Is 'Cessationism' the unpardonable sin?

[JimB]

Sometimes in this forum it sure sounds like it. At the very least, it’s a four-letter word.

 

[Frogster]

well...to neuter the Spirit, limit his power, and to take away our inheritance of the Spirit, Gal 3:14, and the gifts manifested in 3:5, sure comes close.

 

[JimB]

well...to neuter the Spirit, limit his power, and to take away our inheritance of the Spirit, Gal 3:14, and the gifts manifested in 3:5, sure comes close.

Neuter the Spirit and limit his power? Can humans really do that? You’re joking, right? And nobody has taken a nickel from my inheritance. If I have power I can use it, with or without the permission of anyone. I still say the best argument for spiritual power is just to use it, not argue about it. If you say Christians can heal the sick today, then heal the sick; but don’t lecture someone about how you can heal people. Just do it. And that will shut the mouth of lions.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Sometimes in this forum it sure sounds like it. At the very least, it’s a four-letter word.

What is Cessationism? A giving up or giving in on everything?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Oh, nevermind, I just saw lismores thread. Cessationism is a belief that the gifts of the Spirit ceased after the early Church. I odviously don't agree with it but it most certainly isn't a sin at all. I don't remember but to post in this sub-forum aren't we supposed to believe that the gifts are still for anyone today who wishes to seek them? That would seem to go against the belief in cessationism.

 

[Biblicist]

Sometimes in this forum it sure sounds like it. At the very least, it’s a four-letter word.

For most people it seems that they are merely cessationist not so much by a conscious choice but simply as they have the misfortune of belonging to a denomination or congregation that for whatever reason appears to be afraid of the Spirit of God. Even though we are supposed to be a part of the Information Age where virtually anyone within a developed country can easily access the best information, which includes the best contemporary theological resources, one can probably ask, if this information is so easily accessible then why are some people seemingly content to walk within a world view that now belongs to a past age – cessationism is simply a dinosaur that is best left as a philosophical curiosity.

Professor Jon Ruthven made the following remark in 2000; [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

“Until recently, as in Augustine’s time, most Christians in the West have been conditioned, even by church leaders, to disbelieve and discount any contemporary miracle stories. Now, with the advent of primarily charismatic television ministries and a knee-jerk reaction against the sterile enlightenment rationalism that has dominated Western thought, many more Americans are believing in the power of God”.
​

[FONT=&quot]http://www.pneumafoundation.org/resources/articles/answers02.pdf[/FONT]​

On the other hand, I would not really want to be in the shoes of an aggressive cessationist, they’re the ones who proudly declare their allegiance to the cessationist world view, which one academic referred to as being “another system of unbelief”. It’s hard to be overly critical with the average rank-and-file cessationist as many are probably less than Biblically astute so they are like many, in that they are simply prepared to believe what their leaders dish out to them, but, when it comes to the aggressive cessationist then their eternal fate can only be left to the purposes of God.

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

Sometimes in this forum it sure sounds like it. At the very least, it’s a four-letter word.

Well...

Someone in the Presbyterian forum accused me of consorting with the demonic several weeks ago for saying I am charismatic. Another cessationist came along and pointed out the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit verse warning the poster what they might potentially be doing by making such an accusation.

Not saying the one making the accusations toward me rose to that level, but the one who defended me did make a valid point.

 

[Biblicist]

Neuter the Spirit and limit his power? Can humans really do that? You’re joking, right? And nobody has taken a nickel from my inheritance. If I have power I can use it, with or without the permission of anyone. I still say the best argument for spiritual power is just to use it, not argue about it. If you say Christians can heal the sick today, then heal the sick; but don’t lecture someone about how you can heal people. Just do it. And that will shut the mouth of lions.

The problem here Jim is that many cessationists will respond to someones declaration that they were healed through prayer by saying that it was a fluke in that God sovereignly chose to do so, we had no part in it. If we cannot demonstrate from God's Word that we are able to seek for our healing and that the Scriptures have provided a mechanism for this healing, then they will simply ignore such a testimony. Undoubtedly the hard-core cessationist will reject a testimonial along with God's Word if it doesn't fit into their world view.

