Is disbelief in God, a function of what kind of god *you* are (to yourself)?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So look I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you or that you need to be brutally honest with me if you don't want to, but in my own "walk with God" I have come to the conclusion that there is great freedom, in knowing what manner of "god" (small g) you are, before you begin to question what manner of god God is (capital G).

Let me give you an example, if I was God, I would never expect people to fear me, I would never expect people to change unless they really wanted to, I would never attempt to... I don't know... pay out someone who I thought was an especially wicked sinner (alright, that last one would be tempting), in fact, if I honestly thought I was God, I would probably begin to see being God as well (as I posted in the theology section) a cry for help. I would be needy. I would expect other people to pander to me and tell me how to improve my own character and basically let me be creative about my passion for writing (I am verbose, does it show? lol, but I digress, actually there should be an acronym for that b-i-d).

So you see, I know what I would attempt to do if for example God suddenly came to me and said "I've had it, you're God now, you deal with it". I wonder if perhaps one of the reasons people have such a hard time dealing with God is that they've never looked at it from His perspective, and they've never looked at it from His perspective because they've always thought of Him as "in a league of His own" and not someone they can really relate to. And well, if you think about it, that's what Jesus came to fix, Jesus came to show that you can have a relationship with God that is basically not about Judgment.

What I think this thought experiment shows, is that you can have a relationship with God that is about Judgment, just that you can be smart about it and put the ball in your half of the court (so to speak, another acronym? no, too camp). I mean if you really know yourself as a god, inside and out, how can God argue with you? Short of getting angry with you, He is basically stuck and if you are being reasonable, what's the worst that can happen? He proves He is God and you suffer? Well, you were going to suffer anyway, right? On the other hand, you might discover that God totally wants you to stand up for yourself and that if you just think of yourself a bit more positively on a regular basis, you can be a lot more assertive and pushy when for all intents and purposes it's any man's game.

So I don't know, are you secure enough to open up about this? Is this why you have reservations about God? Are you willing to test God on His level (believe me I am not saying you can't screw it up if you act like a moron because you think its smart, but if you truly are a moron your life was never going to turn out great anyway, right? I mean it's all fairly sound logic so far, right?) Are you mature enough to take criticism about your godness? Isn't the best way to tell anything for sure to test it with yourself?

Because let's face it, if there was no God, how could anyone ever act like a god?

 

[Ken-1122]

Hi there,

So look I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you or that you need to be brutally honest with me if you don't want to, but in my own "walk with God" I have come to the conclusion that there is great freedom, in knowing what manner of "god" (small g) you are, before you begin to question what manner of god God is (capital G).

Let me give you an example, if I was God, I would never expect people to fear me, I would never expect people to change unless they really wanted to, I would never attempt to... I don't know... pay out someone who I thought was an especially wicked sinner (alright, that last one would be tempting), in fact, if I honestly thought I was God, I would probably begin to see being God as well (as I posted in the theology section) a cry for help. I would be needy. I would expect other people to pander to me and tell me how to improve my own character and basically let me be creative about my passion for writing (I am verbose, does it show? lol, but I digress, actually there should be an acronym for that b-i-d).

So you see, I know what I would attempt to do if for example God suddenly came to me and said "I've had it, you're God now, you deal with it". I wonder if perhaps one of the reasons people have such a hard time dealing with God is that they've never looked at it from His perspective, and they've never looked at it from His perspective because they've always thought of Him as "in a league of His own" and not someone they can really relate to. And well, if you think about it, that's what Jesus came to fix, Jesus came to show that you can have a relationship with God that is basically not about Judgment.

What I think this thought experiment shows, is that you can have a relationship with God that is about Judgment, just that you can be smart about it and put the ball in your half of the court (so to speak, another acronym? no, too camp). I mean if you really know yourself as a god, inside and out, how can God argue with you? Short of getting angry with you, He is basically stuck and if you are being reasonable, what's the worst that can happen? He proves He is God and you suffer? Well, you were going to suffer anyway, right? On the other hand, you might discover that God totally wants you to stand up for yourself and that if you just think of yourself a bit more positively on a regular basis, you can be a lot more assertive and pushy when for all intents and purposes it's any man's game.

So I don't know, are you secure enough to open up about this? Is this why you have reservations about God? Are you willing to test God on His level (believe me I am not saying you can't screw it up if you act like a moron because you think its smart, but if you truly are a moron your life was never going to turn out great anyway, right? I mean it's all fairly sound logic so far, right?) Are you mature enough to take criticism about your godness? Isn't the best way to tell anything for sure to test it with yourself?

