Is evidence of aliens evidence for evolution or something else?

[stevevw]

I recently watched a special on TV called "Under Investigation" produced by 60 Minutes Australia. They had experts on the panel as well as eye witness military pilots testimony and data from surveillance devices across a range of equipment. This was evidence released by the US government recently admitting that there are what they now call "Unidentified Arial Objects". They admit they are solid objects that defy our current technology.

So that got me thinking if they are more advanced intelligent alien life where did they come from. Did they evolve or are they part of Gods creation. How would a creationist rationalize this into creation theory. How would a Christian rationalize this into redemption.

If aliens did evolve which I think would be fairly probable if evolution happened without any divine guidance then does this disprove creation theory. Or maybe these aliens are very smart but lack the image of God or that its part of Satan's ploy to fool the world before his coming.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Isn't it a bit early for speculations? An "unidentified aerial object" doesn't give much information to base a theory on. We don't even know whether there is life in/on those objects.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I recently watched a special on TV called "Under Investigation" produced by 60 Minutes Australia. They had experts on the panel as well as eye witness military pilots testimony and data from surveillance devices across a range of equipment. This was evidence released by the US government recently admitting that there are what they now call "Unidentified Arial Objects". They admit they are solid objects that defy our current technology.

So that got me thinking if they are more advanced intelligent alien life where did they come from. Did they evolve or are they part of Gods creation. How would a creationist rationalize this into creation theory. How would a Christian rationalize this into redemption.

If aliens did evolve which I think would be fairly probable if evolution happened without any divine guidance then does this disprove creation theory. Or maybe these aliens are very smart but lack the image of God or that its part of Satan's ploy to fool the world before his coming.

I'll hop on if one day someone actually identifies something. That being said, everything is God's creation.
Blessings

 

[Leaf473]

I recently watched a special on TV called "Under Investigation" produced by 60 Minutes Australia. They had experts on the panel as well as eye witness military pilots testimony and data from surveillance devices across a range of equipment. This was evidence released by the US government recently admitting that there are what they now call "Unidentified Arial Objects". They admit they are solid objects that defy our current technology.

So that got me thinking if they are more advanced intelligent alien life where did they come from. Did they evolve or are they part of Gods creation. How would a creationist rationalize this into creation theory. How would a Christian rationalize this into redemption.

If aliens did evolve which I think would be fairly probable if evolution happened without any divine guidance then does this disprove creation theory. Or maybe these aliens are very smart but lack the image of God or that its part of Satan's ploy to fool the world before his coming.

Great thread topic!

One possibility is it might not be evidence of aliens but evidence of time travel. Maybe those are humans from the future.

Myself, I don't really see a conflict between the core beliefs in Christianity and the existence of aliens.

 

[miamited]

Hi @stevevw

I must agree with @Friedrich Rubinstein. We're a long way from having any actual and factual evidence of there even being any extraterrestrial life out there. Yes, there are some interesting photos and claimed sightings that might make us say, "Hmmmmm", but that's a long way from factual evidence that supports extraterrestrial life.

Personally, and yes I readily admit this is my own understanding of the work of God, we live in a created realm of existence created by a God who creates creatures to love and have a relationship with. I believe this is exampled in both this realm of His creating as well as the realm of His creating in which the angels live. Both realms were created to sustain the life of the creatures that He desires to have the previously mentioned relationship with.

The earth was created and built by God to have everything needed to sustain the life of man. A creature that God made in His image to have a loving and nurturing and interdependent relationship with. Just as with the angelic realm, it seems that God desires to spend time with His angels and has created a realm that also sustains their life.

But, from all the evidences in the Scriptures, I believe that the earth is the only body of the universe that has creature life upon it. As God's word tells us, the heavens declare the Glory of God. The heavens were not made to sustain other life forms, but to declare, to those of us living upon the earth as we look up to them, the glory and wonder and awesome power and wisdom and knowledge of the great and loving God that we know.

