Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[Dave L]

Receiving Christ is an admission that we are not sufficient in ourselves. Yet you see the opposite.

Dead people cannot receive Christ. They can only hate him (as many do in this forum) and choose idols instead.

 

[Dave L]

Receiving Christ is an admission that we are not sufficient in ourselves. Yet you see the opposite.

Only good people would do this and scripture says there aren't any.

 

[Saint Steven]

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

Find anything in the flesh that will discern and accept Christ.

Envy perhaps, but you are missing the point.

Receiving Christ is not a work of the flesh. Imagine a person floundering in the ocean while someone throws them a lifeline. If they take hold of the line are they saving themselves? Or cooperating with the rescue?

 

[Dave L]

Envy perhaps, but you are missing the point.

Receiving Christ is not a work of the flesh. Imagine a person floundering in the ocean while someone throws them a lifeline. If they take hold of the line are they saving themselves? Or cooperating with the rescue?

The flesh cannot discern the true Christ, It will choose a false Christ every time.

 

[Saint Steven]

Dead people cannot receive Christ. They can only hate him (as many do in this forum) and choose idols instead.

I was dead when I received Christ. Are you claiming that you weren't?

Ephesians 2:1-2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

 

[Saint Steven]

The flesh cannot discern the true Christ, It will choose a false Christ every time.

You seem to see false Christs everywhere except in your doctrine.

 

[Dave L]

You seem to see false Christ's everywhere except in your doctrine.

You do not understand how wicked and incapacitated by sin people are.

 

[Dave L]

I was dead when I received Christ. Are you claiming that you weren't?

Ephesians 2:1-2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

But alive enough to reject him?

 

[Saint Steven]

You do not understand how wicked and incapacitated by sin people are.

Incapacitated from being Calvinists? ???

 

[Saint Steven]

But alive enough to reject him?

Lost = spiritually dead.

 

[Dave L]

Lost = spiritually dead.

You think the flesh must perform a self-righteous work of obedience before God steps in and imparts the New Birth. This is completely backwards.

 

[Dave L]

Incapacitated from being Calvinists? ???

Your hatred of God as presented by the Calvinists only proves my point. Only those who are born again can discern the true Christ.

 

[Saint Steven]

You think the flesh must perform a self-righteous work of obedience before God steps in and imparts the New Birth. This is completely backwards.

Not what I said. You are projecting your own conclusions on me.
I said salvation is a gift that we must receive. (by an act of our free will)
It would be hard to find a Christian that didn't understand this. But here you are.

I wrote: "Lost = spiritually dead." and you did not agree.
It would be hard to find a Christian that didn't agree with that. But here you are.

 

[Dave L]

Not what I said. You are projecting your own conclusions on me.
I said salvation is a gift that we must receive. (by an act of our free will)
It would be hard to find a Christian that didn't understand this. But here you are.

I wrote: "Lost = spiritually dead." and you did not agree.
It would be hard to find a Christian that didn't agree with that. But here you are.

If free will decides salvation, it is the savior and the idol you trust in. It is a symptom of forcing a worldly understanding of how every day law depends of free will to make it work. But the gospel is not law.

 

[Saint Steven]

Your hatred of God as presented by the Calvinists only proves my point. Only those who are born again can discern the true Christ.

My hatred of God?

Sinking ever lower in doctrinal claims.
As you say, the Calvinists prove your point.

Could anything be more divisive?
Labeling doctrinal opponents as hating God?
Simply because you have a difference of doctrinal opinion.

And discernment is a spiritual gift. (related to prophecy)
I thought you were a Cessationist.

 

[Dave L]

My hatred of God?

Sinking ever lower in doctrinal claims.
As you say, the Calvinists prove your point.

Could anything be more divisive?
Labeling doctrinal opponents as hating God?
Simply because you have a difference of doctrinal opinion.

And discernment is a spiritual gift. (related to prophecy)
I thought you were a Cessationist.

If the God presented by Calvinism is the bibical God, (and I believe it is), you hate him and prefer the Arminian version instead.

 

[Saint Steven]

If free will decides salvation, it is the savior and the idol you trust in. It is a symptom of forcing a worldly understanding of how every day law depends of free will to make it work. But the gospel is not law.

So, if I lift a package (gift) from under the tree, then my lifting "becomes" the giver? My receiving becomes the source? That's ridiculous.

 

[Dave L]

So, if I lift a package (gift) from under the tree, then my lifting "becomes" the giver? My receiving becomes the source? That's ridiculous.

Grace raises you from the dead so that you can see the package under the tree and want to lift it.

 

[Saint Steven]

If the God presented by Calvinism is the bibical God, (and I believe it is), you hate him and prefer the Arminian version instead.

You are claiming that Arminians hate God.
Armininism is merely an opinion about election.
Which you appear to have completely lost sight of.

 

[Saint Steven]

Grace raises you from the dead so that you can see the package under the tree and want to lift it.

And with this sort of ridiculous hair-splitting you declare that I hate God?