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Is doing martial arts allowed for a christian?

Lee52

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Anybody here who does karate, kung fun, wing tsun or something else? Does this always involve occult practices such as meditation?
I also heard that some of those moves you do actually have a deeper meaning and basically are a call for demonic strength, is this true? :confused:

Please read Psalms 1, 39, 48, 77, 119, 143, & 145.

I took Tae Kwon Do when I was in the Marine Corps. I taught police unarmed self-defense as a police officer which had moves and strikes grounded in martial arts, but none of the stuff I studied or taught had any occult concepts to them.

I cannot answer for that which was outside of my experience. Sorry.
 
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Zalu

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I was never able to do martial arts, but I have a few friends who do karate and tae kwon do! I don't think meditation is occult unless you focus on worldly or demonic things. I'm not so sure about the calling for demonic strength... I wouldn't think so, but you never know. If God tells you to stop doing it for any reason, then stop. Go until you get a no!
 
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shinkou

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Chi is a part of Tae Kwon Do too. It is a part of almost every martial art that comes from Asia. I have done Aikido for a long time. Although we meditate, we can meditate on the thing that we want. I know that for me and for the other Christians, that do martial arts we meditate on God, or on the Bible.

I met some missionaries from Canada that used Tae Kwon Do to make a connection with people here in Asia. Martial arts is not demonic or evil in the way that a gun is not evil. It is about how the person decides to use it. Most martial arts focus on teaching things like self-control, respect, and good manner. Most teachers will tell you if you want to learn to fight, thenget out of here. Go fight in a bar or on the street. Here is to learn about avoiding conflict.

Chi is not demonic or occult either. It is using breathing technique and concentration to focus your strength. It is not strength that comes from anywhere outside of you. Everything used is what God gives to you.

Martial arts from Asia often have some background from Asian religion. But that is not the necessary thing when you perform them.
 
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dvanderdeen

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I have to agree with Shinkou o a lot of this issue. I have practiced Tae Kwon Do, Jujitsu and Judo. I've been participating in these martial arts for years and have felt no threat from them to my faith. Likewise, in times when I meditate, I meditate on God. I went to a Christian university where many students participated in Tae Kwon Do, and the Korean man that taught the class is a Catholic. He personally practices 9 martial arts, including different forms of Kungfu.

We often performed in demonstrations to raise money for Churches, hospitals, and Christian organizations. Martial arts can be used for the glory of God. Although I never participated myself, I did know some people that went into the missionfield using Tae Kwon Do to reach people. It's quite likely that Shinkou met some of my friends out there.

You do not need to be afraid of Martial arts. If it concerns you a lot, see if you can find a Christian teacher, or other Christian students to practice with. You will likely find it to be a very rewarding experience.
 
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crespo

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Ok, but what is this "chi"? From my understanding you can gather it and direct it to different body parts. What is it? Something like life force? I don't think that this is compatible with the bible. I have seen documentaries where they showed kung fu monks who could direct their chi into their stomach for example before receiving a punch and this way not be injured. How can this be rationally explained? It also seems to have a lot to do with breathing. For example when somebody is hit in the stomach with a stick then he concentrates and after he has been hit he exhales and it looks like he releases the energy which he has absorbed. I find this fascinating but at the same time I ask myself if this doesn't have any negative side effects especially when you have to do breathing exercises it might open you up to demons when you have to control your breathing in an unnatural way.
It's basically the same as people walking over hot coals and not get burnt or people sticking nails through their skin and not feeling anything. To me this always seemed occult.

And what I also ask myself is even if you could do kung fu or other MAs without engaging and embracing eastern mysticism then I wonder if you could be as good at is as those who also get into the whole spiritual stuff. What if they really have demonic "super powers"?
 
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shinkou

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If you are doing a Martial art to be the best at it, then you are doing it for the wrong reason. Martial Arts is really about is self growth and personal development. You shouldn't be learning it if you just want to learn about how to fight. You shouldn't care about if you are as good as the other person.

There may be some mysticism used by some of the monks that do Kungfu, I do not know well about that. But, learning to breathe properly, and control your body is not the same thing as demonic possession.
 
