Is believing/faith a work ?

[Doug Brents]

If we condition Salvation/Justification based on our faith or believing, as some say of God in eternal election and foreknowledge, that God did see beforehand who would believe on Him, and Justified them based upon that, then that means God Justified us based upon some foreseen grace or goodness in us, which totally does away with being Justified freely by His Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Thats what makes faith/believing a meritorious work ! 26

You continue in this false logic that contradicts Scripture. Keep studying and you might get there eventually. Just because it is freely given does not mean it is without conditions.

 

[Dah'veed]

Are we saved by the Work of Christ or by our hearing.

Incline your ear, and come unto Me: hear, and your soul shall live; Isa 55:3

We're not active in the work of Christ but we are active in our hearing of faith.

When you go to the house of God, draw near to hear rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools [careless, irreverently] too ignorant to know that they are doing evil. Eccl 5:1

 

[Brightfame52]

You continue in this false logic that contradicts Scripture. Keep studying and you might get there eventually. Just because it is freely given does not mean it is without conditions.

Christ fulfilled all the conditions. So again you show your unbelief in Christ, your faith is in a condition instead.

 

[Dah'veed]

Christ fulfilled all the conditions. So again you show your unbelief in Christ, your faith is in a condition instead.

Since they are unaware of God’s way of making people righteous, they instead seek to set up their own futility;
For everyone who believes, trusts in the Messiah is made right with God. (Rom 10:3-4)

For the gospel I proclaimed to you, and which you received, you have a ground to stand on, by which you are saved — unless you trusted in your fruitless endeavors. (1 Cor 15:1-4)

 

[Doug Brents]

Christ fulfilled all the conditions. So again you show your unbelief in Christ, your faith is in a condition instead.

Christ Jesus did not repent for you. But He called you to repent, and He gave you a reason to repent. Christ Jesus did not confess His own name as Lord for you, but He is Lord, and demands that you admit that He is Lord, and make Him Lord of your life. Christ Jesus was baptized as an example for you, but His baptism did not cleanse your sins. Only His death and resurrection could do that. My faith is not in the conditions; my faith is in Jesus and His promise to forgive and justify me if I obey Him.

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ Jesus did not repent for you. But He called you to repent, and He gave you a reason to repent. Christ Jesus did not confess His own name as Lord for you, but He is Lord, and demands that you admit that He is Lord, and make Him Lord of your life. Christ Jesus was baptized as an example for you, but His baptism did not cleanse your sins. Only His death and resurrection could do that. My faith is not in the conditions; my faith is in Jesus and His promise to forgive and justify me if I obey Him.

Again Christ fulfilled all the conditions to declare one righteous, saved Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

but His baptism did not cleanse your sins.

The baptism of His Death did Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This is a simple but vital Gospel Truth. The word purge here is the greek word katharismos:

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

See you didnt even know that, thats why I say you are in unbelief !

 

[Doug Brents]

Again Christ fulfilled all the conditions to declare one righteous, saved Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

Yes, by the obedience of Christ salvation was made possible. But that righteousness is not applied to the individual until that individual meets the conditions God set to receive it. Again, Jesus did not repent of your sins for you; He commands you to do so (Acts 3:19). He did not confess Himself on your behalf; He commands you to do so (Rom 10:9-10).

The baptism of His Death did Heb 1:3

And when are we united with His death? When are we resurrected with Him? IN BAPTISM (Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14).

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This is a simple but vital Gospel Truth. The word purge here is the greek word katharismos:

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

See you didnt even know that, thats why I say you are in unbelief !

There is NO unbelief on my part. I read annd believe all of Scripture, not just the verses that agree with me. You, on the other hand, refuse to accept that there are conditions that MAN must meet to receive the salvation that Jesus paid for (Heb 5:9). I agree with you that Jesus, by Himself and without anyone else’s participation, did everything necessary to make salvation possible. But, as He did in the OT, He demands man’s participation and obedience to receive the benefit of that gift.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, by the obedience of Christ salvation was made possible. But that righteousness is not applied to the individual until that individual meets the conditions God set to receive it. Again, Jesus did not repent of your sins for you; He commands you to do so (Acts 3:19). He did not confess Himself on your behalf; He commands you to do so (Rom 10:9-10).

And when are we united with His death? When are we resurrected with Him? IN BAPTISM (Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14).

There is NO unbelief on my part. I read annd believe all of Scripture, not just the verses that agree with me. You, on the other hand, refuse to accept that there are conditions that MAN must meet to receive the salvation that Jesus paid for (Heb 5:9). I agree with you that Jesus, by Himself and without anyone else’s participation, did everything necessary to make salvation possible. But, as He did in the OT, He demands man’s participation and obedience to receive the benefit of that gift.

