Is cussing really immoral?

[Ripheus27]

For the life of me, I can't come up with a legitimate reason to think that "swear" words are morally questionable, at least as far as use around children or other "inappropriate" situations goes. (Maybe if a nuclear device was set to go off if a nearby computer registered a person cussing in the vicinity, cussing would in that case be wrong.) Consider it this way, in reference to a word that will be indicated by means of the way I propose it to be considered:

It is not the sound of this word that is immoral, for it is part of another word for a certain kind of resilient insect, and by itself is a word for a certain kind of bird.

It is not the meaning of this word that is immoral, because scientific words referring to my manhood are not immoral.​

How, then, does the combination of a particular sound and a particular meaning make a word immoral to say, at least around children/etc.? So I think it's maybe a bit ethically superstitious, you might say, to think of cussing as somehow unethical (except, again, in triggering-a-nuke kinds of scenarios).

 

[Gadarene]

So I think it's maybe a bit ethically superstitious, you might say, to think of cussing as somehow unethical (except, again, in triggering-a-nuke kinds of scenarios).

was that a futurama reference i spy?

 

[Lilly Owl]

Proverbs 8:13

The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.

 

[Spunkn]

Cussing is about your intention when using those words. 90% of the time when someone cusses, they are using those words specifically to be offensive, when there are other words you could choose that basically mean the same thing.

"Do not give the appearance of evil" Another reason Christians should work to not cuss as much as possible. We are to stand apart from those of the world. Cussing and offending people as much as you can is seen as the "macho" and "cool" thing to do. I don't think God thinks it is cool to offend people as much as you can.

Why do you feel the need to cuss? For me, when I used to cuss a lot, it was to "fit in" and make myself appear to be "cool". Now, I feel no need to cuss. There's no point. Sure I might let one slip occasionally when I stub my toe or something, but my intent wasn't to offend anyone and old habits are still hard to break. But to intentionally cuss when you have no good reason for doing so in the first place is not pleasing to God imo.

It's not about how close you can come to the line without crossing it. It's how far away from the line should you be so that you are pleasing God.

God takes words we say very seriously. There are a huge number of verses that talk about how we talk and what we say.

 

[Ripheus27]

was that a futurama reference i spy?

Sorta subconsciously, yeah.

Proverbs 8:13: The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.

Of course perverted speech is perverted, but what makes certain kinds of speech perverted? Why/how are certain combinations of sounds and meanings perverted?

Cussing is about your intention when using those words. 90% of the time when someone cusses, they are using those words specifically to be offensive, when there are other words you could choose that basically mean the same thing.

When I say, "What the [aich ee double-hockey-sticks]," instead of, "What the heck," I don't think I'm on average intending to offend. To me, profanity is more often used to signal degrees of emotion instead of disrespect per se. For example, in the last Harry Potter book, when [forgot her name] calls Bellatrix Lestrange(sp.?) the b-word, sure, in one sense, it's to dis Voldemort's servant, but in another, it's so the reader knows how upset [forget her name] is at Bellatrix.

As for what God wants me to do, well, the Spirit has never in my memory chastised me for swearing, and I take Bible verses with heaps of salt most of the time, so the mere fact that the Bible might condemn using various c-words and so on is not enough for me to condemn those words, too, not even out of deference to my Lord. And as far as this thread is concerned, seeing as this is in the philosophy subforum, well, what the Bible says is not enough to get me anywhere.

 

[Spunkn]

Sorta subconsciously, yeah.



Of course perverted speech is perverted, but what makes certain kinds of speech perverted? Why/how are certain combinations of sounds and meanings perverted?



When I say, "What the [aich ee double-hockey-sticks]," instead of, "What the heck," I don't think I'm on average intending to offend. To me, profanity is more often used to signal degrees of emotion instead of disrespect per se. For example, in the last Harry Potter book, when [forgot her name] calls Bellatrix Lestrange(sp.?) the b-word, sure, in one sense, it's to dis Voldemort's servant, but in another, it's so the reader knows how upset [forget her name] is at Bellatrix.

As for what God wants me to do, well, the Spirit has never in my memory chastised me for swearing, and I take Bible verses with heaps of salt most of the time, so the mere fact that the Bible might condemn using various c-words and so on is not enough for me to condemn those words, too, not even out of deference to my Lord. And as far as this thread is concerned, seeing as this is in the philosophy subforum, well, what the Bible says is not enough to get me anywhere.

You can claim that it's just to convey a stronger degree of emotion, but that's really just an excuse for cussing.

