is casting lots okay?

[Gxg (G²)]

Agreed. They cast lots for Matthias, but not once do we see them doing so after Pentecost. .

Thankfully, with casting lots, they wouldn't have to do so again after Pentecost, as casting lots was never what God commanded all believers to do when it came to discerning his will..aand the Lord opened up more diverse ways for people to hear/see him. Moreover, as said before from John 20:20, Pentecost was not really for them since they were already given the Spirt. They could have easily asked the Lord to speak to all of them on the decision in a dream. But they chose the option of lots. Trying to infer that lots are not allowed (or accepted) due to it not being mentioned often is akin to what many who are cessationists try to do in saying the Lord doesn't speak through dreams/visions because they don't see dreams mentioned often in the NT after Acts 2:16-18 (except with Ananais in Acts 9)---and if its mentioned that something occurrred, the logic is that it still doesn't make an expression of discerning God's Will valid since it didn't happen as often as another. Of course, for those around the world experiencing otherwise when it comes to dreams being things the Lord uses to give guidance in line with the Word, the discussion seems to be misdirected---and the same goes for casting lots, in light of how many times others prayed via that method and asked the Holy Spirit to guide them---with their decisions being blessed.

If others wish to focus in on lots as not being a way to follow the Spirit, they by default have to place other categories into the mix such as prayer, asking for advice or confirmations just as the disciples did. For casting lots was the normal way of discerning the Will of God and was overshadowed by other ways the Spirit expressed itself--but there's nothing in scripture saying it is not a VALID way of seeking the Lord. Rather, it is simply one way that is less prominent than others...and if others have seen the SPirit of God use lots to guide them, that's between them and the Lord rather than others.

Personally, if I do not hear from God on a particular issue, I count it a blessing- He is helping me grow.

Glad to know, as I've done the same thing numerous times as well....and in seeking the Lord, he may not always answer as we'd prefer. Sometimes, the answers become more clear as he opens up doors in differing directions or gives more insight.

I take it to mean that I should assess the matter based on my values (which are formed by the Word and Spirit) and go ahead and make a decision- God will bless what I turn my hand to if it is in His will, and will close the door if it is not. All is well either way

Amen.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

We have prayed over this matter ferventally and we are not strangers to fasting. Discernment has never really been much of a stuggle for my wife and I before, we wrestled with everything a lot, the lots thing was out of desperation.

Yes we were at the point where we were totally unable to decide which way to go. Not I will not blame God if it doesn't work out, but I would assume if he allowed me to go ahead with it he would be at least teaching me a lesson.

certainly many have and would abuse lots which is why I was hesitant to do it myself. I don't see us using them anytime in the near future, but I felt this was the time and place.

I did cast lots with 3 quarters, all heads was a yes, all tails was a no and anything other then that I assumed I should not be asking or would receive no answer. I prayed while I casted and they started dropping out of my hand as I shook them, I was not deciding when to let them go. I must admit while I hoped God might answer me in this was I was quite surprised to receive a result of 3 heads. I doubted myself and picked them up and tried to explain the casting lots thing to my wife as I played with them in my hand... two more continued to fall... heads. This morning I doubted whether it was God answering or my mind playing tricks, God has been tasting my faith the last few months about how I believe I hear from him. I decided to try one more time and asked prayerfully and again 3 heads. I feel like the answer was made clear.

I don't really advocate casting lots 99.9999% of the time, but I felt like this time it was okay because at this point we felt so strongly that this house should be ours, but the seller was being quite tough with us. We are at the point where we have to take a step of faith either way. 1. That God was moving us to buy this house despite our concerns and to trust him, or 2. That God was moving us to walk away from it because he has something else in mind. It has been a very hard process and we have put the whole thing on the alter, we have left to my knowledge no motive or concern of ours left unchecked. It has been my experience that sometimes God is clear, sometimes he is not. When he is not clear often I have discovered the choice doesn't matter much, but this was such a risky think either way we felt a bit paralyzed. At this point we are going ahead with it, we shall see once we do the house inspection. We still believe that if it is not God's will that he will do something to remove it from our options and right now we are teetering on the edge.

Awesome testimony...and thank you for sharing it, as its always amazing when the same thing that has occurred for many others seeking the Lord always comes back up again in the same way. God is a Good God!!!!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I would rather have a "in the mind only" prayer where I ask the Lord to send me someone to say a certain thing one way or another that only the Lord, who can hear my mind think, could have known what I asked for... as confirmation. IT is amazing what happens. The reason I do not say it out loud is because it become open to evil angels to mess with. I make sure it is a strange statement that even an evil angel could not have second guessed it.

That's a great example of something one can consider when it comes to looking for confirmatio..though sometimes, things within that realm can often seem like Déjà vu. One sermon I heard of, called "Glimpses of Eternity", sought to go about and demystify the whole experience of Deja Vu. Using a biblical viewpoint, the pastor giving the sermon ( Rev. Kong Hee ) explained that men are products of God's eternal nature, positioned in eternity's parenthesis called "time". Thus, cccasionally we catch a glimpse of the future when we experience a Deja Vu moment.