So, before I'm ready to really even discuss the matter of alien life and what it might or might not say to us, I'm going to wait and see if we ever find any first. Because I don't believe it's out there. If I'm right? Then no, there are no aliens that would make any statement to us about origins or evolutionary processes.

God bless,
Ted

 

[stevevw]

Isn't it a bit early for speculations? An "unidentified aerial object" doesn't give much information to base a theory on. We don't even know whether there is life in/on those objects.

But the technology to have such objects is only something intelligent beings would have. Its either human made or made by some other intelligent being. Natural occurrences have been ruled out because the objects have been scientifically verified as solid. They move with intention so something is going on and the tech is far beyond what we could have even the Chinese.

Military says these types of sightings have been going on for years, they have just become more frequent. So I don't think any nation could have such tech as to achieve this level you would also be advanced is most other ways and we see no evidence of this from any Nation. But then maybe some nation has hidden their tech for years. Its hard to say. I was only pestering about it, that's why I asked the questions.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

But the technology to have such objects is only something intelligent beings would have. Its either human made or made by some other intelligent being. Natural occurrences have been ruled out because the objects have been scientifically verified as solid. They move with intention so something is going on and the tech is far beyond what we could have even the Chinese.

Military says these types of sightings have been going on for years, they have just become more frequent. So I don't think any nation could have such tech as to achieve this level you would also be advanced is most other ways and we see no evidence of this from any Nation. But then maybe some nation has hidden their tech for years. Its hard to say. I was only pestering about it, that's why I asked the questions.

We don't know what "tech" these unidentified objects use, or if they use tech at all. All we know is that they don't use any way of flying that we know of. If God decided to let a piece of metal fly around then this would be an "unidentified aerial object" with "unknown tech" as well. We shouldn't make early assumptions imho.

 

[stevevw]

Great thread topic!

One possibility is it might not be evidence of aliens but evidence of time travel. Maybe those are humans from the future.

Yes that's a possibility if we think of what some claim with quantum physics. Another possibility is Nick Bostrom Simulation hypothesis - Wikipedia which Elon Musk thinks is a good possibility. This is based on future humans becoming so advanced that they create life like simulations which we are experiencing now. They could play all sorts of tricks on us.
What is the simulation hypothesis? Why some think life is a simulated reality

Myself, I don't really see a conflict between the core beliefs in Christianity and the existence of aliens.

Why not. What if there are conscious beings like us out there. Do they also need redemption. If so I cannot imagine Christ being crucified twice or more on different planets. I don't think distant beings could hear the message of redemption from earth.

I think its important that Christ came and resurrected on earth. We have the history and relevance that connects us. That's why I think if there are aliens then maybe they are just very smart animals without a soul.

 

[stevevw]

We don't know what "tech" these unidentified objects use, or if they use tech at all. All we know is that they don't use any way of flying that we know of. If God decided to let a piece of metal fly around then this would be an "unidentified aerial object" with "unknown tech" as well. We shouldn't make early assumptions imho.

I am not really making any assumptions but rather posing the questions to nut out the possibilities. I'm interested in what you mean by "If God decided to let a piece of metal fly around".

 

[miamited]

Hi @stevevw

But the technology to have such objects is only something intelligent beings would have.

So what? Humans aren't intelligent beings? Look, the other day there was a report on my news about a UFO. Turns out it was a weather balloon and that it's reflectiveness with the sun shining on it, much like the moon, it looked as some super brilliant round object in the sky. Now, you take something like that and it hits some upward level strong wind forces and it quickly seems to move one way and then almost immediately moves just as quickly in some other direction because it happens to have found a confluence of winds blowing in different directions. We see the same thing happen in sea currents at particular places in the oceans. Where the currents collide and things floating on them just go in all different directions.

