Is Death Sleep?

[UnhandledException]

I was reading the beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventists on a Website this morning. I was surprised to find that I agree with almost everything they believe. Two of the beliefs that I personally agree with but was not taught growing up, are:

1) Death is an unconscious state until Christ returns.

2) When the unrighteous die, they are gone forever. No Hell for eternity. Just gone.

I tend to agree with these two statements, Why? Take Lazarus for example. When Christ raised him from the dead, there was no mention of him being in Heaven. Was there? I mean, wouldn't Lazarus of said something like "Hey, I was Heaven enjoying a perfect eternity and you brought me back here?" I think he was sleeping just like the Adventists believe. Many at my church respond with "How about the thief on the cross?" When Christ said, "Today, you will be in paradise". Well, it's possible to be in paradise and be asleep isn't it? Maybe you do indeed go to Heaven when you die, but you're not immediately aware of it. What do you think?

The second issue. Hell. I always had trouble believing God would send someone to burn forever. I mean, what would be accomplished by this? This issue was never a real concern for me because I don't plan on going, so it's kind of a mute point. But it does show I agree more with the Seventh-day Adventists on this point then my own church.

The only issue I found that I disagreed with was the issue of baptism. Now, maybe I read it wrong, but the site seemed to imply that you have to be baptized after you have come of age. And, also, you must be baptized by immersion. I was baptized as a child. So this issue is a stickler for me.

Other then the baptism question, I agree quite a bit with the Seventh-day Adventists theology. I was raised a Presbyterian. How do you feel about the above issues?

 

[jbarcher]

I'm going to move this to the Bible Study & Exposition forum...I think this topic will be better there.

 

[Philip]

Double Post

 

[Philip]

I tend to agree with these two statements, Why? Take Lazarus for example. When Christ raised him from the dead, there was no mention of him being in Heaven. Was there? I mean, wouldn't Lazarus of said something like "Hey, I was Heaven enjoying a perfect eternity and you brought me back here?" I think he was sleeping just like the Adventists believe. Many at my church respond with "How about the thief on the cross?" When Christ said, "Today, you will be in paradise". Well, it's possible to be in paradise and be asleep isn't it? Maybe you do indeed go to Heaven when you die, but you're not immediately aware of it. What do you think?

Consider the the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. Do they seem unconscious or asleep? The prophets Elijah and Moses appeared to Christ. Were they asleep. St John saw the saints crying to God from below the alter in heaven. Were they crying in their sleep?

The second issue. Hell. I always had trouble believing God would send someone to burn forever. I mean, what would be accomplished by this? This issue was never a real concern for me because I don't plan on going, so it's kind of a mute point. But it does show I agree more with the Seventh-day Adventists on this point then my own church.

Hell is not a punishment. It is an unloving human reaction to God's unending love.

 

[herev]

I was reading the beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventists on a Website this morning. I was surprised to find that I agree with almost everything they believe. Two of the beliefs that I personally agree with but was not taught growing up, are:

1) Death is an unconscious state until Christ returns.

2) When the unrighteous die, they are gone forever. No Hell for eternity. Just gone.

I tend to agree with these two statements, Why? Take Lazarus for example. When Christ raised him from the dead, there was no mention of him being in Heaven. Was there? I mean, wouldn't Lazarus of said something like "Hey, I was Heaven enjoying a perfect eternity and you brought me back here?" I think he was sleeping just like the Adventists believe. Many at my church respond with "How about the thief on the cross?" When Christ said, "Today, you will be in paradise". Well, it's possible to be in paradise and be asleep isn't it? Maybe you do indeed go to Heaven when you die, but you're not immediately aware of it. What do you think?

The second issue. Hell. I always had trouble believing God would send someone to burn forever. I mean, what would be accomplished by this? This issue was never a real concern for me because I don't plan on going, so it's kind of a mute point. But it does show I agree more with the Seventh-day Adventists on this point then my own church.

The only issue I found that I disagreed with was the issue of baptism. Now, maybe I read it wrong, but the site seemed to imply that you have to be baptized after you have come of age. And, also, you must be baptized by immersion. I was baptized as a child. So this issue is a stickler for me.