Again, your unbelief exposes itself, you dont believe Jesus Death saved anyone, just made it possible, that's unbelief not faith in Christ as Saviour.

 

[Doug Brents]

Again, your unbelief exposes itself, you dont believe Jesus Death saved anyone, just made it possible, that's unbelief not faith in Christ as Saviour.

Again, SHOW ME WHERE SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT!!!!

I don’t care what you say. Unless you can show where Scripture says that, then you are just spouting nonsense that contradicts Scripture.

 

[Brightfame52]

Again, SHOW ME WHERE SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT!!!!

I don’t care what you say. Unless you can show where Scripture says that, then you are just spouting nonsense that contradicts Scripture.

You dont care about much, you deny that Christ death justified them He died for which is unbeiief!

 

[Doug Brents]

You dont care about much, you deny that Christ death justified them He died for which is unbeiief!

You are wrong, I do care about what SCRIPTURE says. And I have shown you where SCRIPTURE says that Christ died for EVERYONE.

Now, show me where Scripture says that I am wrong, or that what I believe is “unbelief”. If you can’t do that then we are done here. This is a BIBLE discussion forum, not an opinion discussion forum.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are wrong, I do care about what SCRIPTURE says. And I have shown you where SCRIPTURE says that Christ died for EVERYONE.

Now, show me where Scripture says that I am wrong, or that what I believe is “unbelief”. If you can’t do that then we are done here. This is a BIBLE discussion forum, not an opinion discussion forum.

You haven't shown me anything save you deny that Christs death Justified them He died for which is unbelief. Faith believes in Christ as the One who saved you by His Blood. You cannot believe that if you believe His death alone doesnt save.

 

[Dah'veed]

Again Christ fulfilled all the conditions to declare one righteous, saved Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous
The baptism of His Death did Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

From that time onward, Christ waits for His enemies to be put under for His feet; 1:13; Ps. 110:1 Hebrews 10:12-14

This is a simple but vital Gospel Truth.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel, the good news of salvation; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:15-17
They stumble because they disobey the word [do not believe]...
But you are His own chosen people,...so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 1 Peter 2:6-9

 

[Doug Brents]

You haven't shown me anything save you deny that Christs death Justified them He died for which is unbelief.

I see. So what you are saying is that you don’t believe what Scripture says: your opinion is more important to you than God’s Word.

God said that Jesus died to play for the sin of EVERYONE who had ever lived.
1 John 2:1-2 - “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
Let me ask you, who do you consider to not be a part of the world?
John 3:14-16 - “And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him.
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
Again, who isn't part of the world? Additionally, do you not see the condition stated here that even though He loved the whole world and died for the whole world, only those who believe in Him will not die (spiritually).
Heb 10:10 - “By this will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Who has ever been born that is not part of all?
Rom 6:10 - “For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.”
Again, who is not part of all?
Heb 9:26 - “for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
And again, who is not part of all?
Heb 2:9 - “But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”
Who is not part of EVERYONE?

Faith believes in Christ as the One who saved you by His Blood. You cannot believe that if you believe His death alone doesnt save.

You obviously have not read a single one of my posts. Every one of them has upheld that Jesus’ blood is the only thing in all creation that could remove our sin. There is no other power in all creation that could possibly remove sin.

 

[Brightfame52]

I see. So what you are saying is that you don’t believe what Scripture says: your opinion is more important to you than God’s Word.

God said that Jesus died to play for the sin of EVERYONE who had ever lived.
1 John 2:1-2 - “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
Let me ask you, who do you consider to not be a part of the world?
John 3:14-16 - “And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him.
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
Again, who isn't part of the world? Additionally, do you not see the condition stated here that even though He loved the whole world and died for the whole world, only those who believe in Him will not die (spiritually).
Heb 10:10 - “By this will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Who has ever been born that is not part of all?
Rom 6:10 - “For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.”
Again, who is not part of all?
Heb 9:26 - “for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
And again, who is not part of all?
Heb 2:9 - “But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”
Who is not part of EVERYONE?


You obviously have not read a single one of my posts. Every one of them has upheld that Jesus’ blood is the only thing in all creation that could remove our sin. There is no other power in all creation that could possibly remove sin.

Christ died only for Gods Elect/Sheep all or everyone of them. Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

The all is restricted to all the Father gave Him in election

Jn 6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

And all of them for whom He died are saved/ Justified before because of it.

Now again, your unbelief is manifested in that you believe people for whom Christ died still die in their sins in unbelief, so you cannot believe in the Jesus who by His death alone saved them He died for, so you in unbelief.