Because let's face it, if there was no God, how could anyone ever act like a god?

You should never assume those who don't believe in God, actually want to be God.

Ken

 

[Gottservant]

You should never assume those who don't believe in God, actually want to be God.

Ken

I would have liked it if you had substantiated what you said a little more. I really wasn't trying to be offensive. In fact, if you look at what I wrote, I never said what you wrote.

 

[Paradoxum]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

I've though about how I would act if I was God. Heal and protect people, give advice in a not-vague way, convict people of wrong doing, give opportunities and help in reforming, make my existence obvious.

 

[Gottservant]

Right, and having said that - knowing that God wants every good thing you said, for you - how do you feel about God?

 

[Paradoxum]

Right, and having said that - knowing that God wants every good thing you said, for you - how do you feel about God?

I don't think he exists. If he does exist, then he isn't doing a good job. There are still people suffering, and he doesn't show himself.

If he isn't omnipotent, then he could be a good guy trying his best.

 

[variant]

Part of the problem I have with the belief in God is indeed that I can easily imagine one that isn't nearly as flawed as the ones that are regularly imagined by others.

This leads me to believe that what is going on with the idea of God and religion is that it springs from flawed human imagination.

So, I've got this idea that I don't see any evidence for and has all the hallmarks of being imaginary. What am I going to think?

Well, it's imaginary of course.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Right, and having said that - knowing that God wants every good thing you said, for you - how do you feel about God?

God can't be omnipotent or omniscient then

 

[theophilus777]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

I've though about how I would act if I was God. Heal and protect people, give advice in a not-vague way, convict people of wrong doing, give opportunities and help in reforming, make my existence obvious.

God does all this. The main difference is He is humble, such that we can ignore Him if we choose. Which means His existence isn't obvious, at least at first. That's the main thing with the story of Moses and the burning bush, what was obvious at first didn't sway him. He persisted until he found out what was going on. We know that took a while, based on the the vegetation of the area. Even as myth with moral, that part of the story was true and obvious to the original audience.

The giving advice in a not vague way is true to those whom it is given, directly.

 

[Paradoxum]

God does all this. The main difference is He is humble, such that we can ignore Him if we choose. Which means His existence isn't obvious, at least at first. That's the main thing with the story of Moses and the burning bush, what was obvious at first didn't sway him. He persisted until he found out what was going on. We know that took a while, based on the the vegetation of the area. Even as myth with moral, that part of the story was true and obvious to the original audience.

The giving advice in a not vague way is true to those whom it is given, directly.

That isn't true though. God doesn't help people when they beg for it, and nor does he show himself when he is asked to.

I used to believe, and as I lost belief I cried and begged God a number of times to show me he's there. Nothing happened.

 

[theophilus777]

That isn't true though. God doesn't help people when they beg for it, and nor does he show himself when he is asked to.

What you're saying is more accurately put that He hasn't done so for you, yet; and also He has not in every case where people sought it. This is a not so subtle distinction from what you said, that "He doesn't do it."

That being said, I'm sorry your experience has been such, and I have no explanation for that.

 

[Paradoxum]

What you're saying is more accurately put that He hasn't done so for you, yet; and also He has not in every case where people sought it. This is a not so subtle distinction from what you said, that "He doesn't do it."

Well you can keep saying that he "hasn't done it yet" until I'm on my deathbed.

If I had children who needed help, and wanted me to tell them that I loved them, I would that. I wouldn't wait for years... or never do it at all.

That being said, I'm sorry your experience has been such, and I have no explanation for that.

Perhaps because God doesn't exist... he is just psychology.

 

[DennisTate]

Hi there,

……..
Because let's face it, if there was no God, how could anyone ever act like a god?

I ran into a pretty amazing writing several years ago that asserted that The Ancient of Days the FAther… was The most emotional Being in the Universe!

This made a lot of sense to me…. and sure fits with what I think you are saying…….

Back around 1990….. it finally hit me that God was in trouble….. I was rather cold emotionally and was therefore somewhat oblivious to all the suffering in the world.. but G-d obviously was not like me and was so deeply concerned with all lives on earth…. that in a sense….. God was in trouble…. and maybe I could volunteer to help in some way????????!!!!!


http://www.christianforums.com/t7695357/


Could God be the most emotional being in the universe????
This would seem to correspond with the Creator actually having thought up and choreographed an infinite number of Big Events over infinite time in the past as some physicists seem to believe has been the case!

Investing infinite time in the creation....would certainly tend to give the Creator a greater emotional attachment to all of us than we can begin to imagine...considering how young we are.

