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Is Creationism a Fairy Tale?

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TLK Valentine

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Who decided on the 66 books to be included in the Bible and with what criteria?

If you're a Christian, the Holy Spirit.

if you're not, then there's no reason to accept any of the books of the Bible at face value as divinely inspired.

Sorry friend, you can't have it both ways.
 
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lasthero

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BUT I had to laugh at them because they are simply not correct. Have you actually checked any of them for yourself and seen the errors stated are wrong?

So you're not going to say WHY they're wrong?

but in religion you are your own church and must seek the truth.

Translation: You can make crap up.

, and not simply copying the work of others which has been proved wrong on several occasions.

Yeah, I use sources. Sue me. It's a much better tactic than simply making things up. You should try it.

When would these several occasions be?

By the way, are you going to actually show any support for your claim that the 'almost all Biblical scholars accept Enoch should have been included'?
 
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JWGU

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While I haven't independently verified any of that list, I imagine if it is indeed full of holes as you say you can appreciate how annoying it is to people who understand science when people who don't blindly copy and paste similar lists of quotes. I suspect the same issues arise: incorrect information, outdated information, correct but irrelevant information, and correct, relevant information, but which has subtleties that change the whole dynamic of the situation.

In all cases, the universal factor is that the person presenting the evidence doesn't really care about it at all--the evidence means nothing to that person so it doesn't bother him or her if it is full of holes, it is just an argument presented for somebody else's sake. In fact, now that I realize that (I literally just realized it now) I understand why most creationists (the ones who aren't also scientists, anyway) can brush off devastating scientific deconstructions of their arguments. The science simply doesn't mean anything to them in the first place, so they don't care. That's amazing.

(You really don't, do you nutty? Be honest. It's okay to admit you just don't care about science.)
 
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TLK Valentine

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lunar eclipses and using software are not difficult.

I do believe my entire point was that none of it is particularly difficult if you know your stuff -- or know someone who does.

So you believe that John, while exiled on Patmos, wrote the book of revelation using Stellarium and a laptop?

Nope, but that's the only alternative you can think of, so who am I to argue?

Hint: People were studying astronomy long before Stellarium and laptops.


I very much doubt that these events would be difficult to predict with a little mathematics.

On top of that we have the rest of the sign, after Jupiter is born out of Virgo.
Perhaps you have a reference I have missed which confirms John had great knowledge of astronomy/astrology?

I don't need John to know it -- I just need someone besides God to know it, and your entire "only God could've predicted this" claim is a bust.

And since the astronomy to figure it out is pretty simple to anyone who knew the craft, your claim is, indeed, a bust.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Well, given then that you are your own church, why should we follow you if our goal is to be our own church as well?
 
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OllieFranz

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If you're a Christian, the Holy Spirit.

if you're not, then there's no reason to accept any of the books of the Bible at face value as divinely inspired.

Sorry friend, you can't have it both ways.

There are no less than ten different lists of canon that are accepted in different Christian churches. Of the ten, only one includes the book of Enoch. That list belongs to two churches in Ethiopia which broke away from the Coptic church in 1959. When Eritrea gained independence from Ethiopia in 1993, one of the two churches ended up in the new country.
 
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Loudmouth

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In response to being presented with the scientific evidence, we now have a creationist who invents a fairy tale from whole cloth as a reason to ignore the scientific evidence.
 
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Davian

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200 is the number quoted in the book of Enoch, they were the watchers.
For one, 60 skeletons of large humanoid creatures were removed from a cave, helped by locals, never to be seen again once the museums got their hands on them.

Pictures!



 
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JWGU

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O look says nothing, I am going to become something.

That sums up evolution perfectly.

k
What about you, frogman? Do you actually believe your own scientific arguments? Are you seriously concerned if one or all of your arguments are flat out wrong? Or do you see evolutionists as otherwise sane people who happen to believe in a crazy theory, whose game you have to play if you want to engage them?
 
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frogman2x

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Two things to note here--firstly, the question I was asking was personally directed at nutty.

I beleive this is an open forum. I do not have to be invited. If I jump in and you are not interested ub discussing it with me. You can just ignore me. I will understand.

Based on your pattern of argument I do not think there are any circumstances under which you would accept the theory of evolution--if there were, you would have done so long ago.

Not true. Present some biological facts that would make it possible and I will gladly jump on your bandwagon.



Of course they will have to show me actual proof. How else can you say evolution is true. I don't have to witness it.


