachy if they are saved.

I challenge you to show find a single quote where any well known and accepted minister within the WOF movement has ever said anything remotely like "get saved and things will be just peachy".

I guess it is a good accusation to make, because it is so easy to knock down; the only problem is it isn't true.

WOF teaches that we can appropriate the blessings of God through faith and patience, and that it is a neverending lifelong process.

You receive revelation of the promise of God for a situation, you believe you recieve, and then you stand with patience through the feiry trial of your faith, the circumstances that willl try to convince you that the promise is not true, until you receive the promise.

You hold fast your profession of faith, whether it takes months or days or years.

The fact is we are promised tough times, with a safe landing at the end. We can not look at Scripture and the examples of godly men and women and deny that they had good times and bad through no fault of their own. It is the cost of living for Christ, as living Sacrifices, and often just a fact of life while still in this world.

I agree that bad things happen constantly without rhyme or reason, and through no fault of the person affected. But the ear tickling doctrine is the one that says there is nothing we can do to change things, because it may be God teaching us something, or some other such nonsense. That requires nothing from us but to do what we were doing anyway, suffering.

It takes effort to grab hold of the promise of God, and change the circumstance through prayer and faith. It is the labour that we are called to.

Yes, God does prosper us and He does heal us...but rarely the way the WoF movement claims and it is used far to often as a beating stick on the backs of those who need compassion the most. You should have seen the horrible things said and done to a godly woman I know that had a miscarriage. And that is just one of many cases I personally witnessed.

I am just reading between the lines here but it seems that you have confused the general WOF movement with some of the extremes that have occured. I am sorry for that, and any hurt to the woman that you mention. Every move of God has extremes, and immaturity, and other things. But I can assure you that this is not representative of what WOF is really about.

Peace...

 

[millerrod]

WoF tickles ears. That is why it grows. People want hear that things are going to be just peachy if they are saved. The fact is we are promised tough times, with a safe landing at the end. We can not look at Scripture and the examples of godly men and women and deny that they had good times and bad through no fault of their own. It is the cost of living for Christ, as living Sacrifices, and often just a fact of life while still in this world.


Yes, God does prosper us and He does heal us...but rarely the way the WoF movement claims and it is used far to often as a beating stick on the backs of those who need compassion the most. You should have seen the horrible things said and done to a godly woman I know that had a miscarriage. And that is just one of many cases I personally witnessed.


We are rich, we have every need met, but there is no guarantee of massive physical wealth in this life. We lay up our treasure in Heaven where it can not be stolen or destroyed.


Personally, we give out of our need and out of our blessing. But that is not relevant to this discussioon, IMO.

Brother their [ wof ] zeal for recieving Gods blessings is not a bad thing as a matter of fact its just that kind of zeal that can move mountians in Christs name. The side of the coin you are representing is just as important as the side of the coin they represent. If you could take what they believe and teach and add it to your beliefs and if they could take your beliefs and add them to their beliefs and if both could teach the WHOLE the Body of Christ would be a fire of TRUTH that would scorch the earth.
They can and do support their beliefs with scripture and you can and do support your beliefs with scripture, is it then not clear you are both right and when both beliefs are combined and taught the WHOLE of Gods Word is then seen the WHOE of Gods Truth revealed.
The reality is there are false preachers in ALL the different churches whos only concern is numbers and $$ it is true there is no shortage of ear ticklers in the world today, thats just that much more reason for us to preach and teach the WHOLE of Gods Word no matter whos group we fall into. Brother rod

 

[LJSGM]

Is financial wealth and riches guaranteed ??

Guaranteed? If you do what? Do good? Have faith in Christ? Claim riches in Christ's name?

 

[millerrod]

I stated it vaguely so it would be answered broadly !!

 

[LJSGM]

Wealth does nothing for us Christians spiritually, rather, I think that it mostly hinders our spiritual walk. That is why I don't think God throws material blessings at us. God offers us healing, but I wouldn't say it's guaranteed in that, sometimes, or maybe even a lot of times, suffering causes a growth in character, hope and love among other things.

