Is divorce among Christians ever morally permissible?

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ChristIsTHEKing

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catlover said:
If violence is involved the person receiving end of the violence should walk away and not look back.

As I stated before we are certainly to remove either ourself or the other party from the situation to protect ourselves but we are also to attempt reconciliation and counseling. Jesus prayed for His persecutors, so we are to do the same. We either follow His will or our will, we can't do both. God Bless!
 
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Sweeterthanhoney

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catlover said:
Why do we need a book chapter and verse to use common sense?

If you look at some of the chapters in The Bible a woman could be stoned to death for adultry or have her hand cut off for touching a man wrong.

The Bible is our guide to daily living. The statement I quoted had nothing to do with what you are talking about. When it comes to abuse I totally agree with you.
 
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Sweeterthanhoney

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RMathison said:
Paul speaking to the Church of Corinth, at the time:

1 Cor 7:27

...Are you

RELEASED

from a wife

(Greek: woman)?

Do not seek a wife

(Greek: woman).


How do you interpet this scripture verse to imply:
If there never was love between both, then it never was a real marriage, and God has not joined them togethter and it is ok to separate.

MY Bible says:[bible]I Cor. 7:27 If you have a wife, DO NOT end the marriage, If you do not have a wife, do not get married. NLT[/bible]

sounds alittle different than what you said. When you say "I do" you made a vow before God and to each other. Unless that vow is violated (adultry or abuse) it must be honoured.

It is not Gods will for ANY marriage to fail. It never will be. I have been thru many difficult times in my marriage of 20 yrs, and as hard as they have been and at times still are, I CHOSE to remain faithful to my vows to God and my husband. If there are troubles, GET HELP! People are too proud to admit they need help. They'd rather just scrap everything they have invested in and take the easy way out. They are too lazy to put any effort into their marriage, and it DOES take alot of work. Constant work. Take your focus OFF God and your marriage and satan will be there in a flash to cause decention.

Love is also a choice, not a feeling. If you don't have love for your spouse, ask, and God will give it to you!
 
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catlover

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ChristIsTHEKing said:
As I stated before we are certainly to remove either ourself or the other party from the situation to protect ourselves but we are also to attempt reconciliation and counseling. Jesus prayed for His persecutors, so we are to do the same. We either follow His will or our will, we can't do both. God Bless!


Yeah, I guess Lacy Peterson and Lori Hacking should have just prayed for their husbands and gave them a second chance....:doh:

Lori Hacking husband."I intentionally shot Lori Hacking in the head with a .22 rifle," Mark Hacking told a judge in a Salt Lake City courthouse.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153607,00.html


Or perhaps this young lady should have prayed for her husband and gave him a second chance.

In Tennessee, Kay Briggs found a letter in her mailbox several days after her pregnant daughter was slain in Chesapeake, Va. In it was her daughter's photograph: a beaming Melissa O'Connell, showing off her protruding abdomen. The 33-year-old mother-to-be had mailed it before her husband choked her to death.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10074-2004Dec18_3.html
 
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RMathison

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Sweeterthanhoney said:
MY Bible says:[bible]

I Cor. 7:27 If you have a wife, DO NOT end the marriage, If you do not have a wife, do not get married. NLT

[/bible]

the word (poorly) translated: 'wife' above,

is from the Greek

'GOONAY',

which means simply:

'WOMAN'


Said passage in Greek:

dedesai

(=dew,v {deh'-o}
[SIZE=-1]1) to bind tie, fasten)[/SIZE]

gunaiki;

(=gunh,n {goo-nay'}
[SIZE=-1]1) a woman of any age,)[/SIZE]

(goo-nahee-kee)


mh

(=mh,d {may}
[SIZE=-1]1) no, not lest)[/SIZE]


zhtei


(=zhtew,v {dzay-teh'-o}
[SIZE=-1]1) to seek)[/SIZE]


lusin

(=lusiV,n {loo'-sis}
[SIZE=-1]1) a loosing, setting free)
:
[/SIZE]

lelusai

(=luw,v {loo'-o}
[SIZE=-1]1) to loose any person (or thing) tied or fastened)[/SIZE]


apo

(=apo,p {apo'}
[SIZE=-1]1) of separation ) [/SIZE]

gunaikoV;

(goo-na-hee-kos)

(=gunh,n {goo-nay'}
[SIZE=-1]1) a woman of any age,)[/SIZE]

mh


(=mh,d {may}
[SIZE=-1]1) no, not lest)[/SIZE]


zhtei

(=zhtew,v {dzay-teh'-o}
[SIZE=-1]1) to seek )[/SIZE]

gunaika.
(goona-hee-ka)
(=gunh,n {goo-nay'}
[SIZE=-1]1) a woman of any age,)[/SIZE]




This is the same wording, when Jesus says to Mary (in John): 'Woman...'



