Is Creationism a Fairy Tale?

[AV1611VET]

Even worse - he's part of H. sapiens!

In the spirit of Hebrews 11:24 -- no, I am not.

 

[AV1611VET]

IMO, what the USA really is, is a nation where many people "claim" to be christian and a lot of those who claim to be, are doing so because of social pressure. In reality, the true number of "believing" christians in the USA, is a much smaller number than advertised.

With respect to the point you're making, I don't care if nobody in the USA is a Christian. If God put His name on this country, this country is a Christian nation -- period.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, it wasn't.

Yes, it was.

Read the Mayflower Compact.

 

[AV1611VET]

Concocted in a laboratory, eh? Explains a lot, actually.

Back in a time when abortion was a crime.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes, it was.

Read the Mayflower Compact.

The Putritans didn't found America, however -- they weren't even the first ones here -- not even close.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Putritans didn't found America, however --

No kidding?

Try the Pilgrims, chief.

The Puritans named their settlement Jamestown -- the Pilgrims, Plymouth Rock.

What does God say about such antics?

Luke 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

-- they weren't even the first ones here -- not even close.

And let me guess -- Abram wasn't the first one into the Promised Land either, was he?

 

[EternalDragon]

Egypt couldn't listen to the advice because God made a point of hardening Pharaoh's heart (negating his free will, it should be noted), thus playing both sides of the conflict towards its inevitable (and desired) result -- infanticide.

I suppose you can't see that God didn't specifically alter Pharaoh's heart? It was the plagues that hardened the Pharaoh's heart. Like if I kept winning a game of chess against my opponent and he resented it. His heart would be hardened and you could say I did it but yet I did not really do it.

 

[StormanNorman]

Yes, it was.

Read the Mayflower Compact.

The current USA was created and defined by the Constitution of the United States and not the Mayflower Compact.

 

[AV1611VET]

I suppose you can't see that God didn't specifically alter Pharaoh's heart? It was the plagues that hardened the Pharaoh's heart. Like if I kept winning a game of chess against my opponent and he resented it. His heart would be hardened and you could say I did it but yet I did not really do it.

Exodus 8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Had God not hardened Pharaoh's heart, Pharaoh would have hardened his own heart.

God just did it to move things along.

In fact, when the time came, they were to get going.

Exodus 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover.

 

[AV1611VET]

The current USA was created and defined by the Constitution of the United States and not the Mayflower Compact.

Groovy.

 

[StormanNorman]

Groovy.

Indeed.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

God didn't commit any such thing. infanticide is UNLAWFUL killing. God doesn't have such a law for himself,

A semantic technicality. Call it what you want, God God both directly and indirectly slaughtered thousands of children. Killing little children, "infants and sucklings", for the crimes of their ancestors, is nothing short of wicked.

in fact, what God creates he has to right to take away. Egypt had ample warnings for this, God did lots of other miracles to prove his power. Egypt should have listened to the advice.

Only Pharaoh had the power to free the Hebrews, so why was anyone else punished? The son of the slave girl was killed; why? What crime had he done? Was it simply that he was unfortunate enough to be born Egyptian?

Only one man had the power to free the Hebrews, yet other people were put to slaughter.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Exodus 8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Had God not hardened Pharaoh's heart, Pharaoh would have hardened his own heart.

God just did it to move things along.

In fact, when the time came, they were to get going.

Exodus 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover.

You'd think, if God was capable of hardening hearts, he could have softened Pharaoah's heart. Free will isn't an issue, as God gleefully stole the free will from the thousands of Egyptians he put to the slaughter. Indeed, if God is willing to kill en masse, you'd think he'd just clap his hands and teleport the Hebrews to freedom. No horrific genocide of innocent Egyptian children. So one wonders why God, having less evil options available, deliberately chose the 'kill the babies' option.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

God.

Where?

Why isn't a Muslim or Buddhist nation, what?

I meant, why isn't it a Muslim nation (etc).

It means it is a nation whose God is the LORD, because God placed His name on it.

How does one know if God has placed his name on a nation?

At one time, I believe it was.

Britian was a lighthouse for God, especially in the days of Charles Spurgeon; but today, she is a mission field.

I don't know how much longer we're going to be a Christian nation; but should God stamp ICHABOD across our land, I hope it's after the Rapture.

What is this all of a sudden?

If you want to suspect if another country is Christian or not, one of the best ways is to see if they follow the Abrahamic covenant or not.

