Is deeper fellowship possible on CF?

[Norman70]

A merry Christmas to everyone, posters here, all Christians and non-Christians, and non-believers (atheists).
My wife and myself are on a spiritual journey, praying to God and asking for guidance. Our sojourn into CF is extremely helpful but a popular piece of advice is to find a good local church and/or a good minister to visit us. We are not finding this easy, we are not even sure what our experience of goodness might be.
Our private doctor is the best, a good Christian and a good doctor, in great demand therefore very busy. He also works pro-bono for his family and his SDA Church members, and spends one day per week voluntarily with the homeless on the streets. He is a nephew, he insists on visiting us because of our disabilities (the local NHS clinic is absolutely packed out) and we give him what we can afford even though he sometimes refuses to take it.
He ministers to us and counsels us, but we are reluctant to impose on his time. A poster here on another forum advised someone not to bother too much online but to find a good minister. Goodness is not easy to come by. God bless, thanks for reading.

 

[W2L]

I have been blessed using internet fellowship. Although i have stumbled many times as well.

 

[Norman70]

In my search for deeper fellowship I am going to make a very personal statement.
As a young newly qualified school teacher in 1966 I was adamantly against corporal punishment. However I took a job in a boys' secondary school where caning was the norm, optimistically I could change things. When a boy came to me showing his bleeding fingers after a caning I sought the deputy head responsible, he was not in his office so I wrecked it. I was a rugby union player and knew how to express aggression without breaking rules, so when I eventually found him I did him no physical harm.
50 years later I still experience the same emotions when I witness similar cruelty on the TV, e.g. women with their backs bruised from 100 lashes administered legally in their countries.
I pray to God to release mankind from this torment, whilst most of us switch channels to sport or a stupid game show.
Please God, release me from this torment.

 

[Sabertooth]

As a young newly qualified school teacher in 1966 I was adamantly against corporal punishment.

That topic is very polarizing. (Not in its extremes, but in its ramifications.*) Are you sure that you want to make that the the basis of fellowship?

*"Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." Proverbs 27:6 NKJV

 

[Norman70]

That topic is very polarizing. (Not in its extremes, but in its ramifications.*) Are you sure that you want to make that the the basis of fellowship?

*"Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." Proverbs 27:6 NKJV

I was going to wait to see if there were going to be more responses, but yours, Sabertooth, has moved me. Of course I want this topic to be a basis for deeper fellowship, did not Jesus say for us to suffer others to come to us? He surely did not say that we should make them suffer?
As a teacher I was a member of the Society of Teachers Opposed to Physical Punishment (UK) and we were instrumental in getting corporal punishment legally banned.
It seems that here we have a Scripture being used to support a non-Christian abomination. We are all equal therefore apart from God there is no authority which says one should stand still whilst someone else hits you. I know Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek, but that is for the righteous, not for the unrighteous being punished by a worldly authority.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So then no, not only deeper fellowship, but online real fellowship is not likely, maybe not possible.

 

[Sabertooth]

I can certainly debate the merits of loving corporal punishment in child-rearing, but that dialog would not approach what I understand the meaning of "Deeper Fellowship" to be. It would be a topic for the "Parenting" sub-forum.

And I know from experience that no one ever changes their point-of-view as a result of those discussions.

 

[Norman70]

Thank you for your prompt reply, Sabertooth, and you are quite correct that this forum is not the place. However I am quite low at the moment because of my physical infirmities (my wife is superbly supportive but ìt's hard on her as well) so I came here on my own wondering whether I could develop a deeper relationship with fellow Christians on a topic which has always troubled me.
I constantly pray to God whenever the topic raises its ugly head.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Thank you for your prompt reply, Sabertooth, and you are quite correct that this forum is not the place. However I am quite low at the moment because of my physical infirmities (my wife is superbly supportive but ìt's hard on her as well) so I came here on my own wondering whether I could develop a deeper relationship with fellow Christians on a topic which has always troubled me.
I constantly pray to God whenever the topic raises its ugly head.

The topic!? should indeed trouble you as long as God's Directions are opposed.
Getting in line with His Word, Plan and Purpose relieves all of that "trouble", no matter what others do....
or at least would grant as Jesus says , righteousness, peace and joy.

The government/ agencies you served/serve may not serve God until Jesus returns - this is something we must accept all over the world ....

That is cause for prayer, for much prayer.

 

[Sabertooth]

I came here on my own wondering whether I could develop a deeper relationship with fellow Christians on a topic which has always troubled me.

I could give it a shot in a PM, but in the open forum, it would be a free-for-all.

 

[Norman70]

@Sabertooth, Thank you for your interest but like you have already suggested a discussion about parenting is never resolved. That has been my experience over the years too, and unless there was obvious abuse I never intervened between parent and child. Even now I only react emotionally over the administering of physical punishment supported by human governments.
I will leave this alone here and try to get back to a deeper relationship with Christians.
yeshuaslavejeff writes about whether or not God's Directions are opposed. My wife and myself believe God is a totally loving God, He is never a punishing God, and therefore our resort to prayer and wait for the Second Coming of Christ is all we can do.

 

[Sabertooth]

...He is never a punishing God,...

He is a HOLY God. And His Holiness demands Justice.
At the same time, He is a LOVING God.

If Man never fell, these two traits would have never come into conflict with each other. Because Man did fall, He had to come up with a Plan that both satisfied His Justice AND gave Man an out.