When you speak about hell, in regards to the bible, it's not cussing. You're speaking about a real place, in the bible. When you say "What the hell" your intention is to make it sound "more emotional" or "more powerful" because its intended to be offensive, to get people's attention. But people use them for so long, and start to lose any sense that these words are in fact, considered offensive.

When you say "Oh my God" you are intended to be offensive. When you speak about God naturally you are not swearing, because you are not intentionally trying to be offensive about it. That's my point.

But that's between you and God. I think cussing is not something that you should do. There's really no need for it. And I think it does displease God a lot of times.

Again, there are a ton of verses in the Bible about how we should, it doesn't have to speak directly about "cussing" because it already warns you enough times to watch what you say and how you say it.

If you throw out the Bible, then we have nothing to discuss. At least not with me. If you don't care about what the Bible says, then cuss all you want.

 

[Gadarene]

Sorta subconsciously, yeah.

Antiquing?

 

[Ripheus27]

Antiquing?

Forgive me but it's been a while since I saw Futurama, and the episode I'm thinking of that might be the one (if it's only one) you're referring to, well, I watched it in a state roughly comparable to intoxication...

You can claim that it's just to convey a stronger degree of emotion, but that's really just an excuse for cussing.

I'm not sure I'm making excuses. I really think that I'm aware of the genuine reason for what I'm saying. Now you go on to say that:

When you say "Oh my God" you are intended to be offensive. When you speak about God naturally you are not swearing, because you are not intentionally trying to be offensive about it. That's my point.

But what do you mean by "intended to be offensive"? I'm not going to tend to say "God d%^m it!" around old-school Catholics or Southern Baptists (for instance), because I wouldn't want to upset them. But if I said it around other groups of people, even if it wasn't just as a "slip-up," it wouldn't be to upset the groups I was hanging around, either. Ditto for "f&$k," etc.

If you throw out the Bible, then we have nothing to discuss. At least not with me. If you don't care about what the Bible says, then cuss all you want.

So you don't have a philosophical argument against cussing? You know, there *is* a subforum for specifically Christian discussions of ethics... Not the same as this subforum, though.

 

[Spunkn]

Forgive me but it's been a while since I saw Futurama, and the episode I'm thinking of that might be the one (if it's only one) you're referring to, well, I watched it in a state roughly comparable to intoxication...



I'm not sure I'm making excuses. I really think that I'm aware of the genuine reason for what I'm saying. Now you go on to say that:



But what do you mean by "intended to be offensive"? I'm not going to tend to say "God d%^m it!" around old-school Catholics or Southern Baptists (for instance), because I wouldn't want to upset them. But if I said it around other groups of people, even if it wasn't just as a "slip-up," it wouldn't be to upset the groups I was hanging around, either. Ditto for "f&$k," etc.



So you don't have a philosophical argument against cussing? You know, there *is* a subforum for specifically Christian discussions of ethics... Not the same as this subforum, though.

These are Christian forums to begin with, why would you start a thread and then not expect the possibility of a Christian response?

No I dont have a philosophical argument against cussing, because without God in the equation, you can't really make one in my opinion.

 

[Ripheus27]

These are Christian forums to begin with, why would you start a thread and then not expect the possibility of a Christian response? No I dont have a philosophical argument against cussing, because without God in the equation, you can't really make one in my opinion.

Well, maybe someone would have an argument from natural theology or something against swear words... That would allow for a Christian and a philosophical argument against cussing, an argument that didn't depend on quoting the Bible.

 

[quatona]

For the life of me, I can't come up with a legitimate reason to think that "swear" words are morally questionable, at least as far as use around children or other "inappropriate" situations goes. (Maybe if a nuclear device was set to go off if a nearby computer registered a person cussing in the vicinity, cussing would in that case be wrong.) Consider it this way, in reference to a word that will be indicated by means of the way I propose it to be considered:

It is not the sound of this word that is immoral, for it is part of another word for a certain kind of resilient insect, and by itself is a word for a certain kind of bird.

It is not the meaning of this word that is immoral, because scientific words referring to my manhood are not immoral.​

How, then, does the combination of a particular sound and a particular meaning make a word immoral to say, at least around children/etc.? So I think it's maybe a bit ethically superstitious, you might say, to think of cussing as somehow unethical (except, again, in triggering-a-nuke kinds of scenarios).

Words per se are not immoral.
There are, however, other reasons that might make their use not recommendable.

 

[jayem]

I think it was George Carlin who said there's no such thing as bad words. Bad thoughts maybe, but no bad words.