So, I'm not saying that this does answer every example that has ever been witnessed. But I am saying, that there may be fairly normal explanations for some of these sightings that, because we don't know exactly what's going on in the atmosphere where the objects are, seem weird to us. What I know, is that as yet, we don't have any factual, verifiable evidence that somewhere out there is a planet of living human-like creatures.

But as I said, there are certainly some that make us go "Hmmm", but as yet, no proof that any of it isn't some phenomenon created by some object of earthly origin.

God bless,
Ted

 

[trophy33]

The existence of aliens as such is not another evidence for evolution. But their planet's fossils and their DNA (or some similar thing) could contain evidence that they too evolved from animals.

 

[stevevw]

Hi @stevevw

I must agree with @Friedrich Rubinstein. We're a long way from having any actual and factual evidence of there even being any extraterrestrial life out there. Yes, there are some interesting photos and claimed sightings that might make us say, "Hmmmmm", but that's a long way from factual evidence that supports extraterrestrial life.

Personally, and yes I readily admit this is my own understanding of the work of God, we live in a created realm of existence created by a God who creates creatures to love and have a relationship with. I believe this is exampled in both this realm of His creating as well as the realm of His creating in which the angels live. Both realms were created to sustain the life of the creatures that He desires to have the previously mentioned relationship with.

The earth was created and built by God to have everything needed to sustain the life of man. A creature that God made in His image to have a loving and nurturing and interdependent relationship with. Just as with the angelic realm, it seems that God desires to spend time with His angels and has created a realm that also sustains their life.

But, from all the evidences in the Scriptures, I believe that the earth is the only body of the universe that has creature life upon it. As God's word tells us, the heavens declare the Glory of God. The heavens were not made to sustain other life forms, but to declare, to those of us living upon the earth as we look up to them, the glory and wonder and awesome power and wisdom and knowledge of the great and loving God that we know.

So, before I'm ready to really even discuss the matter of alien life and what it might or might not say to us, I'm going to wait and see if we ever find any first. Because I don't believe it's out there. If I'm right? Then no, there are no aliens that would make any statement to us about origins or evolutionary processes.

God bless,
Ted

Thanks Ted, some interesting thoughts. Do you think that angles be it good or bad can enter our dimension and perhaps this is maybe what we are seeing.

We have certain facts coming from the Military which has never happened before. They have finally admitted that there is something solid that defies our tech moving in our air space. Unlike other conspiracies I thought this was a significant event unless the Military is going along with some hoax.

I agree this doesn't mean there are aliens. But it does pose an interesting situation for us to find out where they are coming from and where they go.

 

[Norbert L]

I recently watched a special on TV called "Under Investigation" produced by 60 Minutes Australia. They had experts on the panel as well as eye witness military pilots testimony and data from surveillance devices across a range of equipment. This was evidence released by the US government recently admitting that there are what they now call "Unidentified Arial Objects". They admit they are solid objects that defy our current technology.

So that got me thinking if they are more advanced intelligent alien life where did they come from. Did they evolve or are they part of Gods creation. How would a creationist rationalize this into creation theory. How would a Christian rationalize this into redemption.

If aliens did evolve which I think would be fairly probable if evolution happened without any divine guidance then does this disprove creation theory. Or maybe these aliens are very smart but lack the image of God or that its part of Satan's ploy to fool the world before his coming.

Christian theologians and philosophers have been arguing that an omnipotent God is capable of creating multiple worlds that do not necessarily have a population in need of salvation since around the 12th century. It's not a brand new idea, we have the documentation that a real expert would be aware of.

Dr. Michael Heiser specializes in using what most people think as strange and bazaar in order to preach the gospel to a significant amount of people who are unlike most, attracted to some far out and even to the point of conspiracy ideas. Here's his webpage: Dr. Michael Heiser - Biblical Scholar | Author | Semitic Languages Expert and here's his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/FringePop321

The way I see it many people will claim this is proof that we now know that God doesn't exist. Which is something that isn't new nor proof. I'll tell you what isn't new and it comes from a confession in that video just after the 32 minute mark. Scientists will make grand claims in order to receive grands of funding.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I am not really making any assumptions but rather posing the questions to nut out the possibilities. I'm interested in what you mean by "If God decided to let a piece of metal fly around".

