Is Calvinism Just?

[BNR32FAN]

< shrugs > one interesting hit >> searching "saved without love" >>>

Commentary on 1&2 Peter, 1,2,3 John, Jude: Bible Study Notes ...

https://books.google.com › books
David Pratte - 2019 - ‎Religion
Once again this demonstrates that we cannot be saved without obeying commands, for if we could then we would be saved without love! To claim we can love ...

Commentary? I can’t read this page on my phone because it won’t allow me to zoom in on the text. How about a simple yes or no?

 

[renniks]

What happens if you decide not to believe?

Nothing. This is reinforced over and over in scripture, that salvation starts with belief. It's not really debatable to any Biblical literate person.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's correct. However, what I had taken issue with were these two claims:

1. That Calvinism teaches that God acts unjustly, and

2. That Calvinism teaches that God makes his choices arbitrarily.

Both of those are incorrect statements.

So then God elects everyone who will choose to repent and endure to the end?

 

[renniks]

Ok. Faith is the result of being regenerated

No, regeneration is preceded by faith. "What must I do to be saved?" You know the answer. It's not "Don't worry about it, if God wants you to be saved, he will give you faith." It is: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."

 

[BNR32FAN]

I've used nearly the same wording in the past because that's exactly what it is, dishonest means to discredit, and as I've also said over and over again, it takes deception to defend deception.

Same principle as it takes more lies to cover a lie.

This is just the result of people not wanting to accept the truth and in most cases putting their own personal pride ahead of admitting their mistakes. I surely wasn’t born with my knowledge of the scriptures and made a lot of mistakes along the way. I’m sure I’ll make a lot more in the future. Hopefully less than before tho lol.

 

[Dave L]

Nothing. This is reinforced over and over in scripture, that salvation starts with belief. It's not really debatable to any Biblical literate person.

= you are the savior. In Calvinism you are spiritually dead and thinkt the gospel is foolishness. From out of this state God resurrects your dead spirit in the new birth so you can grasp spiritual things. Only then can you believe the gospel and long for holiness.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The very fact that you believe salvation is not all of grace.

So if someone is given grace they don’t need to believe?

 

[BNR32FAN]

What happens if you decide not to believe?

Then you will be broken off from the “Olive Tree” (God’s Covenant) as per Romans 11:17-23

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So if someone is given grace they don’t need to believe?

No one needs to believe. God is gracious even to the wicked. But they perish without hope if they don't believe(/have faith).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Commentary? I can’t read this page on my phone because it won’t allow me to zoom in on the text. How about a simple yes or no?

Yes or not to what question ?
The "page" is in google books, and I can read a little of it but cannot copy it to quote it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You have not answered my questions. I asked you the election questions because your comments continue to assert that God does not Sovereignly elect His people. God Sovereignly electing His people is actually Biblical and yet you have not addressed it, but instead ask a different question.

I’m sorry being at work it’s hard to see every post perhaps I missed your question. I have addressed this in post 574

 

[Dave L]

Then you will be broken off from the “Olive Tree” (God’s Covenant) as per Romans 11:17-23

So you save yourself by meeting conditions = works.

 

[Call me Nic]

So you save yourself by meeting conditions = works.

Paul the apostle compares works against faith. Faith is not works.

 

[Dave L]

Paul the apostle compares works against faith. Faith is not works.

But faith is a gift. Not a work of the flesh.

 

[BNR32FAN]

= you are the savior. In Calvinism you are spiritually dead and thinkt the gospel is foolishness. From out of this state God resurrects your dead spirit in the new birth so you can grasp spiritual things. Only then can you believe the gospel and long for holiness.

Even then a person can still reject the gospel and turn to unbelief.

 

[Dave L]

Even then a person can’t still reject the gospel and turn to unbelief.

The don't want to and would rather die first.

 

[Call me Nic]

= you are the savior. In Calvinism you are spiritually dead and thinkt the gospel is foolishness. From out of this state God resurrects your dead spirit in the new birth so you can grasp spiritual things. Only then can you believe the gospel and long for holiness.

In Calvinism a person is saved before they ever even hear the gospel, thus rendering the gospel of Christ pointless.

Yet the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16). A person can only be saved after hearing and believing the gospel (Romans 10:17, Ephesians 1:13).

 

[renniks]

you are the savior

That's absurd. Believing does not make you your own savior.

What must I do to be saved? What is the scriptural answer? Believe on the Lord Jesus.
Nothing in there about God believing for you.

 

[Call me Nic]

But faith is a gift. Not a work of the flesh.

Faith is also shown as a choice to be made in scripture when Thomas refused to believe unless Christ showed himself to him personally.

John 20:25 says, "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

Although Thomas' faith was dependent upon him physically seeing the risen Lord, nonetheless he made the statement and decision to not believe until Christ had appeared to him.

 

[Dave L]

In Calvinism a person is saved before they ever even hear the gospel, thus rendering the gospel of Christ pointless.

Yet the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16). A person can only be saved after hearing and believing the gospel (Romans 10:17, Ephesians 1:13).

You believe because God saved you. He doesn't save anyone because they choose to believe.