[kai] legei auth o ihsouV,



"[and] says to-her the Jesus,

ti emoi kai soi, gunai;

What (to) Me and (to) you, woman?"

(gunai='goo-nahee')












However...

The passage in the above quotes

(which was addressed to the EARLY-church),

means (IMHO) that IF a REAL marriage

(with love) has occured,

they shouldn't seperate.
 
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ChristIsTHEKing

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catlover said:
Yeah, I guess Lacy Peterson and Lori Hacking should have just prayed for their husbands and gave them a second chance....:doh:

Lori Hacking husband."I intentionally shot Lori Hacking in the head with a .22 rifle," Mark Hacking told a judge in a Salt Lake City courthouse.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153607,00.html


Or perhaps this young lady should have prayed for her husband and gave him a second chance.

In Tennessee, Kay Briggs found a letter in her mailbox several days after her pregnant daughter was slain in Chesapeake, Va. In it was her daughter's photograph: a beaming Melissa O'Connell, showing off her protruding abdomen. The 33-year-old mother-to-be had mailed it before her husband choked her to death.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10074-2004Dec18_3.html

Certainly sad stories, but neither story provides a history of violence nor states anything about attempts to remove themselves if applicable. I did state that first, remember.
 
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revrobor

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Cary.Melvin said:
I have noticed that your forum has had a couple of posts regarding marriage, divorce and remarriage lately. I have heard that this is a rather contentious issue among Protestants. I can understand why this would be a very important issue in today’s culture and that faithful Christians do not want to take part in or give our approval to adulterous relationships.

That being said, does anyone here believe that divorce (and subsequent remarriage) between Christians is never morally permissible (even in the case of adultery)?

Thanks,

There are no Biblical grounds for divorce in a marriage that is ordained by God. Those who marry without consulting God in the matter are outside His rules for marriage. Just because God created the institution does not mean every marriage is of Him.
 
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revrobor said:
There are no Biblical grounds for divorce in a marriage that is ordained by God. Those who marry without consulting God in the matter are outside His rules for marriage. Just because God created the institution does not mean every marriage is of Him.

Since God is the only one who knows our hearts, and anyone who is married and decides he/she does not want to remain it it for reasons other than adultry and abuse, they can very easily say that their marriage wasn't ordain by God.

Who decides which marriage is ordained by God and which isn't? This sounds like a cop out too me.
 
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revrobor

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Sweeterthanhoney said:
Since God is the only one who knows our hearts, and anyone who is married and decides he/she does not want to remain it it for reasons other than adultry and abuse, they can very easily say that their marriage wasn't ordain by God.

Who decides which marriage is ordained by God and which isn't? This sounds like a cop out too me.

God. And if He was not consulted in the first place then the marriage is not of Him.
 
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RMathison

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Sweeterthanhoney said:
......

anyone who is married and decides he/she does not want to remain it it for reasons other than adultry and abuse

......

Ah, BUT...

If you feel that in a TRUE marriage of God,

ADULTERY is a VALID reason for divorce (and re-marriage),

then one could merely recall a moment when they briefly

'lusted' after someone else,

and then use this as a so-called 'valid reason'

to DIVORCE their true love,

and 're-marry' into a sinfull relationship.


In my opinion, that teaching condones

ADULTEROUS RELATIONSHIPS.
 
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revrobor

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ADULTERY is a VALID reason for divorce (and re-marriage),

Adultry Is NOT a valid reason for a marriage ordained by God. In the verse in Matthew often used to justify this thinking Jesus is talking to those we would call "engaged" today NOT married men. If a man learned his fiancee' had sex with another man he could give her a bill of divorcement and not have to go through with the marriage as it was sexual intercourse that Biblically united them as husband and wife and they would be commiting adultry if he married her. The case of Joseph and Mary is a prime example of this. Joseph was ready to "divorce" Mary until the angel straightened him out.
 
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1 - Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
From the beginning the humble disciple would see from the above passage that Christians had asked questions regarding marriage and he would see that he is in the right place to learn the answer to questions that have troubled him.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
The unbiased reader not only hears Paul say persons must be allowed to have a spouse but he understands the reason: it will help one to avoid fornication.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

