Is everything "meaningless" without God?

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

So this really didn't have anything to do with the fact that humans give meaning to their lives, which means that a god, or God or GOD isn't necessary.

Now, as far as your analogy goes, "one must imagine Sisyphus happy"...

I provided some clarification in the op. I suggest you read it so we are on the same page. My apologies if I wasn't clear.

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[Hieronymus]

Edit: apparently there is some confusion on what the word "meaningless" means. The Hebrew word used for meaningless is הָ֫בֶל "hebel" which means futility, pointlessness, or fruitlessness.

Sounds pretty meaningless to me..

It has nothing to do with the purpose of something but rather what the end result of something.

Uhm... Is there really a difference between purpose and end result?

An example would be a man trying to build a house next to the ocean and every day for the rest of his life the tide came in and swept his work away. The purpose of his work is to build a house. However, what does he have to show for all his labor in the end?

He has the memory and he has learned from the experience.
But if he dies, and if humanity, with which he could have shared his experience, is no more, dies out (because the sun burns up for example) then it's all for not, pointless and lost.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

A better analogy would have been a man building a house on a cliff face. Eventually, the cliff will crumble to erosion and the house will be gone, but before that, there will be decades, if not centuries of time for people to live in that house and enjoy the spectacular view.

Otherwise, why build houses at all? They all eventually go decrepit.

Postulating a being that waits at the end of time and rewards every house builder because he just likes the concept doesn't help.

But if when you die, all the memories of that beautiful house with the splendid views fade into non-existance along with your consciousness, it would be no different than as if it never existed at all.

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[Freodin]

Edit: apparently there is some confusion on what the word "meaningless" means. The Hebrew word used for meaningless is הָ֫בֶל "hebel" which means futility, pointlessness, or fruitlessness. It has nothing to do with the purpose of something but rather what the end result of something.

An example would be a man trying to build a house next to the ocean and every day for the rest of his life the tide came in and swept his work away. The purpose of his work is to build a house. However, what does he have to show for all his labor in the end?

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In your example, he had a house as he build it. All his life.

But you still fail to see the alternative.
There is a man trying to build a house on a rock. He builds it, it stands.

He now has a house. So what's the point in having a house? He has a house to show for all his labour, a house that will stand for eternity. So what is the point in having a house to show for all his labour?

At some point, you have to reach the conclusion: this is the end and means in itself. And for that, you do not need eternity.

 

[Grafted In]

Quite simply there is God. Speculation as to what would be without Him is meaningless. He is therefore we exist.


Nevermind. I hadn't noticed this was the philosophy forum. Carry on.

Good luck making any sense of your search.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I'd like you to read and consider the post I made above:

You keep searching for something where it doesn't exist. Meaning and purpose always implies an active and intentful mind. Without it, it simply doesn't exist. With it, it does exist.

Inseperable.

So why is "meaning" and "purpose" so important to you that you must have it, even if there is no you to have it?

I provided an edit to the op to give more clarification.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I said in your own words and in the context of this discussion. I'm not asking Webster. He's not here right now.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I provided an edit to the op to give you some clarification.

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[Eudaimonist]

I'd like to change that a little bit:
"It is my nature as a living being that makes my life meaningful to me, because of how I feel."

Sure, but only for yourself. I don't think that meaning in life must be tied to feelings, but it certainly can be for human beings in particular.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Freodin]

I provided an edit to the op to give more clarification.

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Sorry, this is a kind of behaviour in a debate like this that I absolutely cannot stand.

You made some kind of assertion. We spend days debating this assertion, the follow-ups, the conclusions and consequences.

And now you think we will go back to the OP - trying to sift through everything to find out what you "clarified"... and then start the whole process again.

No, thank you. If you have something to clarify, just add it to the discussion. If you want to play the "edit" version, I could very well edit one of my posts here to "clarify" something that no-one will ever take notice of.

 

[Freodin]

You may make your own argument. I'm sticking to mine.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Ah, sorry, sometimes I forget you are an objectivist.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

What is so great (or necessary) about being remembered by others?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Because for atheism, that is the only way you can "live on" after death. Once your family and friends dies and there is nobody left to remember you, the world would be no different than had you never existed at all. Your whole life is no different than the life of a bacterium.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The purpose of life is found within life, not after life. Life is an end-in-itself.

This is the horrible nihilism of Christianity. It tries to make this life a mere means to the end of an afterlife, thus draining this life of meaning when taken from the Christian context.

It's like this life becomes an unpleasant examination one must pass in order to graduate to the right afterlife. Life -- this life -- is devalued into a pure means.



All for the lives we do, in fact, lead.


eudaimonia,

Mark

According to atheism, all life was a byproduct by nature by natural means. Thus has no created purpose. It just exists and has the same level of purpose as a rock you find on the beach. So, what is the purpose of life? I am not asking about your life. But life in general.

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[Eudaimonist]

An example would be a man trying to build a house next to the ocean and every day for the rest of his life the tide came in and swept his work away. The purpose of his work is to build a house. However, what does he have to show for all his labor in the end?

A better example would be that he built and maintained a house next to the ocean. One day, he died, and the house, now abandoned, was consumed by the rising ocean.

He accomplished his purpose of living his dream of staying in a house of his creation and choosing next to the ocean. After he died, it was of no consequence to him what happened to his house. The context of his achievement was his life, and he succeeded magnificently!


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Freodin]

According to atheism, all life was a byproduct by nature by natural means. Thus has no created purpose. It just exists and has the same level of purpose as a rock you find on the beach. So, what is the purpose of life? I am not asking about your life. But life in general.

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Purpose requires intent. Intent requires an intentful being. And vice versa... as soon as you have an intentful being, you get purpose.

So there is no - can be no - purpose of life outside of intentful "living" beings. And there always will be a purpose of life within the group of intentful "living" beings.

So life doesn't have a created purpose... purpose was created by life.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

No one disputes that life will be meaningless "in the end" after life no longer exists.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Read the thread. There are several people who are arguing that very thing.

 

[Eudaimonist]

According to atheism, all life was a byproduct by nature by natural means. Thus has no created purpose. It just exists and has the same level of purpose as a rock you find on the beach.

"Atheism" says no such thing. That is a straw man.

So, what is the purpose of life? I am not asking about your life. But life in general.

Life is the purpose of life. More specifically, the actualization of a living entity's potentials, such as through growth and maturation. Life is a self-sustaining process. It aims at more of itself, as far as its biological potentials and circumstances allow. It is the living thing's existence that is life's most basic purpose.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

Read the thread. There are several people who are arguing that very thing.

Post numbers please. I have been following the thread and not seen it even once.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Freodin]

Read the thread. There are several people who are arguing that very thing.

What people are arguing against is the notion that life "going to be" meaningless when there is no life means that life "is" meaningless as long as there is life.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Because for atheism, that is the only way you can "live on" after death.

What does that have to do with meaning in life?

Once your family and friends dies and there is nobody left to remember you, the world would be no different than had you never existed at all.

So? What does that have to do with meaning in life?

Your whole life is no different than the life of a bacterium.

No, I will have lived a human life. That will be true for the rest of eternity.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

It isn't futile "in the end". There is no ultimate goal "at the end". It is meaninful "until the end".

Why do you need your life to be meaningful?

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