Other then the baptism question, I agree quite a bit with the Seventh-day Adventists theology. I was raised a Presbyterian. How do you feel about the above issues?

wow--what great questions. Lazarus was not in heaven because Jesus hadn't opened the way for him to go yet. The later OT period Jewish belief can be seen in the parable of (the other) Lazarus and the rich man. Jesus presents that all have gone to the place of the dead, but there is a separation between the good and the bad (based on their works). As many believe, and can be found in the non Biblical book of The Gospel of Nicodemus, during the time Jesus was "dead" after his crucifixion, he not only defeated death, but he witnessed to those who had died under the law, then led them by the hand out of that place when he left.
as to sleeping after death--the debate goes on--my only concern--the next second I am aware of--I'll be with Jesus--I really don't care if that is seconds after death or thousands of years later--I won't know the difference--Pleasant dreams.
As to the question of Hell
we all struggle with a father image of God who would willingly send his children to hell. My own faith is that all of his children are bound for hell and that he has done all he can to stop them, even to the point of dying on the cross. Some are turned around, while others are "hell-bent." God doesn't send us to hell, he offers us salvation from it.
as to the seventh day church--I have had friends over my life who were SDA, my biggest concern is that they are taught not to enter into other denomination's places of worship. I worry anytime I see a denomination that says if you're not one of us, your doomed to hell or don't associate with those kinds of people. I'm not condemning them, I just would worry about that if I were visiting.
God Bless you in your decisions. Keep asking tough questions!

 

[PaladinValer]

The dead are fully aware that they are dead. They are awaiting for the Second Coming of the Christ in Sheol, constantly praying for the day to come. When it does, they shall be Resurrected and be Judged.

 

[herev]

The dead are fully aware that they are dead. They are awaiting for the Second Coming of the Christ in Sheol, constantly praying for the day to come. When it does, they shall be Resurrected and be Judged.

not to pose doubt, but could you give me a reference for that?

 

[Symes]

I was reading the beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventists on a Website this morning. I was surprised to find that I agree with almost everything they believe. Two of the beliefs that I personally agree with but was not taught growing up, are:

1) Death is an unconscious state until Christ returns.

2) When the unrighteous die, they are gone forever. No Hell for eternity. Just gone.

I tend to agree with these two statements, Why? Take Lazarus for example. When Christ raised him from the dead, there was no mention of him being in Heaven. Was there? I mean, wouldn't Lazarus of said something like "Hey, I was Heaven enjoying a perfect eternity and you brought me back here?" I think he was sleeping just like the Adventists believe. Many at my church respond with "How about the thief on the cross?" When Christ said, "Today, you will be in paradise". Well, it's possible to be in paradise and be asleep isn't it? Maybe you do indeed go to Heaven when you die, but you're not immediately aware of it. What do you think?

The second issue. Hell. I always had trouble believing God would send someone to burn forever. I mean, what would be accomplished by this? This issue was never a real concern for me because I don't plan on going, so it's kind of a mute point. But it does show I agree more with the Seventh-day Adventists on this point then my own church.

The only issue I found that I disagreed with was the issue of baptism. Now, maybe I read it wrong, but the site seemed to imply that you have to be baptized after you have come of age. And, also, you must be baptized by immersion. I was baptized as a child. So this issue is a stickler for me.

Other then the baptism question, I agree quite a bit with the Seventh-day Adventists theology. I was raised a Presbyterian. How do you feel about the above issues?

Not only did Lazarus say noting about his time in heaven (h was not there but asleep) there were others that had been raised from the dead as well. To my knowledge they also said nothing about being in heaven.

Let's look at this with an open mind.

Do you really think you would like to be in heaven looking down at your wife who has since re-married. I could not see that making one at all happy.

What about they suffering that you see your family going through because you are not with them.

That type of explanation does not make any sense at all.

You die, and as the Bible say you are asleep until Jesus comes.

About baptism.

The Bible does not indicate what the minimum age for baptism.

Children can be baptized, infants cannot.

Jesus was baptized by immersion. There is no other way indicated in the N.T.

 

[Symes]

wow--what great questions. Lazarus was not in heaven because Jesus hadn't opened the way for him to go yet. The later OT period Jewish belief can be seen in the parable of (the other) Lazarus and the rich man. Jesus presents that all have gone to the place of the dead, but there is a separation between the good and the bad (based on their works). As many believe, and can be found in the non Biblical book of The Gospel of Nicodemus, during the time Jesus was "dead" after his crucifixion, he not only defeated death, but he witnessed to those who had died under the law, then led them by the hand out of that place when he left.
as to sleeping after death--the debate goes on--my only concern--the next second I am aware of--I'll be with Jesus--I really don't care if that is seconds after death or thousands of years later--I won't know the difference--Pleasant dreams.
As to the question of Hell
we all struggle with a father image of God who would willingly send his children to hell. My own faith is that all of his children are bound for hell and that he has done all he can to stop them, even to the point of dying on the cross. Some are turned around, while others are "hell-bent." God doesn't send us to hell, he offers us salvation from it.
as to the seventh day church--I have had friends over my life who were SDA, my biggest concern is that they are taught not to enter into other denomination's places of worship. I worry anytime I see a denomination that says if you're not one of us, your doomed to hell or don't associate with those kinds of people. I'm not condemning them, I just would worry about that if I were visiting.
God Bless you in your decisions. Keep asking tough questions!