 

[Frogster]

Neuter the Spirit and limit his power? Can humans really do that? You’re joking, right? And nobody has taken a nickel from my inheritance. If I have power I can use it, with or without the permission of anyone. I still say the best argument for spiritual power is just to use it, not argue about it. If you say Christians can heal the sick today, then heal the sick; but don’t lecture someone about how you can heal people. Just do it. And that will shut the mouth of lions.

it says we can grieve or quench, like a fire extinguisher, the Spirit, and we have all seen people stop the functioning of gifts, despise not prophecy etc...

why does the Spirit function more in charismatic churches, as far as gifts?

could it be he is not welcome in other churches?

indeed, the old saying, he is a gentleman stands.

 

[Frogster]

Neuter the Spirit and limit his power? Can humans really do that? You’re joking, right? And nobody has taken a nickel from my inheritance. If I have power I can use it, with or without the permission of anyone. I still say the best argument for spiritual power is just to use it, not argue about it. If you say Christians can heal the sick today, then heal the sick; but don’t lecture someone about how you can heal people. Just do it. And that will shut the mouth of lions.

the gifts are part of out inheritance, and if a church does not allow you to use them, that is taking from you, Him, and others, hence, your inheritance is robbed.

 

[jiminpa]

For most people it seems that they are merely cessationist not so much by a conscious choice but simply as they have the misfortune of belonging to a denomination or congregation that for whatever reason appears to be afraid of the Spirit of God. Even though we are supposed to be a part of the Information Age where virtually anyone within a developed country can easily access the best information, which includes the best contemporary theological resources, one can probably ask, if this information is so easily accessible then why are some people seemingly content to walk within a world view that now belongs to a past age – cessationism is simply a dinosaur that is best left as a philosophical curiosity.

Professor Jon Ruthven made the following remark in 2000; [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

“Until recently, as in Augustine’s time, most Christians in the West have been conditioned, even by church leaders, to disbelieve and discount any contemporary miracle stories. Now, with the advent of primarily charismatic television ministries and a knee-jerk reaction against the sterile enlightenment rationalism that has dominated Western thought, many more Americans are believing in the power of God”.
​

[FONT=&quot]http://www.pneumafoundation.org/resources/articles/answers02.pdf[/FONT]​

On the other hand, I would not really want to be in the shoes of an aggressive cessationist, they’re the ones who proudly declare their allegiance to the cessationist world view, which one academic referred to as being “another system of unbelief”. It’s hard to be overly critical with the average rank-and-file cessationist as many are probably less than Biblically astute so they are like many, in that they are simply prepared to believe what their leaders dish out to them, but, when it comes to the aggressive cessationist then their eternal fate can only be left to the purposes of God.

It doesn't take the information age to refute cessationism, just a Bible. At some point, usually about 4 verses into the argument, they are relegated to quoting some guy, often the preferred blasphemer of this forum, against the Bible.

 

[Optimus Fortis]

Well...

Someone in the Presbyterian forum accused me of consorting with the demonic several weeks ago for saying I am charismatic. Another cessationist came along and pointed out the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit verse warning the poster what they might potentially be doing by making such an accusation.

Not saying the one making the accusations toward me rose to that level, but the one who defended me did make a valid point.

Well Jesus was accused of consorting with Beelzebub by the Pharisees of His day.

 

[Optimus Fortis]

It doesn't take the information age to refute cessationism, just a Bible. At some point, usually about 4 verses into the argument, they are relegated to quoting some guy, often the preferred blasphemer of this forum, against the Bible.

I would say that two cessationist Protestant denominations in particular are very skilful in apologetics both as Christians to unbelievers and to other Christians.

I think the reason for this is that once the become Christians, what is there to do? Every Sunday, the sermons centre around the need to be saved to a church full of the saved. During the week, Bible studies are more like doctrine studies but there is very little practical Christianity from witness work and the signs that are supposed to follow those who believe. I think this is why the more zealous become really good at being Christian barristers - there is little else for them to do without the Holy Spirit!

