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If in order to make the argument for a doctrinal position, one side has to resort to claiming their opponents hate God, then they have lost the argument. It's that simple.You did not. But if the Calvinists are right about God, you hate him. It's that simple.
Not so. It means one side loves their idol, and the other loves God. It's either or. There are only two positions. Works or grace.If in order to make the argument for a doctrinal position, one side has to resort to claiming their opponents hate God, then they have lost the argument. It's that simple.
That's ridiculous. You are calling receiving Christ salvation by works. (and not grace) And accusing of idolatry and hating God. A very bad thing to be involved with.Not so. It means one side loves their idol, and the other loves God. It's either or. There are only two positions. Works or grace.
Not so. It means one side loves their idol, and the other loves God. It's either or. There are only two positions. Works or grace.
All are true. Not backing away. Is it true you hate God as presented by Calvinism?
I take Paul very literally. As a result, I agree with the Calvinists that Arminianism tends to water down the force of his statements. I agree with Calvinists, therefore:Not so. It means one side loves their idol, and the other loves God. It's either or. There are only two positions. Works or grace.
Those are great points.I take Paul very literally. As a result, I agree with the Calvinists that Arminianism tends to water down the force of his statements. I agree with Calvinists, therefore:
(1) That regeneration is monergistic.
(2) That God predestined a specific, designated set of individuals (a foreknown and limited number of individuals) termed 'the elect'.
The PROBLEM is that Calvin assumed he was seeing the whole picture (oh the fallibility of exegesis!). He should have REALLY taken to heart Paul's words that God's ways are 'past finding out' (Rom 11).
Calvin MUST have been overlooking SOMETHING (I'd tell you what it is but I don't think you'd listen), because Paul, in some places, spoke as though ANYONE could be saved. For example he wrote:
"Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some" (1Cor 9).
He even seemed to express a note of contingency/uncertainty regarding the salvation of the elect:
"Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory" (2 Tim 2:10).
Do you hear the concern in Paul's voice? The anguish? I do. To paraphrase what Paul just said, "I work EXTRA HARD to make sure that the elect obtain salvation."
If by any chance your Calvinism stifles intercession for the lost - if you assume that you can have no effect on the number of people who actually get saved - I suggest you start interceding. Otherwise I PROMISE you that, on judgment day, you'll feel a lot of remorse and regret for having ASSUMED what Calvin had no right to assume.
Not sure. Good idea though.I believe they are referring to John 3:20.
Calvinism and Arminianism present two different Christs. Two different Christianities, two different means of salvation and so on.Loving God i think has nothing to do with being calvinist or arminian.
Both positions can be held by true christians i think, some maybe wrong of course but what you do is taking things too far.
Not everyone has all the answers you know, christians try to follow Jesus and maybe try to get closer to God the best they can, but there is always some things subject to different interpretations and that we don't know 100 percent if it is some way or the other.
Receiving by an act of the will turns the gospel into law ans grace into works. Receiving as you receive a pat on the back retains the gospel of grace.That's ridiculous. You are calling receiving Christ salvation by works. (and not grace) And accusing of idolatry and hating God. A very bad thing to be involved with.
Two sides of the same coin...Calvinism and Arminianism present two different Christs. Two different Christianities, two different means of salvation and so on.
Not really. Grace is not works visa versa.Two sides of the same coin...
How does "receiving" turn the gospel into law?Receiving by an act of the will turns the gospel into law ans grace into works. Receiving as you receive a pat on the back retains the gospel of grace.
If salvation is conditional, the gospel becomes a law to obey rather than the good news announcing salvation to all who happen to believe what they hear.How does "receiving" turn the gospel into law?
Receiving is not works either.Not really. Grace is not works visa versa.
You save yourself at Christ's expense and rob God of his glory if salvation is based on meeting conditions.Receiving is not works either.
Salvation is not - earned - by receiving it.
Not the - wage - paid for the "work" of receiving.
Happen?If salvation is conditional, the gospel becomes a law to obey rather than the good news announcing salvation to all who happen to believe what they hear.
This is what Jesus says. "Whoever believes has eternal life". He does not say "whoever chooses to believe has eternal life". If you choose to believe, it's because you don't believe.Happen?
Those who "happen to believe"?
You make salvation a "happen"stance. lol
"I heard a sermon and I happened to believe. Not sure why."
But aren't they REQUIRED to hear? So they can HAPPEN to believe.You save yourself at Christ's expense and rob God of his glory if salvation is based on meeting conditions.
Nobody can perceive Christ or hear the gospel at a spiritual level unless born again.But aren't they REQUIRED to hear? So they can HAPPEN to believe.
It was a lot of "work" getting to that meeting. The traffic was terrible.
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