“When My Father moves His little finger, the whole universe trembles. To shake the nations with words does not impress anyone who dwells here. But when even the least of My brethren on earth shows love, it brings joy to My Father’s heart. When even the most humble church sings to My Father with true love in their hearts, He silences all of heaven to listen to them. He knows that one cannot help but to worship when they are beholding His glory here,but when those who are living in such darkness and difficulty sing with true hearts to Him, it touches Him more than all of the myriads of heaven can.

“Many times, the broken notes from earth caused all of heaven to weep with joy as they beheld My Father being touched. A few holy ones struggling to express their adoration for Him has many times caused Him to weep.Every time I see My brethren touch Him with true worship, it makes the pain and grief I knew on the cross seem like a small price to pay. Nothing brings Me more joy than when you worship My Father. I went to the cross so that you could worship Him through Me. It is in this worship that you, the Father and I are all one.” (Pastor Rick Joyner, chapter 15, page 85, The Vision)

TheVision The Final Quest the Call RickJoyner PDF

 

[Gottservant]

"I went to the cross so that you could worship Him through Me"

beautiful

 

[DennisTate]

"I went to the cross so that you could worship Him through Me"

beautiful

Perhaps by learning to be appreciative of the sacrifice of Messiah Yeshua- Jesus on our behalf....... and by learning to love somebody...… and be grateful for what somebody did for us.......... we are accomplishing a much more important link than we might tend to realize.


Bob Jones’ Testimony August 8, 1975 Death Experience 

I watched the Lord speak to people that were coming there. And He asked them only one question: “Did you learn to love?” He’s not going to ask you what you did. If you learn to love you are going to do that which is right. Did you learn to love? (3) He would ask them that question and they would say, Yes Lord and He would kiss them right on the lips and embrace them and the double doors of His heart would open and they would go right on in.

Some of them had a lot of angels with them and they would go on in. The angels went in because they had testimonies, they helped people do things on the earth. They have no testimony until they help you do something. You are the ones that will judge angels by their rewards for what they helped you do. (4) They are more willing to help you do something, than you are willing to submit and let them help you do it.

(Pastor Bob Jones.... after his near death experience)

 

[Eudaimonist]

In my own "walk with God" I have come to the conclusion that there is great freedom, in knowing what manner of "god" (small g) you are, before you begin to question what manner of god God is (capital G).

I'm a human being, not a god, but okay.

Let me give you an example, if I was God

I'm not certain how much I can gain from putting myself in the position of God, since I am not God. It's like asking what sort of Cthulhu I would be if I were Cthulhu. How can I be anything other than what I am? If I were someone else, I wouldn't be me, but rather that someone else.

All that I can tell you is that I would much prefer a divine Socrates, friend and mentor, to the Warlord Yahweh, fearful tyrant that demands love and obedience. (Jesus never really fixed that.)

I wonder if perhaps one of the reasons people have such a hard time dealing with God is that they've never looked at it from His perspective, and they've never looked at it from His perspective because they've always thought of Him as "in a league of His own" and not someone they can really relate to.

And well, if you think about it, that's what Jesus came to fix, Jesus came to show that you can have a relationship with God that is basically not about Judgment.

That's not really true. There is still Judgment, but Jesus stands in the way. It's like taking a test in school where a passing grade is 100, but there are only 99 points of questions on the test. The teacher announces that he will let the class kill his son, who will get better very soon, and let anyone who takes his son as lord and savior get a 100 on the test.

I mean if you really know yourself as a god, inside and out, how can God argue with you? Short of getting angry with you, He is basically stuck and if you are being reasonable, what's the worst that can happen?

He can destroy you utterly? Or put you in Hell for an Eternity? Or are you just talking about Christians here?

On the other hand, you might discover that God totally wants you to stand up for yourself and that if you just think of yourself a bit more positively on a regular basis, you can be a lot more assertive and pushy when for all intents and purposes it's any man's game.

Sounds nice, but Christian theology tends to put the Devil in that "stand up for oneself" camp.

So I don't know, are you secure enough to open up about this? Is this why you have reservations about God?

This has nothing to do with reservations about God's existence. However, if you are talking about reservations about God's alleged goodness, sure. He comes across far too much like a reflection of the spirit of ancient times -- like an ancient or classical warlord.

Are you mature enough to take criticism about your godness? Isn't the best way to tell anything for sure to test it with yourself?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Test it out, how?

Because let's face it, if there was no God, how could anyone ever act like a god?

I don't see how that would be a problem, other than the issue that we are human beings, not gods.


eudaimonia,

Mark