James 4:3
When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

This says to me that we can ask for money, but that God gives it so that we should spend it on doing good and other selfless acts of righteousness, or perhaps basic needs.

 

[mont974x4]

I never changed the rules.

I spent 4 years in a Wof Church. The health, wealth prosperity gospel was preached almost every Sunday. And the basic premise is that life is peachy if you are holy. You will be healthy and rich if you just have enough faith.

If you have been lucky enough to not encounter the extreme teachings of hardcore WoF, I am happy for you. That has not been so in my case. What I have seen is that instead of sharing the whole Gospel and the entire truth of what it means to follow Christ, people are promised the moon and God is treated like a cosmic santa clause. Then when life gets in the way the people are blamed. The people are told they are not holy enough. They are told sin got in the way. They are told that they lack faith. Instead of coming alongside them and helping bear burdens they are beat up on and end up questioning their faith and God.


God gives good gifts and many times that is to leave us in our adversity, like Paul continuing with his thorn in the flesh, for His perfect will and His purposes.


I won't get started on the "Just send me this "seed" and watch the money roll in" charlatans.

OK, I'm out. Our church is having a family fun day. I truly hope ya'll have a blessed weekend, secure in His hands.


Jay

 

[ImmersionX]

I spent 4 years in a Wof Church. The health, wealth prosperity gospel was preached almost every Sunday. And the basic premise is that life is peachy if you are holy. You will be healthy and rich if you just have enough faith.

Agreed, and I am not speaking for the poster of whom I took this quote...but I will speak on behalf of myself: I am anti-WoF....if you have questions about that, feel free to PM me. That's all I gotta say on that subject.

 

[JimfromOhio]

There are teachers who preaches the main messages that are money, health and self-fulfillment. My concept of such teachings is that they focuses on self-centereds in terms of "faith" towards health, wealth and prosperity rather than God-centered. I don't view these as the essentials of Christian life and practice. We live in a world which places great emphasis on beauty, wealth and power and some teachers will take advantage of the souls and use Christianity to gain wealth. Such teachers only want your money (2 Peter 2:3).

Reading 1 Timothy 4 explains that Christians must choose their priorities carefully like an athlete as to have disciplined lives forgo some desires that may hinder doing God's will and please God as you are after God's own heart. One example is excessive longing for wealth and gaining money to live in luxury. We are not to covet with Faith.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

All WoFers please allow our ex-WoFers to express their opinions first.
What do all you ex-WoF experts think about E.W.Keyon's teaching about speaking in tongues?

Do you believe that all believers can speak in tongues?

 

[JimB]

All WoFers please allow our ex-WoFers to express their opinions first.
What do all you ex-WoF experts think about E.W.Keyon's teaching about speaking in tongues?

Do you believe that all believers can speak in tongues?

Sure, I believe all Christians can (and should) speak in tongues from the moment they are saved. But I didn’t know E.W. Kenyon did. He was never Pentecostal and from my research he never spoke in tongues. Pentecostals (esp. of the WOF flavor) will say he did (of course) but from what I am able to gather there is not a word about tongues in all his writings.

If you can show me otherwise, I will retract this statement.

But what has that to do with the OP?

~Jim

Real heroes are people who rise to the occasion then slip quietly away. ~Tom Brokaw​

 

[New_Wineskin]

quote
He is smart enough to know that no one believes that financial dollars are gauranteed, in the technically narrow sense that you just placed it. He put the OP in those words to engender debate, as this is a debate suforum. And he did a good job.


If no one believed it , no one would be defending it - or intentionally lying by changing the word into something else in order to defend the idea or refute someone else . It would simply be left alone . Or , there would be an admission that it was not guaranteed and explain the difference between that word and the word that they would use . But , that would be off topic as the topic deals with a "guarantee" . A promise would be good enough . But , again , there is no such promise from the Lord because the Lord would keep such a promise and we would all be wealthy .

If none believed it , there would be no opposition in the thread . Unless ... you think the barkers are that stupid to simply argue about something that they know isn't true .