So whenever you see the words all, everyone, world, whole world in reference to Salvation and blessing, Christs death etc its still restricted to the elect of the world.

 

[Doug Brents]

Christ died only for Gods Elect/Sheep all or everyone of them. Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

The all is restricted to all the Father gave Him in election

Jn 6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

And all of them for whom He died are saved/ Justified before because of it.

Now again, your unbelief is manifested in that you believe people for whom Christ died still die in their sins in unbelief, so you cannot believe in the Jesus who by His death alone saved them He died for, so you in unbelief.

So whenever you see the words all, everyone, world, whole world in reference to Salvation and blessing, Christs death etc its still restricted to the elect of the world.

Is see. So what you are really saying is that we cannot trust God. Because if God is so weak that He can’t pick the proper words to say what He means then He can’t be trusted in what He says elsewhere. You say that “all” really means “some” (really just “a few”). If that is true then how can we trust that His blood really can cleanse our sin? How can we trust that He really was sinless?

No! What God says is 100% correct and true. John 17:2 says only that eternal life (salvation/justification) is given to those whom God has given to Jesus. Who did God give to Jesus? THOSE WHO OBEY JESUS! (Heb 5:9). That does not limit His sacrifice to being available only to a few. The offer is there for EVERYONE, but only a few will obey Jesus, so only those few will be saved.

 

[Brightfame52]

Is see. So what you are really saying is that we cannot trust God. Because if God is so weak that He can’t pick the proper words to say what He means then He can’t be trusted in what He says elsewhere. You say that “all” really means “some” (really just “a few”). If that is true then how can we trust that His blood really can cleanse our sin? How can we trust that He really was sinless?

No! What God says is 100% correct and true. John 17:2 says only that eternal life (salvation/justification) is given to those whom God has given to Jesus. Who did God give to Jesus? THOSE WHO OBEY JESUS! (Heb 5:9). That does not limit His sacrifice to being available only to a few. The offer is there for EVERYONE, but only a few will obey Jesus, so only those few will be saved.

It appears you believe lies, like Christ died for every single individual in the whole wide world, then you believe, His death for them in and of itself didnt save them, it only made it possible to get saved. So you are in unbelief all the way around.

 

[Brightfame52]

doug brents

Who did God give to Jesus? THOSE WHO OBEY JESUS! (Heb 5:9).

True because Salvation is unto obedience, not because of ones obedience 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

So those who obey Jesus give evidence they have been saved and Christ died for them, making His the author of their Salvation and obedience.

There is only one act of obedience that saves, and that's Christs one obedience Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If you dont believe this, its unbelief !

 

[Doug Brents]

True because Salvation is unto obedience, not because of ones obedience 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I’m not sure what translation of the Bible you are using, but the wording here has given you a wrong understanding of what he is saying. Remember, this cannot contradict any other Scripture. So let’s look at the NASB:
“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as strangers, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.”
Only those who demonstrate faith receive justification (Rom 3:25-26). Only those who are washed in the blood of Jesus are justified. We are indeed justified so that we can go on obeying Christ, but the obedience that is unto justification must come before justification is received (James 2:24, John 1:12). Notice in John 1:12 the conditional appointment of becoming a child of God.

So those who obey Jesus give evidence they have been saved and Christ died for them, making His the author of their Salvation and obedience.

There is only one act of obedience that saves, and that's Christs one obedience Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If you dont believe this, its unbelief !

I have already told you that this is true. Yes, Jesus act of obedience saves us. But it only saves those of us who have faith in Him, as Scripture says repeatedly in many places.

 

[Brightfame52]

I’m not sure what translation of the Bible you are using, but the wording here has given you a wrong understanding of what he is saying. Remember, this cannot contradict any other Scripture. So let’s look at the NASB:
“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as strangers, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.”
Only those who demonstrate faith receive justification (Rom 3:25-26). Only those who are washed in the blood of Jesus are justified. We are indeed justified so that we can go on obeying Christ, but the obedience that is unto justification must come before justification is received (James 2:24, John 1:12). Notice in John 1:12 the conditional appointment of becoming a child of God.


I have already told you that this is true. Yes, Jesus act of obedience saves us. But it only saves those of us who have faith in Him, as Scripture says repeatedly in many places.

You still believe that Jesus death in and of itself saved no one That is unbeiief! You believe in the false christ that made salvation a potential for everyone, which salvation is dependent on the freewill decision of the sinner man, so the sinner man is his own savior. You deny that Christ and His death makes the difference between saved and lost, but it is the freewill decision or act of man that does. You are in unbelief!