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Why didn't the Samaritans receive the gifts from Philip who baptized them? But needed the Apostles to impart the gifts?
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Why didn't the Samaritans receive the gifts from Philip who baptized them? But needed the Apostles to impart the gifts?I believe Paul wanted to personally discern prophetically what gifts went to whom.
He wasn't limiting how this could happen. In the scripture below the Elders in Ephesus discerned and bestowed a gift for Timothy. Not Apostles. Not Apostles. Not Apostles.
1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.
What went wrong here?The Holy Spirit turns them into believers. You cannot believe in any true sense otherwise.
Because there are no formulas.Why didn't the Samaritans receive the gifts from Philip who baptized them? But needed the Apostles to impart the gifts?
Who says they spoke in tongues?Because there are no formulas.
Did they Apostles lay hands on the three thousand new believers on the Day of Pentecost? Or the five thousand in Acts chapter four?
All believers since Abel had the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit thereof. They did not have the baptism with the Holy Spirit until Pentecost except for a few OT prophets.What went wrong here?
Acts 8:15
When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
Acts 19:2
and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
No, actually Scripture depicts outpourings across the history books from Genesis through Acts, proving that Christ's OLD TESTAMENT MINISTRY of outpouring Him hasn't ceased. (And if we had biblical history books beyond Acts, we see more of the pattern continuing). This is where some Christians get confused, thinking that He initiated it in the NT. No - He RELINQUISHED that glory for purposes of the Incarnation, and reassumed it afterwards.You are saying the gifts came in other ways without direct scriptural support. Scripture actually says they came through the two outpourings or an apostle's hands.
Agreed - well I think Adam and Eve got saved too, but yes.All believers since Abel had the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit thereof.
Interesting. You think that all Christians got something new on Pentecost? Beyond the fruits of the Spirit? That would have to be a charismatic something, then, right?They did not have the baptism with the Holy Spirit until Pentecost except for a few OT prophets.
I never noticed this post.
Actually I don't mind so much you disagreeing - it's the REASONS for disagreement that concern me.
Since hermeneutics is an imperfect science, it especially needs rules to avoid absolute chaos. It's not anything goes. Therefore if an interpretation:
(1) is an unprecedented use of Hebrew or Greek language
(2) Or is a violation of proper use of language as we know it
Then those who insist on that interpretation should be FORTHCOMING (openly admit) that they are embracing apparent insanity. That's all I ask. Do you admit this? Because I gave you two arguments that are virtually apodictic, meaning that the evidence OVERWHELMINGLY points in one direction.
- In post #3, I pointed out that it is a violation of language, as we know it, to distinguish same-typed beings by type. That argument stands unrefuted - I don't think anyone on that thread (several hundred posts) even ATTEMPTED to refute it.
- In post #5, I pointed out that, from the standpoint of CONTEXTUAL exgesis, the translatoin Breath/Wind trumps Spirit/Ghost hands-down. And not just contextually in the sense of CONNOTATION, but also in the sense of ACTUAL PHYSICAL DYNAMICS. Unlike a physical Wind, an intangible Spirit cannot push waters of the Red Sea apart.
Whoa....Hold up one moment. You can't use one illogical concept as a basis for 'proving' another. Creation ex nihilo appears to be an illogical concept. It appears to be insanity. Imagine for example, if I told you, 'I just pulled a hammer out of the empty toolbox', you'd think I was insane.
That in itself is problemmatical enough, but it's even worse when you tell me that a 'Spirit' did it - when you base the claim on a 'Spirit'. On a what? Some seemingly insane notion invented by philosphers? A little common sense here, please. If God were an intangible spirit, what could He do? NOTHING! He couldn't even push a pencil, as it would slip through His hands. Nevermind trying to perform surgery on the sick. That too would be impossible.
I'm sorry you've bought into apparent insanity created by philosophers and perpetuated by them for 2,000 years.
It's SUPPOSED to give you a bad feeling. When all of society has been brainwashed IN ONE DIRECTION for 2,000 years, any deviation from it will naturally upset your stomach. I get that.
Exactly. Because it makes zero sense. It's total insanity. You want to keep believing that stuff? Fine. Just be be forthcoming/open/honest with others about the fact that you've elected to embrace apparent insanity contrary to all reason.
Matter is by its very nature eternal. Matter cannot be created or destroyed.
“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)
“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)
But only through the two outpourings or an apostle's hands. You need to balance your view with this fact.Those sciptures don't cancel the others that says the spirit gives as he determines.
But only through the two outpourings or an apostle's hands. You need to balance your view with this fact.
Who knows? All we have is scripture that many go beyond in their treachery.What were the two outpourings and why they stopped and why the holy spirit can't give outside of them? You have some short bible verses for that?
Who knows? All we have is scripture that many go beyond in their treachery.
You need to stick with scripture and not go beyond what it says. It tells us the gifts came through an apostle's hands and mentions no other way. Except the Two Outpourings.You have a link?
You need to stick with scripture and not go beyond what it says. It tells us the gifts came through an apostle's hands and mentions no other way. Except the Two Outpourings.
Many good books on "cessation" of the spiritual gifts exist. Also ripe debate on the Internet giving both sides of the issue.But i don't feel to read the whole nt just for this, and probably after reading it i would have a different conclusion, you don't have any material on this that you can share?
Many good books on "cessation" of the spiritual gifts exist. Also ripe debate on the Internet giving both sides of the issue.
Why not?Who says they spoke in tongues?
You come up with the craziest stuff.All believers since Abel had the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit thereof. They did not have the baptism with the Holy Spirit until Pentecost except for a few OT prophets.
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