Is 'Cessationism' the unpardonable sin?

[Yitzchak]

Sometimes in this forum it sure sounds like it. At the very least, it’s a four-letter word.

If you mean your question literally , then my answer is no. I don't think that the scripture passage which speaks of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is referring to the Theological camp within Christianity that thinks that tongues and the gifts of the Spirit have ceased in our time. To be accurate, those who believe in Cessation doctrines , do believe in the Holy Spirit and also do believe that the Holy Spirit is active in the life of a Christian. They are not engaged in a total rejection of the Holy Spirit.

I believe that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit means to reject God's salvation in which case there is no forgiveness for that person since they have rejected God and His salvation.

The scripture about the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was not intended to be leverage for bully tactics in sectarian bickering within the body of Christ.

If you mean your question to be metaphorically speaking and what you are asking is if it is very difficult or impossible to fellowship with someone who is a stalwart believer in Cessation doctrines. That can be true at times. I find that the nature of the issue makes it difficult to get along if the person is at the polar extreme.

 

[Frogster]

We quench the Spirit in ourselves, Frog. Cessationists have their own problems. Immorality is just as rampant in Charis-mania as in any other franchise of the kingdom. I think we would spend our time better in in cleaning up our own backyard as in complaining about our neighbor’s untidy front yard. Just sayin’.

yes, on the problem issue, i just meant that the spirit is not quenched as as far as gifts in charismatic churches, or at least in most.

 

[Frogster]

But you can use your “gifts” anywhere they are needed, not just at church. I have seen the sick healed at the Mall as well as just at church on Sunday morning and I have even cast out a devil in a bookstore and seen miracles occur in my place of business. To me, God’s gifts are to be used wherever they are needed; not just behind the walls of a church building. They are to help people and be a sign to unbelievers (who are in the marketplace and usually not at church), not just to provide weekend entertainment for the faithful (who happen to be in church).

i agree, just was thinking church life, because the average cessationist debate, is usually about church.

 

[Yitzchak]

But you can use your “gifts” anywhere they are needed, not just at church. I have seen the sick healed at the Mall as well as just at church on Sunday morning and I have even cast out a devil in a bookstore and seen miracles occur in my place of business. To me, God’s gifts are to be used wherever they are needed; not just behind the walls of a church building. They are to help people and be a sign to unbelievers (who are in the marketplace and usually not at church), not just to provide weekend entertainment for the faithful (who happen to be in church).

Your point is well taken that holding beliefs that we do not act upon is really not much better than not holding those beliefs. I can believe in divine healing but if it never results in a single person being healed in my entire life , than my belief system really is not of much value. In that case , why judge the guy who does not believe ?

On the other hand. if our beliefs are lived out , then it makes a world of difference whether or not I belief and whether or not someone does not believe in the gifts of the spirit.

Having spent the majority of my thirty years in church circles within the spirit filled segment of the church , I am somewhat skeptical that the majority of those who bear the title are actually spirit filled. As you point out , for many it is simply a theoretical position which they can argue about. But nevertheless , there are times when it makes a difference that a church or person is spirit filled.

 

[Messy]

Sometimes in this forum it sure sounds like it. At the very least, it’s a four-letter word.

I thought about it when I heard one woman say all the healing ministries are from the devil, but I think it isn't when you say it out of ignorance. The Pharisees willingly sinned.

 

[lismore]

To be accurate, those who believe in Cessation doctrines , do believe in the Holy Spirit and also do believe that the Holy Spirit is active in the life of a Christian. They are not engaged in a total rejection of the Holy Spirit.

That's interesting. They would still surely believe in prayer, the authority of scripture etc..............a lot of the Holy Spirit in these.

 

[jiminpa]

That's interesting. They would still surely believe in prayer, the authority of scripture etc..............a lot of the Holy Spirit in these.

I disagree. If they really believed in the authority of scripture they couldn't be cessationists. They give the authority of scripture lip service, but in reality they believe in the authority of the reformers.

They know that God stopped giving extra-Biblical revelation at the close of cannon because one of their idols had it revealed to him extra-Biblically after the close of cannon.

 

[JimB]

But for (many) Charismatics it appears that the new birth, redemption, sanctification, conviction of sin, spiritual guidance, intercession, indwelling, etc.etc.etc. are not enough. Unless the Holy Spirit gives more impressive crowd-pleasing gifts, like leg lengthening (or shortening?), gold dust falling from the ceiling, tooth fillings (but not new teeth?), holy laughter .... you know, entertainment, a good Sunday night show ... then they are dissatisfied. Some Charismatics discount and even dismiss the work the Holy Spirit is doing among Cessationists; they prefer the more entertaining ones.

 

[Messy]

But for (many) Charismatics it appears that the new birth, redemption, sanctification, conviction of sin, spiritual guidance, intercession, indwelling, etc.etc.etc. are not enough. Unless the Holy Spirit gives more impressive crowd-pleasing gifts, like leg lengthening (or shortening?), gold dust falling from the ceiling, tooth fillings (but not new teeth?), holy laughter .... you know, entertainment, a good Sunday night show ... then they are dissatisfied. Some Charismatics discount and even dismiss the work the Holy Spirit is doing among Cessationists; they prefer the more entertaining ones.