 

[ContraMundum]

They wouldn't have to, as casting lots was never what God commanded all believers to do when it came to discerning his will..and as said before from John 20:20, Pentecost was not really for them since they were already given the Spirt. They could have easily asked the Lord to speak to all of them on the decision in a dream. But they chose the option of lots. Trying to infer that lots are not allowed (or accepted) due to it not being mentioned often is akin to what many who are cessationists try to do in saying the Lord doesn't speak through dreams/visions because they don't see dreams mentioned often in the NT after Acts 2:16-18 (except with Ananais in Acts 9)---and if its mentioned that something occurrred, the logic is that it still doesn't make an expression of discerning God's Will valid since it didn't happen as often as another. Of course, for those around the world experiencing otherwise when it comes to dreams being things the Lord uses to give guidance in line with the Word, the discussion seems to be misdirected---and the same goes for casting lots, in light of how many times others prayed via that method and asked the Holy Spirit to guide them---with their decisions being blessed.

Well, we've now moved into soteriology and pneumatology. I agree that the Spirit was given to the twelve in some degree before Pentecost- at their commissioning (John 20) but the evidence suggests that at Pentecost a new and greater measure was given- hence, from that point on, they are guided by the Spirit directly, as is testified over and over in the book of Acts.

Personally, I would never cast lots. The Bible teaches us that we can be led of God by the Spirit. Likewise, a good foundation in the Word will help you make your earthly decisions based on the clear guidance of the Bible. eg. I know it is a good thing to give my neighbor help if they need it. God will bless a mitzvah like this every time, as it is in His general revealed will. As for wanting to know what color jacket to buy or what to have for dinner- or even where to live- most of this God in His sovereign will leaves up to us.

However, if someone else feels the need to cast lots, that is their walk. I do not think it is a sin, but I also think God wants us to exercise our spiritual gifts which help us hear His voice.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Well, we've now moved into soteriology and pneumatology. .

Wouldn't say that a move into those realms occurred "now" as much as it is more explictly focused upon. We have many of these same kind of discussions at my fellowship--and in being a Youth Worker/Leader at the church, it's amazing to see some of the things that are always present and in the back of the mind by others who raise the same questions

I agree that the Spirit was given to the twelve in some degree before Pentecost- at their commissioning (John 20) but the evidence suggests that at Pentecost a new and greater measure was given- hence, from that point on, they are guided by the Spirit directly, as is testified over and over in the book of Acts.

I agree that the Spirit was given in a New Way at Acts.and thus, within the Book of Acts, the focus is upon the many ways in which the Spirit chose to operate in the newer ways. Nonetheless, I'd also say that trying to focus in on that/say that the way the Spirit moved in Acts /the Epistles is the ONLY way the Spirit can do things may miss the point of Acts since the author didn't go into the book trying to document all possible ways of how the Spirit moved.

In a practical example, in Youth Ministry, I've often been very saddened for those individuals who often hear I Corinthians 12 or Romans 12 discussed with the gifts...and then hear sermons on how those gifts played out in Acts. For some (as it was for myself as well growing up), they may not have the gift of wisdom or prophecy---and they may love the arts, but they'll always feel that there's no place for them. My cousin and I loved doing artwork and he's actually an Art Major now---one who was amazingly gifted...and I'd often wonder if the NT would make room for that gift. Others would say "Well, its nice what others do in art--but its not really a gift of the Spirit or something he uses in Acts." That said, I was shocked when I was able to see this:

Then Moses said to the Israelites, “See, the Lord has called by name Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah. He has filled him with the Spirit of God—with skill, with understanding, with knowledge, and with all kinds of work, to design artistic designs, to work in gold, in silver, and in bronze, and in cutting stones for their setting, and in cutting wood, to do work in every artistic craft (Exod 35:30-33).
​

Exodus 31:2-4 also discusses the same theme. And on the issue, It amazed me to see how the Lord already had the Spirit of God use others in the realm of art----and for those who are bent toward that direction, it is a big deal. The widsom of Bezaleel and Aholiab is skill in supervising and teaching others how to do things, as well as being able to do intricate, artistic things themselves. Another way of putting it would be "strength of capacity" or even "expansion of their minds." In addition, God gave them understanding, which means "discernment" In this context of building the Tabernacle, it would mean being able to arrange or connect all the different parts. God also increased their knowledge, which means "a particular acquaintance."