If you think I've mischaracterized your hypothetical response, tell me how; if not, perhaps the predictability of your response is because your answers are invariant regardless of evidence, which is what led me to the conclusion that you cannot be convinced in the first place.[/quote]

I certainly can't be convince by dogmatic statement with no evidence.

Let me make it easy for you. Explain how an offsdpring can get a trait from parents who do not have the gene for the trait.


The second is this strange notion that creationists seem to have that evolution "is just a religion" or can be reduced to religious terms or something, which is nonsense.

Your brush is way too wide. While some may say that, most do not.


Case in point, I had only the vaguest idea who either of those people are until I looked them up just now. I certainly don't uncritically accept everything a handful of people say.

It is hard to believe that an evolutionist has not heard of Gould. I can understand whey may not have heard of Mayr. When you looked them up what did you learn?


Actually it does. In over 100 years no intermediate fossils have been found. If evolution ws true the great majority of fossils would be transitional.


Things that do not count as biological evidence of whale evolution:
* DNA evidence ("circumstantial", not evidence against a designer


There is no DNA evidence linking land animals to sea life.


Fossils of transitional species (it wasn't just Gingerich, but since fossils don't propose a mechanism they are obviously invalid, not evidence against a designer)

Are you saying the designer is God?


* Numerous shared traits with mammals but not fish or other marine life ("Only evols think that proves something." Not evidence against a designer

OK


Are you smarter than God?


Time is not the friend of evolution. It cannot change proven biological facts. I don't demand to see anything. I expect biological evidence for what is said. Is that unreasonable. Speciation is not a mechanism for an A to become a B. While some are unable to mate both remain the same species. The salamanders remain salamanders and if they can't find a mate, they become exinct salamanders.
 
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Loudmouth

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OllieFranz

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I beleive this is an open forum. I do not have to be invited. If I jump in and you are not interested ub discussing it with me. You can just ignore me. I will understand.

It was quite clear that his remark was not intended as "How dare you interrupt myconversation with nuttypiglet." It was intended as "Nuttypiglet made a specific statement which you would never make. My question was not a general one, but was specifically aimed at trying to understand what his point was when he made that statement. However, I will discuss your points as well." He did respond to your reply in depth. He was not ignoring you.
 
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nuttypiglet

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Science (real science) is great, I love it. If it wasn't for science I wouldn't have 10 stents and a triple bypass to my coronary arteries keeping me alive today. If it wasn't for science, I wouldn't have been brought back to life twice on the operating table. If it wasn't for science I wouldn't have this wonderful computer with which I can communicate to people all around the globe. If it wasn't for science we wouldn't appreciate the universe as much as we do today. But I must emphasise this is REAL science I'm speaking of. Quantum physics is just amazing too, it's opening doors to some astounding possibilities. So yes, I love science.
 
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mzungu

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Actually it does. In over 100 years no intermediate fossils have been found. If evolution ws true the great majority of fossils would be transitional.
This is absolutely not true. All species are subject to natural selection and are thus all transitional. This means that all fossils are transitional too. The very word "transitional" is a misconception. Have you ever read ToE?




There is no DNA evidence linking land animals to sea life.
This is a lie. Take the time to read the whole article: 'Living Fossil' Gets Its Genome Sequenced | Science/AAAS | News



Are you smarter than God?
You may as well ask "Are you smarter than Zeus". How can one be smarter than a non existent being
 
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nuttypiglet

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Which is another reason to disregard his entire fairy tale.

Well we all get to choose our own fairy tales dont we. If you choose the fairy tale which says "350 million years ago, fish climbed onto a river bank and in less than 200 million years, they filled the land with thousands of 4 legged creatures, many of which changed to bipedal. Oh and they grew in that time to become many dinosaurs that became extinct after a 150 million year reign. This gave mammals a real chance to finally get evolved and within 65 million years we had modern man who can look at the stars and say "Who am I, what is my purpose". Now THAT is a fairy tale hard to believe.
 
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JWGU

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Okay--great! That's really good for me to hear. So I guess my next question would be, do you have any questions about the various mechanisms for change in DNA over time? This is regardless of common descent, and stuff we can easily verify in a lab--chemistry, physics, and even information theory, all "real science" I think you'd agree (or math). I can't guarantee I can answer them, but there are lots of biologists on this subforum and they love to help spread knowledge, especially for people who are really enthusiastic about science.
 
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