Is Creationism a Fairy Tale?

[TLK Valentine]

That's not the scenario I put forth, and flightless birds were not introduced into the conversation until after I had responded; a tactic that told me the question was baited.

Once again, perhaps you can tell me where it* fails?

* My scenario.

Well there you have it -- your scenario doesn't reflect reality.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well there you have it -- your scenario doesn't reflect reality.

That's fine if it doesn't.

The trick is telling me where it fails, isn't it?

Feel free to do so.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's fine if it doesn't.

The trick is telling me where it fails, isn't it?

Feel free to do so.

I just did -- let me try this again, slowly...

your... scenario... doesn't... match... what... we... find... in... the... fossil... record.

 

[AV1611VET]

your... scenario... doesn't... match... what... we... find... in... the... fossil... record.

So if we had a canyon with five beast-footed dinosaurs and five eagles fill up with water, killing and fossilizing all ten; you would expect to find the eagles underneath the beast-footed dinosaurs in the fossil record?

Is that what you want me to believe?

 

[lasthero]

So if we had a canyon with five beast-footed dinosaurs and five eagles fill up with water, killing and fossilizing all ten; you would expect to find the eagles underneath the beast-footed dinosaurs in the fossil record?

Is that what you want me to believe?

Why would the flood kill the eagles? Wouldn't they just fly out of the canyon?

Also, it sort of depends on the dinosaur. They were quite capable of swimming.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why would the flood kill the eagles? Wouldn't they just fly out of the canyon?

Also, it sort of depends on the dinosaur. They were quite capable of swimming.

You haven't been following our conversation, have you?

 

[AV1611VET]

You haven't been following our conversation, have you?

No, it's you not thinking the story through, a good liar must have a good memory, creationists usually don't so they use BS to get out of conversations, creationists because of their beliefs are forced to start out wrong, they then try and put things right by making things up and getting themselves confused, then comes the BS.

The reason creationists never correct other creationists is because none of them know what they are supposed to believe, if it sounds crazy enough they will either nod and go along or say nothing.
Garbage in garbage out.

Just "no" would have sufficed.

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you take 'no' for an answer?

Of course I would.

You have "no" written all over your post.

The question that I was asked basically was:

Why do we see theropods giving way to birds in the fossil record?

And I answered that the theropods would have died first, then fossilized; then the birds would have died and fossilized.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's it, talk about anything just as long as you are not made to think about what it is you believe.

My friend, I'll run rings around you in the thinking category.

As many times as I have been asked to "think outside the box" and/or told I'm "brainwashed" because I can't think for myself, I've learned to live up to the Mood Icon I have chosen to display.

It's nice to meet you, by the way.

I have heard it takes special training to make yourself believe blatant lies, is that true?

I go out of my way to avoid saying people do that ... including myself.

 

[JWGU]

Haha, I just read through AV1611VET's scenario and I think it is quite a bit trickier than people are giving it credit for.

The real problem with the argument, of course, is radiation dating of the surrounding strata.

 

[AV1611VET]

You say that then tell me you are a literal Bible believer, one statement contradicts the other.

I can actually do both, because I both know the dots (basic doctrine) and can connect them (with suppositions).

So I can both think outside the box ("backwater"), and I can think inside the box ("brainwashed") at the same time.

You believe you have made your own choices because that's what you were trained to believe.

And who makes your choices for you?

Creationism flies in the face of reality...

As it should.

... and you are OK with that because of how you were raised.

What do you want me to do? pine away in cognitive dissonance?

I honestly hope that you die as a creationist because if you ever realize before then what's was done to you it will destroy you,

Yes, I know.

You've told me that several times here over the years.

do you not see the children in your church being indoctrinated?

I sure do. Is something wrong with that?

of course you don't, you see them being told the truth, just as the Muslim young are told the truth.

When it comes to creationism, even the Muslims believe in the first 5 words of the Bible.

Believe me ... you're a minority on this planet.

You need to get out more, before you run out of names to use for your sockpuppets.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you telling me you did not know it was me until this post?

I suspected you a couple of posts ago.

So I am a minority on this planet, I would rather be like that than believe something just because everyone else believed it.

E=MC[sup]3[/sup], does it?

AV you are a fool to yourself and deep down you know it.

Sorry ... you can't pin atheism on me.

 

[JWGU]

bloxer, who are you a newer incarnation of?

 

[JWGU]

This forum could use some double-posting protection.

 

[mzungu]

So if we had a canyon with five beast-footed dinosaurs and five eagles fill up with water, killing and fossilizing all ten; you would expect to find the eagles underneath the beast-footed dinosaurs in the fossil record?

Is that what you want me to believe?

You are forgetting that although these eagles died in a canyon; we can still discern the strata they died in to the higher placed much older strata that the dino fossils are embedded in. There are many methods that are used to date these strata.