I am SDA and I am not aware of many of the things you say.

There are many prominent SDA preachers who take services in Protestant Churches on a Sunday.

I could name them but I will not at this stage.

As for being the only ones in heaven, that is not taught at all.

 

[Symes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by: PaladinValer

The dead are fully aware that they are dead. They are awaiting for the Second Coming of the Christ in Sheol, constantly praying for the day to come. When it does, they shall be Resurrected and be Judged.

not to pose doubt, but could you give me a reference for that?

Never seen a text that says that, can you show me one please?

 

[Andy D]

I have always had that problem with the presbyterian belief. My parents were presbyterian and my grandparents were...but I can not work out how they hold onto the belief of child baptism..when all the references I see state confess and be baptised.

I dont agree that the seventh day adventists are a cult as such like many Christians say...but I do have a problem with some beliefs of theirs...I have foud a good webpage that I have at work on their beliefs if I remember I should post it. Obviously I agree that hell exists...and yeah...why would God who is a loving God send people to hell? Well we have a soul which is an eternal being and if it cant spend eternity in God's presence due to sin (as God is also a just God) then it must go somewhere. We choose to go to hell so not like it is God sending us to hell because He can accomplish something. We all have the choice to not go to hell..but sin must be punished. Jesus paid for all sins but we only can have that freedom if we accept Christ.

I do however think that is a good point about us all sleeping until Christ returns. Either that or we have to wait somewhere until that great day.

 

[PaladinValer]

1. Our God is a God of the living, not the dead.
2. The dead are no longer in Christ? Christ's death had no impact on the dead? That defies one of the basic doctrines of the Christian faith: "Communion of saints."

 

[herev]

I am SDA and I am not aware of many of the things you say.

There are many prominent SDA preachers who take services in Protestant Churches on a Sunday.

I could name them but I will not at this stage.

As for being the only ones in heaven, that is not taught at all.

Thanks for the input, I have only limited experience--both of the people I have known were not allowed to go to my church because their preacher had told them it was dangerous. My apologies for any slight--you have corrected me.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I wanted to post this verse.
Precious in the sight IS the death of His saints.
If you really examine this verse..............it is in present tense. My daughter is up in heaven NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
GEL

 

[Symes]

Thanks for the input, I have only limited experience--both of the people I have known were not allowed to go to my church because their preacher had told them it was dangerous. My apologies for any slight--you have corrected me.

I have heard it said by many of our leading evangelists that they are often asked to preach on Sunday's at a another Protestant Church and they always do.

In your case, I cannot really comment on it as I do not know the minister concerned and will take your word as being correct.

Although I do not agree with what he has said at all.

It becomes a sad case when we allow the "clergy" to dictate to us where we can go.

 

[Symes]

I wanted to post this verse.
Precious in the sight IS the death of His saints.
If you really examine this verse..............it is in present tense. My daughter is up in heaven NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
GEL

I do not see that text saying that when a person dies they go to heaven.

Just a few questions for you.

Do you think your child is happy in heaven watching you suffer on earth?

If she is in heaven, as a mother don't you wish you could join her?

There is no doubt that heaven is a wonderful place.

If I was in your situation and believed as you do I would want to join with my child in paradise.

When Jesus resurrected the dead, not one of them said anything about heaven.

If I was one of them I would have been complaining about leaving heaven to come back to the earth.

 

[deu58]

Hello Symes

A few questions for you.

Do you think your child is happy in heaven watching you suffer on earth?

Why do you think the child is watching in the first place?

If she is in heaven, as a mother don't you wish you could join her?

Regardless of loosing someone or not , don't you wish you could be with Jesus right now?

There is no doubt that heaven is a wonderful place.

If I was in your situation and believed as you do I would want to join with my child in paradise.

Regardless of the issue of soul sleep, would you still notlong today to be with your loved ones when Christ returns?

If I was one of them I would have been complaining about leaving heaven to come back to the earth.

Why would you complain about being being a part of the greatest event in history? The physical return and establishment of Christ's rule.

Yours in Christ
DEU58

 

[deu58]

Hello Herev

My wife is SDA and some of the groups she associates with are warned not to associate with other denominations and others do not warn them.

It varies from congregation to congregation and you can find other denominations doing the same thing.

yours in Christ
DEU58

 

[herev]

Hello Herev

My wife is SDA and some of the groups she associates with are warned not to associate with other denominations and others do not warn them.

It varies from congregation to congregation and you can find other denominations doing the same thing.

yours in Christ
DEU58

Thanks, I keep learning more and more.

 

[PaladinValer]

I wanted to post this verse.
Precious in the sight IS the death of His saints.
If you really examine this verse..............it is in present tense. My daughter is up in heaven NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
GEL

That denies the Resurrection however and the Judgement, which is in violation of the Nicene Creed.