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ahzmort

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yeah, you are Definately not going to get possessed by simply doing breathing exercises.
Far as chi goes, i'm in the 'something just doesn't seem right' category. Looked up the word chi & here are some explanations:
CHI is the term for the universal energy, or the energy that permeates everything around us. This feng shui term applies to the energy inside your body, as well to the energy inside and outside of buildings. - feng shui / about . com
the circulating life energy that in Chinese philosophy is thought to be inherent in all things. - princeton . edu
entral to Taoist world-view and practice is qi (chi). Qi is life-force -- that which animates the forms of the world. It is the vibratory nature of phenomena -- the flow and tremoring that is happening continuously at molecular, atomic and sub-atomic levels. - taoism / about . com
the invisible life force or vital energy that flows through all living things. It is thought to be inherited and also derived from food and air. - alternative medicine / about . com
i dunno... a 'life force' that permeates everything around us that we can tap into. sounds pretty iffy.
 
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azureblue00

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I personally am a Blue Belt in Northern Shaolin Kung Fu. Though I also study Ju-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, and Okinawan Kobudo (weaponry).

My instructor is a very devout Christian, and incorporates that into his teaching.

Martial Arts in and of itself is completely neutral. What we study is the techniques, and the fitness, and mindset for martial arts.

There is no demon conjuring, or occult meditations.

I personally (not part of the class corriculum btw.) do meditate sometimes. Not conjuring, or opening myself up to any influences.

I'm just sitting down in a quiet room, and listening to the sounds around me, and my own breathing, and just relaxing my (very stressed) mind.

So, martial arts, in and of itself, is great to study. It's all a matter of the dojo. If a dojo is encouraging occult things, than find another one, 'cause most dojos are completely free of anything like that.

Hope this helps.

I love martial arts, and hope to teach it someday, so just to mention that it's very enjoyable. God bless.
 
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azureblue00

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Also, concerning 'chi', 'qi', 'ki', etc. The definitions vary. Though this is the definition I personally use for it.

Keep in mind that the ancient Chinese medicine systems (accupuncture/accupressure in particular) relied on the same pressure point system used in the internal martial arts, the difference being you seek to use these points to AID the body in healing as opposed to HURT it haha.

Chi, in this sense is the ancient Chinese description for the electrical current flowing through the human body. They were aware that something beyond the 'normal' physical stuff was in there, but lacked the technology to truly understand it.

Now days, we know that the nervous system, and brain rely on electrical impulses, that's pretty well common knowledge, back then it wasn't. So, instead of calling this electrical impulses, they call it 'chi'. Because, just as Chi does mean 'life force' so too that electrical current is a 'life force' without that current your appendages cannot operate, nor can your vital organs.

That is also where meridians come in, it is the ancient Chinese method of
'mapping out' all the points in the body where these electrical currents are, and can be used either to help, or hurt someone.

It's really the same principal as Chiropractition. The Chiropractor feels that by alligning the spine properly electrical impulses can travel more smoothly throughout the spinal cord, promoting the body's natural ability to heal.

So too, with the internal martial arts that focus on chi.

As to using chi for striking, etc.

That is where 'mind over matter' comes in. If you ever attempt to break a board, you'll know what I'm referring to. If you hesitate, just for a milisecond while you're throwing that strike..you WILL NOT break that board, and you WILL hurt your hand lol. On the other hand, if you focus on your goal (I was taught board-breaking by having a pen placed under the board and being instructed to 'grab the pen') and focus on your breathing, then make sure you DON'T let your mind wonder or hesitate upon striking, then you'll break the board.

It's simply coming to realize the human body is capable of much more than we give it credit for, and simply by allowing ourselves to hesitate, or convince ourselves of our limits to the point that we never try to break those limits...that we hinder our own abilities.

So, anyways, hope that was helpful to someone. God bless you all. Wonderful thread btw!
 
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azureblue00

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@FaithPleases...OH SNAP! xD lol jk

Anyways, yeah, I don't know a lot about actual Japanese Karate, though it appears too rigid and straight in for me personally, I prefer more loose circular styles myself, so it just doesn't appeal to me, personally. Muay Thai on the other hand is a style I am highly interested in. As far as hard external styles go, it's paramount, in my opinion.
 