 

[JimfromOhio]

quote
He is smart enough to know that no one believes that financial dollars are gauranteed, in the technically narrow sense that you just placed it. He put the OP in those words to engender debate, as this is a debate suforum. And he did a good job.


If no one believed it , no one would be defending it - or intentionally lying by changing the word into something else in order to defend the idea or refute someone else . It would simply be left alone . Or , there would be an admission that it was not guaranteed and explain the difference between that word and the word that they would use . But , that would be off topic as the topic deals with a "guarantee" . A promise would be good enough . But , again , there is no such promise from the Lord because the Lord would keep such a promise and we would all be wealthy .

If none believed it , there would be no opposition in the thread . Unless ... you think the barkers are that stupid to simply argue about something that they know isn't true .

Good points.

 

[dkbwarrior]

If no one believed it , no one would be defending it

No one is...

Please show me a post where someone sad that it was gauranteed..

Or , there would be an admission that it was not guaranteed and explain the difference between that word and the word that they would use .

You mean like this:

No, all of God's promises are CONDITIONAL.

Or this:

Not gauranteed, any more than salvation or healing, but certainly promised. And I don't think I would use the term 'financial $$', but rather 'wealth', as God is not a counterfeiter. That is against the law.

Didn't both of those posts, (as well as several others in this thread), do just that?

But , that would be off topic as the topic deals with a "guarantee" . A promise would be good enough . But , again , there is no such promise from the Lord...

Really? What exactly are these then:

9For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
-2 Corinthians 8:9​

18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

-Deuteronomy 8:18​

1 Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.

3 Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
-Psalm 112:1, 3​

13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
-Proverbs 3:13, 16​

12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
-Proverbs 8:12, 18​

4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.

-Proverbs 22:4​

3 Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established:

4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.
-Proverbs 24:3-4​

22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

-Proverbs 13:22​

6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

7 For your shame ye shall have double…
-Isaiah 61:6-7​

5Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces [riches] of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

-Isaiah 60:5​

11Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces [riches] of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

-Isaiah 60:11​

9O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

-Psalm 34:9​

1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

-Psalm 23:1​

10The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing.

-Psalm 34:10​

38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

-Luke 6:38​

8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
-2 Corinthians 9:8-11​

because the Lord would keep such a promise and we would all be wealthy.​

Hmmm...

Like the Lord promises to give his children perfect peace? Why then are so many christians divorced? For that matter, why are they stressed at all? Wouldn't we all just walk around like floating clouds, perfectly at peace all the time?

Or do we have to appropriate His peace by using the Word and faith to walk in His promises?

Promises are not automatic. They must be received day by day.

Peace...

 

[dkbwarrior]

Good points.

I guess, if you take into consideration that not one of them is true...

Peace...

 

[JimfromOhio]

No one is...

Please show me a post where someone sad that it was gauranteed..



You mean like this:



Or this:



Didn't both of those posts, (as well as several others in this thread), do just that?



Really? What exactly are these then:

9For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
-2 Corinthians 8:9​

18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

-Deuteronomy 8:18​

1 Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.

3 Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
-Psalm 112:1, 3​

13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
-Proverbs 3:13, 16​

12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
-Proverbs 8:12, 18​

4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.

-Proverbs 22:4​

3 Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established:

4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.
-Proverbs 24:3-4​

22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

-Proverbs 13:22​

6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

7 For your shame ye shall have double…
-Isaiah 61:6-7​

5Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces [riches] of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

-Isaiah 60:5​

11Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces [riches] of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

-Isaiah 60:11​

9O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

-Psalm 34:9​

1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

-Psalm 23:1​

10The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing.

-Psalm 34:10​

38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

-Luke 6:38​

8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
-2 Corinthians 9:8-11​

Hmmm...

Like the Lord promises to give his children perfect peace? Why then are so many christians divorced? For that matter, why are they stressed at all? Wouldn't we all just walk around like floating clouds, perfectly at peace all the time?

Or do we have to appropriate His peace by using the Word and faith to walk in His promises?