Well, the US has never followed the Abrahamic covenant, yet it's still proclaimed to be a Christian nation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Indeed, if God is willing to kill en masse, you'd think he'd just clap his hands and teleport the Hebrews to freedom.

Right ... um ... God doesn't work that way.

Deuteronomy 11:25 There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you.

And listen to the words of Rahab the Harlot:

Joshua 2:9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.
Joshua 2:10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.
Joshua 2:11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

Doing it your way, and they would have been saying:

LOL! Bring 'em on! Hey, kids! Come to the windows! Watch these guys suddenly vanish and reappear on the other side of Jordan! We'll go chase them around awhile, just to see them vanish and reappear and vanish again and reappear! In fact, if we can catch one, we can put him in an arena and sell tickets to see the Vanishing Jew!

 

[OllieFranz]

Yes, it was.

Read the Mayflower Compact.

Individual colonies were founded as places of religious refuge from the Church of England by the Puritans and Pilgrims (New England), the Quakers (Pennsylvania), the Catholics (Maryland), the Presbyterians (Appalachian highlands) and the Baptists (Appalachian lowlands). Most were as intolerent of the others as the CoE was, or worse. In Massachsetts, Quakers were executed right alongside witches.

The Quakers themselves, though were welcoming. They invited in the German Mennonite sects (the Pennsylvania "Dutch"), including the Amish. The also were freindly and respectful with their native neighbors, the six nations of the Iriquois league.

By 1776, there were as many freethinkers (like Franklin and Jefferson), Unitarians (Hancock and Adams), deists, Jews, and "CINOs" (Christians in name only) as there were true Christians. Both the First Amendment and the Treaty of Tripoli confirm that we were not founded on any one religious doctrine.

 

[EternalDragon]

You'd think, if God was capable of hardening hearts, he could have softened Pharaoah's heart. Free will isn't an issue, as God gleefully stole the free will from the thousands of Egyptians he put to the slaughter. Indeed, if God is willing to kill en masse, you'd think he'd just clap his hands and teleport the Hebrews to freedom. No horrific genocide of innocent Egyptian children. So one wonders why God, having less evil options available, deliberately chose the 'kill the babies' option.

It's simple. God is more wise than you are. What you missed in the equation, God didn't miss.

 

[OllieFranz]

No kidding?

Try the Pilgrims, chief.

The Puritans named their settlement Jamestown -- the Pilgrims, Plymouth Rock.

Wrong again. The Puritans founded Boston in Massachusetts Bay. Virginia, both The lost Roanoake expedition and the Jamestown settlement were strictly commercial interests, financed and populated by Church of England Cavaliers.

The Puritans settled close to Plymouth and got along with the Pilgrims because they were part of the same revivalist movement. The difference was that the Pilgims were separatists, while the Puritans had (at first) hoped to "purify" the CoE. Many second generation American Puritans returned to England to fight for Cromwell in the English Civil War. After the Restoration, many Roundheads returned to New England, and their denomination was renamed "Congregationalist."

 

[AV1611VET]

Both the First Amendment and the Treaty of Tripoli confirm that we were not founded on any one religious doctrine.

Ollie, let's all just quit spinning our keyboards and cut to the chase, eh?

Either God placed His name on this nation, or He didn't.

I believe He did, and I believe the fact that we support Israel is powerful evidence of that.

If you don't think He did, or if anyone doesn't even think He exists, let alone placed His name here, that's their prerogative.

Fair enough?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Right ... um ... God doesn't work that way.

Evidently. He could have worked differently, he could have avoided the slaughter of thousands of children, but he choose not to. Why?

Deuteronomy 11:25 There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you.

And listen to the words of Rahab the Harlot:

Joshua 2:9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.
Joshua 2:10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.
Joshua 2:11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

Doing it your way, and they would have been saying:

LOL! Bring 'em on! Hey, kids! Come to the windows! Watch these guys suddenly vanish and reappear on the other side of Jordan! We'll go chase them around awhile, just to see them vanish and reappear and vanish again and reappear! In fact, if we can catch one, we can put him in an arena and sell tickets to see the Vanishing Jew!

God could simply poof them straight to Israel, and the Egyptians would be none the wiser. God is omniscient and omnipotent, so must necessarily know of all possible options, including ones we humans haven't considered.

But if God is limited and can't make overt displays of power, he could just as easily cause a series of innocuous 'accidents' that ultimately lead to the Hebrews' escape. Or, indeed, prevent their enslavement in the first place.

But instead, God prefers enslavement and genocide, fear and suffering. He had limitless options, but chose the one that results in the killing of children.