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crespo

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Thanks for your responses.

Does this mean that accupuncture isn't occult? I always heard from christian teachings about eastern medicine that accupuncture is occult. The danger is that anything which comes from the east is directly labeled as occult even if it may not be occult.

And does this stuff from Kill Bill really work where you hit certain pressure points of the body and then you die?

And what about the 1 inch punch? Is it really able to knock somebody across the room with such a punch?

And do you know the movie Ipman? I recently watched this movie and was very impressed with the kind of fighting. Also the scene where Ipman defeats 10 chinese enemies is totally impressive. Do you think that fighting against 10 men could really work in real life or only in movies?

Btw, what are these wooden men good for? Do you also have such a thing at home and then beat against it? I cannot really imagine how beating such a piece of wood can help you in a real fight. :confused:
 
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azureblue00

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Ok, first of all, I'm going to try to answer these questions as precisely as possible, but I am also going to avoid specific examples if at all possible, because I wouldn't want anyone getting any ideas and trying something on their buddy and leading to injury, etc. In other words, trying to keep this legally safe lol.

So, with that. I'll divide your questions up, and answer each as best I can.

Cool Crespo?

"Does this mean that accupuncture isn't occult?"

Keeping in mind that one definition of the word 'occult' is supernatural. That in mind, being the stickler for wordings that I am, I find it worthy of note that God answering prayers is also supernatural, and an atheist could easily call that 'occult'.

Though, the usual use of the word 'occult' is to denote sinister, evil, specifically demonic supernatural activity.

I will be using THAT definition in regards to my answer.

Yes and No.

It all depends on the practitioner.

In it's truest sense. No, accupuncture/pressure is simply a matter of using specific muscle/nerve points on the body to help promote the body's healing. Again, similar to Chiropractic treatment.

The practitioner may very well incorporate extra, unnecessary, and perhaps 'occult' practices into their treatment. In that case, it would be occult.

Though accupuncture in and of itself, is NOT occult. That being said, I've never went to one as I never felt in need of the treatment personally.

Unfortunately a great deal of stigma is found within the Church to anything 'unfamiliar'. Such as Eastern Philosophy/Martial Arts/Medicine.

Eastern Philosophy is surprisingly similar to Christian teaching in many respects. Martial Arts are simply an effective method to train for combat, while improving character. Chinese medicine is still widely used, even in some hospitals.

It's the same as how the family doctor may not have ever told you anything to indicate his own personal beliefs. That doesn't mean he's a bad doctor, or you shouldn't visit him. So long as he treats you by the medical books, the treatment itself is totally neutral of his own personal beliefs.

The same for these matters we are discussing.

"And does this stuff from Kill Bill really work where you hit certain pressure points of the body and then you die?"

Once again, Yes and No.

Anyone interested in the pressure point system/internal martial arts will also become highly interested in human anatomy and physiology. As that is precisely what the pressure point system is.

It's mapping out points of human anatomy/physiology that can be used to either help promote the body's well being, or injure the body.

So, yes, one with enough skill and practice in this area can indeed strike a particular blood vessel, etc. and kill a person with the one strike.

That being said, such a thing is not at all like one would see in a movie. The movies highly decorate, and 'fancify' these things to make them more theatrical in appearance, and behavior than they actual are. Keeping in mind I've never killed anyone, I don't know what that looks like, I'm just saying that pressure point strikes in general don't look that theatrical. lol

"And what about the 1 inch punch? Is it really able to knock somebody across the room with such a punch?"

Yes, it is POSSIBLE to do such a thing with this strike. Though it depends solely on the skill of the one performing the strike.

I personally can make someone go back about 3-5 steps with this strike. Though I've seen a fellow-student of mine cause a punching bag to fold over on itself using the same strike. Obviously he's far more skilled than I am.

I've had my instructor demonstrate the technique on me, with no real preparation, or focus, while I was highly brased and prepared for the strike and he caused me to step back. Thus, I can only assume that he could well send me stumbling across a room should he feel inclined, using that strike.

Bruce Lee, for example is documented, and recorded as knocking people back with GREAT force using that strike. It's all a matter of one's skill with it, and ability to properly utilize the body's force, and momentum.