 

[Biblicist]

It doesn't take the information age to refute cessationism, just a Bible. At some point, usually about 4 verses into the argument, they are relegated to quoting some guy, often the preferred blasphemer of this forum, against the Bible.

That's certainly true as anyone should be able to gain a good understanding of the role of the Holy Spirit within the life of the believer; but, for some people it could be that their congregation/denomination has in some way kept the keys away from them and it make take an online article or a book to make them realise that they have been given the short stick by their congregation.

 

[JimB]

It doesn't take the information age to refute cessationism, just a Bible. At some point, usually about 4 verses into the argument, they are relegated to quoting some guy, often the preferred blasphemer of this forum, against the Bible.

It's going to take a whole lot more than our Pentecostal interpretation of the Bible, Jim. Personally, I am not as put off by Cessationists as I am by our own all-too-frequent high-profile, Charismaniac scandals and our readiness to rush to defend immoral behavior. Maybe if we spent more time sweeping the dirt from under our own rug, and living the ethics of the Bible, rather than trying to clean-up someone else’s house, we would be taken more seriously. At the very least we would hand our critics less ammunition to fire back at us. And maybe if we’d start doing the things we say we can do—like heal the sick, move mountains, and raise the dead—instead of just talking about it, our arguments would have more weight. Didn’t James say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by how I live” (James 2.18). Until we do that, I can hardly blame anyone for laughing at us. Our posturing and proof-texts will always fall on deaf ears.

 

[JimB]

it says we can grieve or quench, like a fire extinguisher, the Spirit, and we have all seen people stop the functioning of gifts, despise not prophecy etc...

why does the Spirit function more in charismatic churches, as far as gifts?

could it be he is not welcome in other churches?

indeed, the old saying, he is a gentleman stands.

We quench the Spirit in ourselves, Frog. Cessationists have their own problems. Immorality is just as rampant in Charis-mania as in any other franchise of the kingdom. I think we would spend our time better in in cleaning up our own backyard as in complaining about our neighbor’s untidy front yard. Just sayin’.

 

[JimB]

the gifts are part of out inheritance, and if a church does not allow you to use them, that is taking from you, Him, and others, hence, your inheritance is robbed.

But you can use your “gifts” anywhere they are needed, not just at church. I have seen the sick healed at the Mall as well as just at church on Sunday morning and I have even cast out a devil in a bookstore and seen miracles occur in my place of business. To me, God’s gifts are to be used wherever they are needed; not just behind the walls of a church building. They are to help people and be a sign to unbelievers (who are in the marketplace and usually not at church), not just to provide weekend entertainment for the faithful (who happen to be in church).

 

[Hishandmaiden]

God's spirit is still moving in this world. It is a sin to think that God's spirit no longer grants gifts like speaking in tongues, healing etc in the church. Yet, it is not the unpardonable sin. It is simply just a sin.

After-all, it is not the gifts of God that brings someone to heaven. Rather, it is the faith in Jesus that saves a person. So, if a person don't believe that the holy spirit is still moving today, but believe in Jesus, he or she will still be saved. Yet, he or she will be limited in his or her power and live a more defeated life than if he or she has believed in the gifts of the holy spirit.

 

[JimB]

God's spirit is still moving in this world. It is a sin to think that God's spirit no longer grants gifts like speaking in tongues, healing etc in the church. Yet, it is not the unpardonable sin. It is simply just a sin.

*****

Sure it’s a sin, but then so is judging your brother or sister to be less than you (you know, Half- instead of Full-Gospel) because they do not share your beliefs in miracles. We are all sinners. Some of us are saved sinners, but unfortunately, we all are guilty of committing some transgression or another almost daily.

 

[BenAdam]

Sure it’s a sin, but then so is judging your brother or sister to be less than you (you know, Half- instead of Full-Gospel) because they do not share your beliefs in miracles. We are all sinners. Some of us are saved sinners, but unfortunately, we all are guilty of committing some transgression or another almost daily.

It isn't necessarily judgment. If a friend of yours was malnourished because they didn't eat enough or ate the wrong things and you encouraged them to eat a balanced (or whole) diet, that would be concern for their health.