​

The very God who formed the world, who brought order out of chaos at creation, also filled men like Bezalel (not a New Testament Christian, but an Old Testament believer) to produce works of art...and for others who had that gifting, they don't have to feel as if the Lord cannot use that for His glory. It's why there is now an entire ministry developed called "Prophetic Art" where others will draw during worship services and use their art to glorify the Messiah. For an example of one of my brothers in the Lord whom I met and who does this for a living, one can go here to investigate the ministry of William Butler. Additionally, some of this I preached on at my church--as seen here in HEROES: Rebels

That said, if others were to look SOLELY to Acts for ways that the Spirit of the Lord operated, they'd be doing damage. The same dynamic that occurs with the Spirit of God being shown more extensively outside of Acts with the ARTS is also seen in other gifts...such as those who went to battle. As the scriptures declear, "And the Spirit of Yahweh came upon him, and he judged Israel" (Judges 3:10). So also Gideon (Judges 6:34): "The Spirit of Yahweh came upon (literally, clothed itself with) Gideon." In Judges 11:29 "the spirit of Yahweh came upon Jephthah"; and in Judges 13:25 "the Spirit of Yahweh began to move" Samson. In Judges 14:6 "the Spirit of Yahweh came mightily upon him." In all this class of passages, the Spirit imparted special endowments of power without necessary reference to the moral character of the recipient....and he enabled them to do physical feats of battle that were unheard of. Just because this occurred in the OT doesn't mean that it not being mentioned often (except in the final part of Hebrews 11) is a sign that the Spirit does not operate as such with others today.

The same dynamic occurs with the casting of lots, as just because it's not mentioned as often as other methods doesn't mean that the Spirit doesn't like it or that He either DIDN'T do it at all in the history of the Early Church (as we don't even have all the information in all points and Acts is a Highlight of main events rather than discussing every discussion/detail the believers had on every issue).

Personally, I would never cast lots. The Bible teaches us that we can be led of God by the Spirit. Likewise, a good foundation in the Word will help you make your earthly decisions based on the clear guidance of the Bible. eg. I know it is a good thing to give my neighbor help if they need it. God will bless a mitzvah like this every time, as it is in His general revealed will. As for wanting to know what color jacket to buy or what to have for dinner- or even where to live- most of this God in His sovereign will leaves up to us.

That I can understand and agree with. The only point I'd like to mention is that there's nothing wrong with inviting the Holy Spirit to be involved in our daily lives on all levels. Was once told by an elder/ spiritual mother in the Lord that it makes a difference asking the Holy Spirit to go shopping with you since she always seems to find the right kind of deals---and this is in light of how much wisdom she already has/seeks to utilize practically. Did the same ever since...and I've been amazed at how many times I will find things others wonder "How did you get that and where?" Sometimes, when changing and seeing I only have a select amount of clothing styles, it has been a blessing having the Lord show how it only takes a little bit for him to give an entire range of stylish dresses one can have....and no one notice it's essentially the same kind of clothes rather than always buying new ones

However, if someone else feels the need to cast lots, that is their walk. I do not think it is a sin, but I also think God wants us to exercise our spiritual gifts which help us hear His voice

I agree. Thanks for noting such

 

[ContraMundum]

Well said Easy!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

At this point we are going ahead with it, we shall see once we do the house inspection. We still believe that if it is not God's will that he will do something to remove it from our options and right now we are teetering on the edge.

Praying that you've gotten more clarification in your decision, as I was curious as to how it was going and if everything turned out well with your decision to move forward with the home--or if the Lord decided to close the doors....which is not bad thankfully since there are times the Lord may call someone to go forward in something and then shut it since it was merely a test of obediance/seeing if one would be willing to do it if He asked (like ABraham and Issac in Genesis 22 where the Lord asked him to sacrifice his son but later told him to stop since he wanted to test him). And thankfully, any doors that may be shut are simply signs that there are other doors He has opened.

Regardless of what your outcome is, praying with ya that the Lord would open the doors he wants for you and that His Gospel would be seen in your lives ( 1 Corinthians 16:8-10 , Corinthians 2:11-13 , Colossians 4:2-4 , Revelation 3:7-9 , etc) . Shalom

 

[Pinchme]

I don't think so, my friend. We are to be led by the Spirit. If you need confirmation about something from God, you can't go past prayer and fasting.

I agree on the point of casting lots;

Sorry but I disagree on other. Because only the Bible and the words therein will lead one to instruction. Fasting and prayer are for spiritual cleansing as long as it is done from the heart. Many every day start thier prayers with "I".

Jesus,
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name..................
But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

This same prayer is cleansing.

 

[Pinchme]

So ill put the horse before the cart and answer your question first before it arrives

Or would it be better had I lied and Jesus really says, when thine fast, wash not the face, nor do not anointe thine head with oil, so that the inside and the outside match not"?

Remember Jesus says, No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

Cant wash the inside and not the outside. Both are new so treat them as such. "Dog wont hunt"

 

[Pinchme]

And what I like about God and Jesus sayings is you can read one sentence both ways and they mean the same. No man can do that.

Jesus says, No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

OR:

The old aggreeth not with the new, if the piece taken out of a new is rent; otherwise, is old and not new, says Jesus.

As he told the Pharisees, Woe to ye, You wash the outside only and maketh it appear new.

See do that with another ordinary mans words. "dog wont hunt"

 

[Gxg (G²)]

God wants us to exercise our spiritual gifts which help us hear His voice.

Thankful for the gifts He gives to each of his children so we can all learn/benefit from one another in truly coming to know Him more