"And do you know the movie Ipman? I recently watched this movie and was very impressed with the kind of fighting. Also the scene where Ipman defeats 10 chinese enemies is totally impressive. Do you think that fighting against 10 men could really work in real life or only in movies?"

No, I have not seen that movie. It sounds very interesting, I may very well check into it. I like the good ole' martial arts flicks myself.

Now, fighting multiple assailants at once? Yes, highly possible.

In fact, in my dojo once you hit around black belt level it's common practice for you to spar two opponents at the same time. A dear friend of mine, and myself have even sparred a black belt at the same time during one of these matches. I can thus attest from personal experience, he defended exceptionally against both of us.

Our dojo also engages in what we call 'bull in the pin' in which you are in the center of a circle of all your classmates, and then using hand gestures while your back is turned to him, the instructor will have one of the students perform a particular attack (possibly armed with demonstration weapons) and you have to react to it. My personal experience with that had me defend from a simulated knife attack and then immediately have to turn around to deal with a club. Granted, in that example it was one assailant at a time from multiple, unknown angles. Testing reaction time more than anything.

The style Ba Gua is actually based entirely around the principal of fighting EIGHT opponents simultaneously.

Again, something like that is entirely decided by the skill of the practitioner.

Do you have the skill to quickly dispatch one opponent? Do you have the reaction time to defend against an opponent quickly? Do you know techniques that specifically deal with two-three attacks from multiple people at the same time?

Those are deciding factors in such a thing.

For example, I've seen an Aikido demonstration where the instructor had three students on him at once, one from behind, and one on each side, and with one movement managed to send all three of them rolling away from him. Alas, no matter how many times I rewound that clip I never could discern precisely what he did. lol

So, yes it is indeed possible to deal with multiple people at once. I in fact have been taught one technique that deals with two people punching you at the same time.

Keep in mind, I'm at an intermediate level in my dojo, I couldn't really imagine the techniques the advanced (black belt+ level) students know.

So, again, decided by personal ability, but possible. Though it probably won't be like it is in movies. Like Chuck Norris in Walker Texas Ranger.

One scene had like 5 guys come at him one at a time..while the others just kind of stared as if waiting for their turn. Real life isn't quite like that.

"Btw, what are these wooden men good for? Do you also have such a thing at home and then beat against it? I cannot really imagine how beating such a piece of wood can help you in a real fight."

Not entirely sure what you are referring to.

If you are referring to the wooden post that has like three prongs sticking out of it.

That is used to practice putting more force in your strikes/blocks while toughening those parts of your body.

If you are referring to a human shaped punching dummy. That is used for precision training.

It's great to practice hitting a punching bag and all.

Though real people aren't shaped that way.

If you're practicing a strike, or combo that requires hair-thin precision, it's important that you have a precise target. What better than one shaped like a human?

Generally though, anything wooden in martial arts that you are striking with your own body. Is used to toughen your body parts.

That can be for two main reasons: To make your strikes hurt your opponent more.

To make your strikes hurt you less.

Do I have one personally? No

I have a punching bag.

Though at some point in the future, I do hope, Lord willing to buy both a human shaped punching bag, and a wooden pronged thing that I mentioned.

Not sure of their technical names right off lol.

Hope this helps.

If you have any more questions, just let me know. As I mentioned, I am not a master of martial arts, and I am far from knowing it all. Though if I can help in anyway, I definitely want to.

God bless.
 
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azureblue00

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Also Auras relate to this topic. So would like to discuss that.

My personal definition and knowledge concerning auras is this:

Aura is simply 'excess' electrical energy that flows out from your body...compare it to the electro-magnetic field around Earth. Human beings and other living creatures have a similar such thing..though on a far smaller, and less noticeable scale.

Again other definitions for what an aura is do exist, I'm simply sharing what I perceive, and believe auras to be.

Because I know that talk of auras can immediately seem 'occult' I felt it worthy of note that a much more mundane definition of what an aura is, does exist.

God bless.
 
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childofGod31

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Anybody here who does karate, kung fun, wing tsun or something else? Does this always involve occult practices such as meditation?
I also heard that some of those moves you do actually have a deeper meaning and basically are a call for demonic strength, is this true? :confused:

By the way, people don't really know who "demons" are and what they represent and how they came to be. Sure they guess. But guessing doesn't mean they got it right. I bet most misunderstand the basics.