Well, your thread's question is based on the assumption that aliens are actually real We couldn't answer the question about Creation and evolution without assuming the existence of aliens.

We have to make a choice: either we trust what God himself said (in the Bible) - or we rely on other humans, called scientists, and what they think about reality.
If we trust the God of the Bible then we don't have to explain everything from a scientific point of view. God is very well able to do things that defy the laws of physics - and we can't tell God that he shouldn't do such things.

In addition to that there is an interesting passage in the Bible, Deut 13:1-3, which reads:
"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul."
I believe God tests our faith in different ways. May it be "unbiblical prophecy", may it be suffering, may it be unbiblical science.

 

[stevevw]

Hi @stevevw



So what? Humans aren't intelligent beings? Look, the other day there was a report on my news about a UFO. Turns out it was a weather balloon and that it's reflectiveness with the sun shining on it, much like the moon, it looked as some super brilliant round object in the sky. Now, you take something like that and it hits some upward level strong wind forces and it quickly seems to move one way and then almost immediately moves just as quickly in some other direction because it happens to have found a confluence of winds blowing in different directions. We see the same thing happen in sea currents at particular places in the oceans. Where the currents collide and things floating on them just go in all different directions.

So, I'm not saying that this does answer every example that has ever been witnessed. But I am saying, that there may be fairly normal explanations for some of these sightings that, because we don't know exactly what's going on in the atmosphere where the objects are, seem weird to us. What I know, is that as yet, we don't have any factual, verifiable evidence that somewhere out there is a planet of living human-like creatures.

But as I said, there are certainly some that make us go "Hmmm", but as yet, no proof that any of it isn't some phenomenon created by some object of earthly origin.

God bless,
Ted

I agree many sightings have a natural explanation. But what makes this different is that

1) the Military has always denied UFO's period and now they have finally admitted there is something they cannot explain which cannot be attributed to anything natural.
2) that they have hard evidence from radar and other measuring devices and that they are solid and around 2 or 3 meters. Solid items unless very light cannot float with the wind.
3) that pilots have had near misses with them (500 meters) and seen them up close. Numerous independent sightings describing the same thing which was also recorded on their instruments and on the instruments from the aircraft carriers at the same time.

They described these objects as being like a metallic cube inside a translucent sphere. Now I know there's some nutters out there and it may be mass hallucination or it may be some some advanced tech from some nation and any of this doesn't prove there are aliens.

IMO I am a skeptic of UFO's and also think there is no intelligent life in the universe but this has got me very interested and a bit rattled as I think its unprecedented.

 

[Think...]

I recently watched a special on TV called "Under Investigation" produced by 60 Minutes Australia. They had experts on the panel as well as eye witness military pilots testimony and data from surveillance devices across a range of equipment. This was evidence released by the US government recently admitting that there are what they now call "Unidentified Arial Objects". They admit they are solid objects that defy our current technology.

So that got me thinking if they are more advanced intelligent alien life where did they come from. Did they evolve or are they part of Gods creation. How would a creationist rationalize this into creation theory. How would a Christian rationalize this into redemption.

If aliens did evolve which I think would be fairly probable if evolution happened without any divine guidance then does this disprove creation theory. Or maybe these aliens are very smart but lack the image of God or that its part of Satan's ploy to fool the world before his coming.

There's only one other type of being that exists in the world besides mankind since the very beginning.