The morality of any speech depends on the context. If it's used to hurt and express hostility towards someone, then that may be ethically questionable. There are likely better ways to communicate feelings. OTOH, if you've smashed your thumb with a hammer, it may actually relieve pain to let fly with some 4-letter words of Anglo-Saxon origin. There is evidence that cursing has an analgesic effect. But like opiate drugs, a tolerance develops if you overdo it.

Why the #$%! Do We Swear? For Pain Relief: Scientific American

 

[geneseib]

How, then, does the combination of a particular sound and a particular meaning make a word immoral to say, at least around children/etc.? So I think it's maybe a bit ethically superstitious, you might say, to think of cussing as somehow unethical (except, again, in triggering-a-nuke kinds of scenarios).

Why is it always about "what can I get by with" instead of "how can I be a blessing"?

 

[Ripheus27]

Why is it always about "what can I get by with" instead of "how can I be a blessing"?

Don't read too much negativity into this post. I'm for one arguing that swear words aren't the opposite of blessings. They shouldn't be thought of as opposites of those, anyway, for my judgment is that words in themselves are ethically neutral. Secondly, just because I have yet to post an argument in another thread supportive of a more, let's say constructive, ethical claim, does not mean that I never will here, or that I don't IRL. In my on-my-hard-drive writings, I've advocated what I call the helping theorem, i.e. to help a good thing being done is itself good. The helping theorem can in turn be used to argue fairly well for a strong principle of beneficence (in the sense of e.g. the article The Principle of Beneficence in Applied Ethics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)). Plus I've often found myself down to defend Kant's advocacy of respect for human personality in itself.

 

[essentialsaltes]

For the life of me, I can't come up with a legitimate reason to think that "swear" words are morally questionable.

You kiss your mother with that mouth?

Sorry, my actual response is...

Swearing can certainly be bad manners, but etiquette is not the same as morality.

 

[apache1]

For the life of me, I can't come up with a legitimate reason to think that "swear" words are morally questionable, at least as far as use around children or other "inappropriate" situations goes. (Maybe if a nuclear device was set to go off if a nearby computer registered a person cussing in the vicinity, cussing would in that case be wrong.) Consider it this way, in reference to a word that will be indicated by means of the way I propose it to be considered:

It is not the sound of this word that is immoral, for it is part of another word for a certain kind of resilient insect, and by itself is a word for a certain kind of bird.

It is not the meaning of this word that is immoral, because scientific words referring to my manhood are not immoral.
​

How, then, does the combination of a particular sound and a particular meaning make a word immoral to say, at least around children/etc.? So I think it's maybe a bit ethically superstitious, you might say, to think of cussing as somehow unethical (except, again, in triggering-a-nuke kinds of scenarios).

To my knowledge, the only profanity that truly is a sin is "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain". However, even the f... word, which to many is objectionable, is more of a man-made abhoration. I'm not necessarily saying ok to say that, but I think more of a no-no in a cultural, not a Biblical or sinful context. I hear people saying let your yays be yays and nays be nays covers cuss words, but to me says should be yes or no and mean what you say.

 

[bricklayer]

Morality is descriptive of God.

 

[RogerTheAtheist]

It's often seen as distasteful and sometimes arrogant to use them since they're strong words. When a child uses a curse word, it's as if they're out of place (I can't think of the phrase I'm looking for). I avoid cursing and talking about sex around children -- and don't really talk about sex with anyone because it would be boring to talk about, and I don't want to come off as a pervert that thinks only about sex, which I don't -- because I assume that their parents don't want them to start using profanity and thinking and talking about sex. Yet, I also can't think of a reason why cursing would be immoral. I don't think it is; it's part of language. It's just not a very humble way of speaking.

People that curse sometimes try to sound strong and beg for people to think they're awesome because they curse. There's usually a phase where children curse and are scared at first, but with practice they can start cursing without hesitating. By high school there's peer pressure; if you don't curse, then you're not one of the cool kids, and something's wrong with you. You're a sissy. At older ages, people are often seen as more educated if they can use more sophisticated words to say the same things instead of coming off as a middle-schooler wanting attention.

Yet, I do think that cursing has its place when used correctly. There's just a difference between using it once and a while for emphasis and cursing in every sentence because you want people to think you're tough.

 

[Eudaimonist]

For the life of me, I can't come up with a legitimate reason to think that "swear" words are morally questionable

If anything, it is because swear words can be vulgar and offensive, and ugly when used by children.

I'm not saying that I agree that using swear words is actually immoral, since swear words can be very effective and appropriate when telling someone to f--- off, which one may be morally entitled to do.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[bricklayer]

Poor language is the single most expensive habit held by the public at large.