The reader in search of truth would certainly see the importance that Paul places upon sexual activity, which is confined to the husband/wife situation on which he has placed so much importance.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
The reader would see that Paul is talking TO the “unmarried.” He goes to the dictionary and learns that those who have been divorced are “unmarried.”
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
The reader hears Paul say to the Corinthian church that they are to let the “unmarried” marry. He wonders: “How could anyone not understand that? Why has there been all the fuss about whether divorced persons are or are not eligible for marriage. Do they not believe Paul settles the matter, since he addressed questions from Christians?”
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
The reader would have to wonder what “depart” meant. Thus, he might go to Strong’s Lexicon and find the following:
[Grk. 5563] chorizo (kho-rid'-zo)
from 5561; to place room between, i.e. part; reflexively, to go away:--depart, put asunder, separate.
Thus, he realizes that “depart” does not mean divorce. Nevertheless, he being able to put two and two together realizes that if a woman is commanded not to depart she would also be commanded not to divorce.
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
The reader wonders how this harmonizes with what Paul has already said, so he looks at some other versions to see what they say. He finds two versions that render the passage through glasses not tainted with the preconceived idea that divorce is in the context. Thus, he understands that Paul is talking about couples who separate.
Waymouth - “Or if she has already left him, let her either remain as she is or be reconciled to him; and that a husband is not to send away his wife.”
Montgomery - "(or if she has already left him let her either remain as she is, or be reconciled to him), and also that a husband is not to put away his wife."
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
The unbiased reader would see clearly that the believer is not to “put away” his unbelieving wife.
Note: evidently, there was, among the Corinthians, a number who understood that among the Jewish community those married to heathens should simply “put away” those to whom they were unlawfully married if they wanted to please God.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
The reader learns that the woman has the same instruction as the man.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
The reader reads the above and understands why the marriage with someone not a child of God is acceptable with God.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
After reading the above, the reader would understand that a Christian is not under bondage to an unbeliever who departs.
26. I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.
The unbiased reader would surely understand that the “present distress” was very much a concern, which was the reason for the advice that it would be good not to be married.
27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
The reader would have to understand that “bound” means “to be married” (or obviously included it) and that those married should seek not to be loosed. Then he would likely want to know what Paul meant by “loosed.” Thus, he looks it up:
G3080
[FONT=&quot]λύσις[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]lusis[/FONT]
Thayer Definition:
1) a loosing, setting free
1a) of a prisoner
1b) of the bond of marriage, divorce
rw: The reader would logically conclude that the above passage is taking about divorce.
28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
The unbiased reader would likely conclude from the above that a divorced person is being told he would not sin if he marries, just as a “virgin” would not sin if/when she marries.
After reading about the “trouble in the flesh” and understanding the issue regarding the “present distress” the reader would now fully understand the Apostle Paul’s intentions regarding who has a right to marry. He would know that if a husband and wife are having problems and separate they should remain as they are, which is married to each other.
The reader remembers that 1 Thes. 4:1-3 was in his search string, so he goes to the passage and notes the context.
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
The reader sees that there has been a prophecy about some who would be guilty of “forbidding to marry.” He also sees that Paul puts such into the catalog of “doctrines of demons.” Thus, he would likely conclude that “forbidding to marry” is not a good thing and should not be practiced. If a question regarding what “forbidding to marry” meant came into his head he would remember what he had learned in 1 Cor 7 where Paul gave the command to let the unmarried marry and he would understand that it simply was the opposite of what Paul commanded. In view of the clear teaching of Paul to “let them marry” (regarding the “unmarried”) the idea that “forbidding to marry” simply applied to the Roman Catholic religion would likely not enter his head. (Besides, Priests and Nuns choose the life they life.) He would understand that anyone who would deny an unmarried person the right to marry would be teaching “doctrines of devils.”
One final point: Does Paul answer any question about whether we are to punish one who is divorced? He did say, “let them marry,” didn’t he? So why can we not just agree to do what Paul said?
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revrobor

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The question here is "whose marriage is it?" If God was not consulted on the matter BEFORE the marriage then the marriage is not of God and is outside His rules. If the marriage was ordained by God then there are no grounds for divorce.

Being married in a church does not mean God ordained the marriage. No Christian should marry unless they are absolutely certain God has instructed them to marry that particular person.
 
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revrobor said:
The question here is "whose marriage is it?" If God was not consulted on the matter BEFORE the marriage then the marriage is not of God and is outside His rules. If the marriage was ordained by God then there are no grounds for divorce.

Being married in a church does not mean God ordained the marriage. No Christian should marry unless they are absolutely certain God has instructed them to marry that particular person.
The problem with this whether God ordained the marraige or not becomes very fuzzy and uncertain once people decide they want to divorce. I agree that no Christian should marry unless God lets them know it is His will, but how will people determine that. And how will anybody be able to demonstrate to them that the same feelings or voices that told them to marry are the same ones that told them to divorce. No, people need something clear-cut, black and white, something they cannot do mental gymnastics around. If the couple, Christian or not, is Biblically eligible to marry, and they went through any kind of wedding, be it by a justice of the peace, a Bhuddist monk, or a Christian pastor, they are married. If a married couple converts to Christianity, it is good to have a pastor pray for your marraige and ask God to bless it.
 
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