Also another thing you seem to miss is that you will not find eagle fossils within dinosaur fossils. If such a thing were to be discovered then it would shock the foundations of ToE.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are forgetting that although these eagles died in a canyon; we can still discern the strata they died in to the higher placed much older strata that the dino fossils are embedded in.

So you date the fossils according to the strata they're found in ... right?

There are many methods that are used to date these strata.

And one is: you date the strata according to the fossils found in them ... right?

Also another thing you seem to miss is that you will not find eagle fossils within dinosaur fossils.

Because the dinosaurs didn't eat them, or because they flew on a higher plane than these theropods?

If such a thing were to be discovered then it would shock the foundations of ToE.

It would be like finding a Pharaoh at the bottom of the Red Sea, wouldn't it?

 

[mzungu]

So you date the fossils according to the strata they're found in ... right?

Yes.

And one is: you date the strata according to the fossils found in them ... right?

No. The same type of fossils may be found in different strata, so it is the strata that is dated first.

Because the dinosaurs didn't eat them, or because they flew on a higher plane than these theropods?

Sorry I meant "within the same strata as the dino fossils". But if dinosaur fossils were found with eagles fossils inside them then this would be even more compelling evidence against ToE. Some Dinosaur fossils have been found with the fossilised remains of its last dinner.

It would be like finding a Pharaoh at the bottom of the Red Sea, wouldn't it?

If the remains of a human were to be found on the bottom of the Red sea then the scientific method would be:

1 To date the remains.
2 To identify the remains (find surrounding artefacts etc.)
3 To identify how the remains got there (ship wreck, etc).
4 To add all the evidences together and publish them for peer review.

If for instance the remains of a chariot were found but no remains of a ship then indeed it would make for compelling evidence but not so without the remains of soldiers and their equipment. Remember that the according to the Bible Pharaoh chased Moses with an army. He did not go it alone.

Were such evidence to be found that supported the Bible's claims then it would not stop there. Science would investigate what natural forces could have caused the sea level to dramatically lower so mush so, so that one could cross to the other side on foot or chariot. Such sea level changes can only be caused by collapsing giant volcanoes like the one in Santorini, Greece. It collapsed at around the time of the great plagues of Egypt and the crossing of Moses.

But without empirical evidences; the Bible's claims are just that: Claims.

 

[frogman2x]

No, they didn't get it from their parents. Nylon didn't even exist before then, so they couldn't have had the ability to digest it

It does not matter when nylon was invented. They could have had that ability from the beginning but they did not need to use it. It really doesn' matter---they were still bacteria.

Also, where did these Italian Wall Lizards get their cecal valves?<<

From their parents probably fom a mutation. How do y ou explain how they got them?

Italian wall lizard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When the lizards came to the island, they didn't have cecal valves. Now they do. Where did that come from? Their parents didn't have them.

How do you know they didn't have them. Have you not heard of recessive genes. Again, it doesn't matter, they are still bacteria. Evidentrly the ones with and the ones without the valve could mate. If so they are the exact same species.

Are all bacteria one kind?

Of course not.

They reproduce asexually, so how does that work?

All that reporduce asexually are a different species, but they always produce "after their kind."

Wouldn't ever bacteria be a kind unto itself, then?

.

I think you are starting to catch on.

Why are you acting like bacteria are one kind?

I'm not. BTW you had a typo. "Ever" should have been "every." I am also trying to get on with the typo police.

Which has happened. For instance, these sheep were breed to the point where they can no longer interbreed with other sheep. They can't bring forth with other sheep anymore, so by your definition, they're a new kind.

Molecular analysis of wild and domestic sheep ... [Proc Biol Sci. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI

No. You need to know why they can't interbreed. Too much interbreeding can cause the inability to breed even with their own kind.

 

[nuttypiglet]

No, it's you not thinking the story through, a good liar must have a good memory, creationists usually don't so they use BS to get out of conversations, creationists because of their beliefs are forced to start out wrong, they then try and put things right by making things up and getting themselves confused, then comes the BS.

The reason creationists never correct other creationists is because none of them know what they are supposed to believe, if it sounds crazy enough they will either nod and go along or say nothing.
Garbage in garbage out.

You need to stop seeing yourself as some kind of special princess on a high pedestal. You don't have all the answers, and are an equal human being to ALL others.

 

[frogman2x]

You say that then tell me you are a literal Bible believer, one statement contradicts the other.
You believe you have made your own choices because that's what you were trained to believe.
Creationism flies in the face of reality and you are OK with that because of how you were raised.

I was not raised that way and I beleive God did it just as Genesis says. Can you prove He didn't?

I honestly hope that you die as a creationist because if you ever realize before then what's was done to you it will destroy you, do you not see the children in your church being indoctrinated?

What are they being indoctrinated in that is wrong?

You have also been indoctdrinated, just in a different category.

of course you don't, you see them being told the truth, just as the Muslim young are told the truth.

Then help us all out and prove what we have been indoctrinated in is wrong.