Who is they? I haven't met 'em yet.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Is 'Cessationism' the unpardonable sin?"

Nope - not even close.

"Cessationism", is really only a "Theological abstract" held by many denominational groups.

 

[Yitzchak]

But for (many) Charismatics it appears that the new birth, redemption, sanctification, conviction of sin, spiritual guidance, intercession, indwelling, etc.etc.etc. are not enough. Unless the Holy Spirit gives more impressive crowd-pleasing gifts, like leg lengthening (or shortening?), gold dust falling from the ceiling, tooth fillings (but not new teeth?), holy laughter .... you know, entertainment, a good Sunday night show ... then they are dissatisfied. Some Charismatics discount and even dismiss the work the Holy Spirit is doing among Cessationists; they prefer the more entertaining ones.

I find your post to be misleading concerning Charismatics. Nevertheless , I do think you also make a good point in saying that some Charismatics dismiss the work of the Holy Spirit in non Charismatic churches.

But I don't believe that many Charismatics are just looking for good entertainment and want the Holy Spirit to put on a good show. What Charismatics desrie to see in their relationship with the Holy Spirit and in their interactions with the Holy Spirit is much more than just entertainment. Your post runs the risk of discounting and even dismissing the work of the Holy Spirit within Charismatic circles.

 

[jiminpa]

Cessationism may not be the unpardonable sin, but it is a road to it. It's not a big step from clinging to the unbiblical belief that the gifts ended in the first century to calling the Holy Spirit a demon or His works demonic.

IDK, would calling a move of the Holy Spirit "fake" fall into the boundaries of blasphemy. That's not a game I would want to play with my salvation.

 

[Tobias]

I was always under the impression that it was necessary to correctly identify the Holy Spirit when we see Him at work. Peter's confession of faith was based upon something that "flesh and blood did not reveal this to you..."

If we cannot identify the Spirit of God when we see Him, do we really have a relationship with Him? Can I say that I'm in a relationship with my wife, if when I see her someplace away from home I deny knowing her and call her a prostitute?

This is what I see people doing with the H/S. They claim to know Him, but then turn around and call Him the Devil.

 

[Yitzchak]

I was always under the impression that it was necessary to correctly identify the Holy Spirit when we see Him at work. Peter's confession of faith was based upon something that "flesh and blood did not reveal this to you..."

If we cannot identify the Spirit of God when we see Him, do we really have a relationship with Him? Can I say that I'm in a relationship with my wife, if when I see her someplace away from home I deny knowing her and call her a prostitute?

This is what I see people doing with the H/S. They claim to know Him, but then turn around and call Him the Devil.

I think that one of the factors in what you are observing is the fact that people are being busybodies. God has not called us to go around the planet determining for several billion people whether or not each experience that they have is real or not. Where your analogy breaks down is because the Holy Spirit has a relationship with more people than you or I can possibly keep track of. I do agree with you though that there should eb a measure of discernment when we are in the actual presence of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Tobias]

I know I can't possibly tell for certain each and every situation where someone claims to have been led by the Holy Spirit. That is impossible for one man to do! So I have to accept the fact that most of the time, it is none of my business.

What we are dealing with here, are those who say that they can know the details of every situation, because of their wonderful doctrines. They believe that each time we claim to have felt the Spirit move, that it was indeed the Devil instead.

My question is, how is this any different than what the Pharisees did with Jesus? They held onto the scriptures tightly, yet were blinded by their traditions that compelled them to identify Him as a fraud. The entire Gospel as taught by the Apostles can be summed up in these few words: "Believe in Jesus." Which is exactly what the Pharisees failed to do!

Why must we believe in Jesus? What must we believe about Him? A bunch of theological details about his human life? Or like the test the Pharisees failed, are we supposed to pick the reality of the Presence of God when He is in our midst, over our doctrines which cause us to misunderstand the scriptures?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Cessationism may not be the unpardonable sin, but it is a road to it."

Disagree -

150 years ago the orthodox church AS A WHOLE was Cessationist. and the REALITY of the spiritual Gifts still in action in 2013 is a development in the last century and a half or so. It got SERIOUSLY launched in the beginning of the 20th century, and reinforced/corrected in 1966 when the Charismatic outpouring rolled on through.

And the simple FACT is that "Full Gospel" folks tend to make it REALLY EASY for folks the think they're fools with good reason. Turn on "Christian Confusion" TV sometime, and watch the utter confusion that's there!!!

Paul had to caution people NOT TO "Despise Prophesying", and any of us who've been arounf Pentecostal Churches for very long know EXACTLY WHY - don't we!!!?

People are ignorant, and emotion driven, and PARTICULARLY if they're "religious", they'll say all sorts of STUPID stuff that they THINK is "Biblical", based on the bad teaching they've received from equally ignorant denominational sources.

It would be my opinion that one would have to KNOW that they were dealing with a "Holy Spirit" phenomenon, and deliberately speak against it/Him before they'd be in the "Blasphemy" situation.