And here are some verses from the old testament about spirits which seem to be working for God (not against God).


1Sa 18:10 The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. 1Sa 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

Jdg 9:23 God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

[FONT=&quot]1Ki [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22:19[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Micaiah continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 1Ki [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22:20[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?' "One suggested this, and another that. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Ki [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22:21[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' 1Ki [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22:22[/FONT][FONT=&quot] "'By what means?' the LORD asked. "'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. "'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.' 1Ki [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22:23[/FONT][FONT=&quot] "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you." [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]According to Jews, it seems that God and Satan can be used interchangeably. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Ch 21:1 Satan rose up against [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Israel[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and incited David to take a census of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Israel[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2Sa 24:1 Again the anger of the LORD burned against [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Israel[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and he (the Lord) incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Israel[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Judah[/FONT][FONT=&quot]."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Some Christians believe that you can’t talk to the dead, but that it's demons you are talking to. And yet, Saul was able to talk to the dead Samuel...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Sam 28:8 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to the book of Job, this spirit spoke the words of God. But some of our day would assume it was the actions/feel of the evil spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Job [/FONT][FONT=&quot]4:15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] A spirit glided past my face, and the hair on my body stood on end…and I heard a hushed voice: Job 4:17 "Can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can a man be more pure than his Maker? [/FONT]


If these things happened in our day, the majority would assume that we are dealing with evil spirits. But here they are presented as though they are either a spirit of God or a spirit working for God. Although they ACT as the evil spirits would in modern day understanding.

This shows that we have misconceptions about stuff, including demons.

One more strange thing: Jesus actually did as demons asked him (sent them into pigs). Why did he honor their request? Wasn't his goal to get rid of them once and for all? Why did not cease the moment and rid the world of this evil?

It's strange, isn't it? It shows that we don't really know about demons, who they are and what they are and what God's relationship to them really is and what they really do to people who come in contact with the spirit world, and how people would know if it's God's spirit or demon's spirit. People assume a lot. But assumptions can be wrong.

And what about God having a dialogue with the devil, in the book of Job (and the devil having the ability to show up before the face of God)? Why is the devil permitted access to heaven? And why is God bargaining with the devil? Why would God care what the devil thinks? Why would God try to prove something to the devil? These are all questions that don't have the answers.

So in answer to your question: nobody really knows. Follow your heart.
 
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azureblue00

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@ChildofGod.

That's a wonderful point. That one's view of 'good' or 'evil' can often by highly subjective and not Scripturally based.

One side-note I'd like to make real quick. I personally don't believe that was Samuel Saul spoke to. Notice the person he sought out in order to do that? God made it clear Israel was to have no part in foreign religions, or sorceries, etc.

I believe that was a demon disguised as Samuel to further propagate the notion of speaking to the departed. In Luke 16 a great void is described, named as the Gulf, which keeps those of Heaven from seeing or interacting with Hell. I see no reason why that wouldn't too be the case for Earth.

Either way though, very very great point to bring out. So many Christians label things as 'evil' simply because they don't understand them, and are unfamiliar with them.

So often if we actually stop to learn about something, it's not really that different from what we have in our lives already.

Martial Arts is primarily what I'm speaking of there.

As has been mentioned by others, if not in this thread in others.

Martial Arts, can be compared to a car.

A car can lead you to a bar where you waste your life away drinking, or lead you to Church where you get right with God and spend your life following Him.

The car in the driveway is neither good, nor bad. It is a neutral object. It becomes a tool for good, or evil based on the way the person driving it, drives.

So too with martial arts/pressure points/etc.

Fine point ChildofGod, fine point.

God bless.
 
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ahzmort

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And what about the 1 inch punch? Is it really able to knock somebody across the room with such a punch?

You should watch a show called Stan Lee's Superhuman. they do an episode with a shaolin monk using crash test dummies to rate his striking capabilities. He does a 1 inch punch on the dummy & the amount of damage he did was the equivalent of being in a car accident going over 35 mph. His 1 inch punch actually did more damage than his 'regular' punches.



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