Promises are not automatic. They must be received day by day.

Peace...

The Bible provides a clear understanding of genuine saving faith-true faith produces good fruit. It is great to know that God produces maturity in all believers who are abiding in Christ and in His Word. Love is NOT conditional however discipleship is conditional. Abiding in Christ evidences genuine salvation through the works of the Holy Spirit, not self-work of faith that have formats set by man's doctrines. Abiding in Faith means to endure without yielding, to accept without objection, to remain stable or fixed in a state, to continue in a place. The word "abide" basically means "to remain." A true Christian abides. We depend on Him for grace and power to obey. We look obediently to His Word for instruction on how to live according to HIS WILL, NOT WHAT we WANT.

 

[seekthetruth909]

Can you tell me why you deny the truth of 2 Cor. 9:6-12 based on your own personal prooftexts? Are you saying that the passage never worked for Paul even though he is the very one that taught it?

2 Corinthians 9:6-12 (NIV)
Sowing Generously
6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:
"He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor;
his righteousness endures forever."[a] 10 Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.
12This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God's people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God.

Let's look at Cor 9. I have highlighted key phrases.In verse 8, Having all you need, is not the same as being rich. In verse 9 and 10, it is clear that giving is rewarded in a harvest of righteousness, or spiritual riches.

In verse 11 you do have a point, rich in every way does seem to indicate financial riches besides spiritual riches,but is Paul speaking specifically to the Corinth church which was known for their riches?

In 1Cor 4,2 Cor 6, and Hebrews 11, Paul speaks of how poor he and the other apostles are. As a matter of fact in 1Cor 4, Paul seems to be criticizing the first Christian prosperity doctrine by making a point of how much he and the other apostles are poor and suffering for the gospel.Then we have dozens of other scriptures supporting this view.

Matthew 6:19-21 1 Timothy 6:17-18 1 Timothy 6:3-10 1 Peter 5:2 1 Corinthians 9 17 2 Corinthians 2 17 Acts 20 33 James 4:3 Matt.19:23-24
Luke 12:15 Heb. 13:5 Col. 3:2 2 Corinthians 11:12-14 Matthew 24:11 Matthew 24:24 2 Corinthians 11:12-14 2 Peter 2:1 James 5:1-3 1 John 4:1-7

The evidence is overwhelming. Taking one line form 2 Cor 9:11, [which seems to directed at a specific rich church] and basing a doctrine around it, when there are so many scriptures that show that $$ prosperity is not guaranteed, does not seem logical or biblical.

I can accept a prosperity doctrine that is not guaranteed or based on faith. [since the apostles own poverty prove that faith has no bearing on prosperity]
Sometimes God may choose to prosper a person, but to claim that only Christians in America and a dozen other western countries have faith because of their high standard of living, and third world Christians are poor, because of their lack of faith, is completely untrue. If that were true we could tie faith to economics. When America is booming we have faith and when in recession we have less faith. [Then Wof must be having a faith crises recently because they are paying a lot more for gas and food and in the process becoming poorer.]

Apostle Paul criticized the church at Corinth because they were becoming deceived by a prosperity doctrine so he told them to give generously and they would reap a harvest, but he also told them of the true riches and faith he and the other apostles had, by wearing rags, suffering from hunger, living in caves, and being martyrs for Christ. Trusting in God no matter how bad things get is true faith, and keeping our eye on the true riches that await in heaven, rather than earthly things, is true prosperity.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Sometimes God may choose to prosper a person, but to claim that only Christians in America and a dozen other western countries have faith because of their high standard of living, and third world Christians are poor, because of their lack of faith, is completely untrue. If that were true we could tie faith to economics.

Well, then you should go to my church, or Kenneth Copelands, or even Creflo Dollars, because none of us believe this either. Of course, if you actually read these threads, you would know that, unless you are being purposefly dishonest.

Apostle Paul criticized the church at Corinth because they were becoming deceived by a prosperity doctrine...

That sounds inventive. You have an artists imagination. Good for you. Could you show me where this is said?

Peace...