Please explain how it is not fair
A God who selectively decides who is saved and who is not is not fair by all human concepts of fairness and such a defined God will deter some people, myself included from pursuing Him that is not a God who loved the whole world Joh 3:16 or who wants everyone saved 1 Tim 2:4.
Your argument is based on a single verse selected from the entire Bible (
Acts 17:29)? That's very shaky ground, to put it nicely.
Paul was not saying that all human beings actually are God's offspring. The context of that sentence was established in the preceding sentence. After having said that "in him we live and move and have our being," Paul pointed out that this kind of idea is even reflected in some of their own poets when they say things like, "For we too are his offspring" (referring to the Greek poet Aratus and his hexameter poem
Phenomena). So, in 21st century vernacular, Paul was essentially saying, "Even your view, wherein we are God's offspring, suggests that we shouldn't think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone." Paul was making a case for the universal recognition of a general relationship and accountability to the one true God for all humanity. He is very clear throughout his other epistles who the children of God are—and it's not "everybody."
No its not I provide 13 passages in message 100 that confirm this stance as does Acts 17:28 too so the whole of Acts 17 really. These are Paul's words. the preceding text is defining God so the 'Him' of Acts 17:28 can only be God in Paul's own words. In effect he is just saying even your own old 'poets' knew it too. the use of 'offspring' does, I believe, have very deep meaning about the origin of man's base spirit.
For in him- the whole previous text is about God so this 'Him' must be too
we live-we have an existence, a life
and move, we move around
and have our being-we are a being, an existing creature no just a forethought;
as certain also of your own poets have said, a time frame is set and it is before Christ's arrival on earth, ruling out this referring to 'one body' in Christ or other in-dwelling 'relationships'
For we are also his offspring- this all because we are his offspring
Of course once this is established Calvinism dies because God' foreknew' everybody
No, it does not. It says that God wants "all people" to be saved. What does Paul mean by "all people" here? He explains that in the first two verses. Again, Paul was basically telling Timothy, "Prayers are to be offered on behalf of all people, by which I mean don't forget about kings and other people in authority. They are part of ‘all people’. God wants all people to be saved, Timothy—as hard as it is to believe, that includes people in the ruling class."
If you are still confused, then I suspect it's because you are letting preconceived ideas color your reading of this passage. When allowed to speak on its own, it is very concise and clear
Ah now I get where you are coming from , I was confused by you logic which i think is flawed,
1.I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2.For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3.For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4.Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth
firstly,the text uses 'all men' and anyway I think 'everyone'. 'all men' and 'all people' are synonymous in the English anyway. You seem to be reasoning that because God uses the term 'all men' AND then defined even 'Kings and all that are in authority'(K&A) that this then renders 'all men' as a kind of 'adjective' for
'people who it is hard to believe God would call'.
I feel strongly that it does not mean this.
'All men' means all men. The K&A are just a subset of all men, God emphasizing it is all men even these K&A. The next verse is not referring to all men as an 'adjective' of
'men you would not think would be saved' but is back with 'all men'.
So God wants all men to be saved so why did He not predestinate all men to be saved then? Or did He predstinate all men to have a chance of ' being conformed in the image of Christ '. '
Predestinate to be conformed' not '
predestinated conformed' , there is a difference.
The text does not seem to allow either "coincident with" or "just after," for Jesus said that these given ones "will" come (not "are" coming, nor "did" come). And is there any meaningful difference between the Father giving them to the Son just before versus long before? If so, please explain it
I like this answer a lot It did give me much food for thought, i has asked Dialectic when God gave mankind to Jesus, I suggested it was at the time of salvation- or just after and I believe Calvinism says it is at the time of predestination.
I stand by my suggestion,
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out
i suggest the clue to what this means and when it happens is
'I will no wise cast out'. I suggest, this must be talking about the mysterious 'body of Christ' If we can be cast out, it is not in us but in God. this is not the in-dwellings within us, we cannot be cast out of ourselves. so my timeline hypothesis holds-God gives us to Jesus after His Holy Spirit has worked on us and handles all of our indwelling salvation 'moment', we then 'after that' we come to Jesus Himself-the body of Christ.
My apologies but I simply couldn't decipher what you were asking there. Could you repeat your question in a different way, please?
-- DialecticSkeptic
Oops! I put an extra 'will'in it; Here it is again corrected , you suggest that it is my
'regenerated will' that leads me to make a decision for Christ, do you have any scripture that backs up this claim i.e
before salvation my will is regenerated?