That Plan was Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf. (If there was any easier way, He would have done it.) That Plan still requires, from us, surrender and submission in order to succeed.

Even Moses, whom God considered to be a good friend, was subject to God's Judgment on two occasions, Exodus 4:24-26; Exodus 33:18-23. And, too, the high priests serving in the Holy-of-Holies.

It isn't that God hates us (or anyone). Even if He just wanted to give us a hug, we would melt in His Presence, if our Sin wasn't properly covered/washed, first.

 

[Norman70]

@Sabertooth. I really do want to leave this topic (judicial physical punishment) alone in this thread, as you have already suggested. Perhaps if you or I pick a suitable forum we could engage in debate a little.
My reply now, however, is on the topic of justice, of which philosophically there are many variants. God's justice is, as you say, a totally loving justice, and cannot therefore involve retribution or punishment. As Christians together in this forum, we are searching for deeper fellowship with each other, and will never involve ourselves in a win or lose exchange. We may agree to differ, but ultimately leave it all in God's hands. After any exchange between us, I will pray to God, pray for you, pray for everyone else on this forum, and all poor, needy and persecuted in this world.
I wish I could quote some Scriptures to support my sentiments, but I do not have my Bible with me at the moment (naughty me, some carry a copy with them all of the time, and now, much to my wife's and myself's discomfort (!) they have it immediately available on our smart phones), but I am sure you understand. God bless you.

 

[Sabertooth]

I really do want to leave this topic (judicial physical punishment) alone...

I agree.

I had already left that subject behind.

I was responding to your proposal that God's Love overrides His Justice/Holiness, by pointing out that they fully co-exist, side-by-side, in Him.

As Christians together in this forum, we are searching for deeper fellowship with each other, and will never involve ourselves in a win or lose exchange. We may agree to differ, but ultimately leave it all in God's hands.

I agree, and abandon that topic in this forum, forthwith.

 

[Norman70]

@Sabertooth. Our conversation reminds me of a game I used to play as a child with my father. We called it "Last Touch" which was really a quite active variation of "Tick". I trust you are not into that sort of game, neither of us would be in a Christians only forum.
However, your "Last Touch" gives me no choice but to respond!! I have to point out that I do believe God's Love does override His Justice and His Holiness. Our phrase is "God is Love", full stop, it is not "God is Love, Just and Holy".
Well, now we are into ordinary words, and Wittgenstein covered this aspect of philosophy very interestingly. All of our intellectual powers, scientific, philosophical, mathematical (the language of God?), and artistic are gifts from God. They are only misused because of the works of the devil. In a deeper fellowship forum, I trust and pray that you understand my position, as I really do understand yours. If you respond i will not see it as a "Last Touch", and I bless you now for your interesting, though sometimes disagreeable (!) differences.

 

[Sabertooth]

Cool.

 

[aiki]

After a few weeks in hospital at the age of 76 I found myself praying to God constantly. I am at home now but my medical condition is little changed, I am being looked after by my wife. In my prayers I ask God to give her strength, and also ask Him what I should do.
I can read, write and talk, little else apart from toileting myself, bathing and dressing, and joining my wife for meals in my wheelchair.
I came to CF for Christian fellowship and hopefully spiritual growth. Is this going to be possible if we are a worldwide community of believers but mostly total strangers? Is Matthew 8 applicable, where Jesus talks about how to work with a brother with whom we have a disagreement?

Our fellowship with one another as children of God is in and through Christ. He brings us together, he unites us, and in him we can have joyful fellowship with our Maker and one another.

I have been where you are. I'm still there, to a certain degree. Physically speaking, I am a shadow of my former self. But, God is showing me daily that being weak in body is of little consequence when I am strong in Him. How about you?

As for Matthew 8, I'm wondering if you actually meant Matthew 18:15-17. Did you?

 

[Norman70]

Yes of course aiki, I should have written Matthew 18, it has already been corrected early on in the thread by W2L.
I am at home now, being looked after by my fantastic wife. It is hard on her, but we both pray to God and thank Him for small mercies. My perusals here are also a great help, reading, writing and talking is about all I can do, fortunately I can look after myself with toileting, keeping clean and getting to the table in my wheelchair to eat with my wife. Many thanks for your encouraging post.

 

[Norman70]

My physical problems are not getting any easier, and now I am going down again spiritually and possibly emotionally.
I say again because 18 months ago I was very depressed after some surgery. My doctor prescribed Zoloft which I no longer use, he recommended a psychotherapist whom I never engaged. In a website forum it was suggested I find a good Christian psychotherapist but have never found one!
Here in CF it has been suggested that I should try to make contact with a local church but that is not my cup of tea - see my posts about Christian Anarchy!
Can anyone in this forum suggest where in CF, if not in this forum, I might be able to get help?

 

[brinny]

My physical problems are not getting any easier, and now I am going down again spiritually and possibly emotionally.
I say again because 18 months ago I was very depressed after some surgery. My doctor prescribed Zoloft which I no longer use, he recommended a psychotherapist whom I never engaged. In a website forum it was suggested I find a good Christian psychotherapist but have never found one!
Here in CF it has been suggested that I should try to make contact with a local church but that is not my cup of tea - see my posts about Christian Anarchy!
Can anyone in this forum suggest where in CF, if not in this forum, I might be able to get help?

Hi Norman. The Prayer Forum is a precious place for encouragement, support, and prayers.

Praying for you and your precious wife.

God bless you (((hug)))