That is the divine angelic kingdom of beings. Referred to as gods from time immemorial. Demons are fallen angels and, as such, they can do almost anything and appear as almost anything. They are malicious tricksters and deceivers. They should not be disregarded for any reason in our modern world.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes that's a possibility if we think of what some claim with quantum physics. Another possibility is Nick Bostrom Simulation hypothesis - Wikipedia which Elon Musk thinks is a good possibility. This is based on future humans becoming so advanced that they create life like simulations which we are experiencing now. They could play all sorts of tricks on us.
What is the simulation hypothesis? Why some think life is a simulated reality

Why not. What if there are conscious beings like us out there. Do they also need redemption. If so I cannot imagine Christ being crucified twice or more on different planets. I don't think distant beings could hear the message of redemption from earth.

I think its important that Christ came and resurrected on earth. We have the history and relevance that connects us. That's why I think if there are aliens then maybe they are just very smart animals without a soul.

Yes, they could be like intelligent animals without a soul. Another possibility is that they could be like the humans who lived and died a thousand years ago in North America. They never heard the gospel, but God will find a way to deal with them in Justice and mercy.

 

[miamited]

Hi @stevevw

IMO I am a skeptic of UFO's and also think there is no intelligent life in the universe but this has got me very interested and a bit rattled as I think its unprecedented.

I agree, that there are a few such sightings that cause one to go "Hmmm". However, just because we aren't able to pin some 'natural' reasoning to any specific and individual sighting, isn't yet proof that they are of extraterrestrial origin.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

HI @stevevw

Thanks Ted, some interesting thoughts. Do you think that angles be it good or bad can enter our dimension and perhaps this is maybe what we are seeing.

I'm going to assume that you meant to write 'angels'. I believe that the Scriptures are quite clear that angels can enter our dimension. As to whether or not they provide any explanation for the various phenomenon under discussion in this thread, would once again be only a guess.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again @stevevw

Consider the causes and appearance of the phenomenon known as the aurora borealis. Science tells us:

The lights we see in the night sky are in actual fact caused by activity on the surface of the Sun. Solar storms on our star's surface give out huge clouds of electrically charged particles. ... The aurora's characteristic wavy patterns and 'curtains' of light are caused by the lines of force in the Earth's magnetic field.

They are quite obviously 'lights' in the sky as seen by our eyes, but their cause is something that we really don't have any deep knowledge of. It's possible that some of these sightings are of a similar nature. They don't happen all the time, but once in awhile the 'stars align', so to speak, and we see various and sundry apparitions in the atmosphere that find their cause in various changes in said atmosphere. According to the above explanation, the earth's magnetic field plays a role in what we see as the lights of the aurora borealis. Perhaps some similar effect of the earth's magnetic field also displays reflections of light that appear to us as UFO's.

Just a guess, of course, but certainly a possibility to also be examined as we look for the source of such sightings. Personally, I find that, IF these sightings are really visitations to our atmosphere of obviously much wiser beings than we are. Based on their technology to move about the universe, why wouldn't they make some attempt to communicate with us? That's the question that always befuddles me.

I mean, if we suppose that some of these sightings are actually alien beings from some other galaxy or planet of our own solar system (highly unlikely since I believe we can pretty well see any activity on the planets of our solar system) then we have to make some assumptions. First of all, since we do have more than one such unexplained sighting, they have apparently visited us more than once. Now, are they just visitors from one life structure on one other heavenly body? Or, are we being visited by visitors from many different life structures throughout the universe? Why would they come so near to us as to be visible within our atmosphere but make no attempt to contact us? I mean, surely if they are so much wiser than us to have already figured out the ability to move about in the universe with some high speed accuracy to re-visit one planet, then they must have some way of communicating that they would have at least tried, in order to communicate with us.

These are the issues that I see, that while some of the sightings cause me to go "Hmmmm", my mind surely thinks that there is more likely to be some natural explanation rather than some extraterrestrial one. We just haven't figured it out yet. Unlike the aurora borealis which occurs regularly and can, therefore, be studied at length as to their cause, these intermittent and very, very short unexplained sightings aren't around long enough for us to do any hard investigation as to their source.

God bless,
Ted