Is belief in the creation story a salvation issue?

[Geralt]

neo-orthodox guys did just that, ended up partitioning scripture in parts (not just genesis) as either fictional and believable history. eventually ending up in a god who is creator but talks in riddles or fiction.

so you are partly right suggesting that it is NOT a matter of believing in the creator- it is a matter of believing in a KIND of creator. how we judge the the narrative, defines how we view God included in those narratives.

But it isn't a matter of not believing in the creator. Many Christians believe that Gid created everything while not believing in a literal interpretation of Genesis.

 

[brinny]

Is belief in the creation story a salvation issue?

People spend a great deal of time debating the creation of the Earth and the creatures upon it. Some say the Genesis account is literal--God did it in six 24 hour days, Adam was the first man, Eve was the first woman. Others say that God used evolution to create man. Many fall somewhere between these two positions. Sometimes discussion here gets fairly heated.

My question: Does it really matter? Is this an issue that will determine one's salvation? If not, why do we spend so much time debating it? Why do some people seem determined to convert others to their view?

Interesting. I suppose the question emerges, is there such a thing as a "Creator", and if God formed man of the dust of the ground, and if, He really did say, after the "fall" 'to dust you shall return"? And possibly of most interest, did this Creator, the living God, create man in HIS own image, and breathe His very breath into His creation, man?

Let's take it a bit further. Was there a serpent (Satan) that asked "Did God really say...?"

I suppose the bottom line question should be asked:

Is ANY of this true?

Is this also true?:

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." ~Hebrews 11:6

 

[Archivist]

Is belief in the creation story a salvation issue?

Interesting. I suppose the question emerges, is there such a thing as a "Creator", and if God formed man of the dust of the ground, and if, He really did say, after the "fall" 'to dust you shall return"? And possibly of most interest, did this Creator, the living God, create man in HIS own image, and breathe His very breath into His creation, man?

Let's take it a bit further. Was there a serpent (Satan) that asked "Did God really say...?"

I suppose the bottom line question should be asked:

Is ANY of this true?

Is this also true?:

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." ~Hebrews 11:6

So are you saying that Christians must believe the Genesis accounts as literal? Remember that Christians who do not believe in a literal reading of Genesis still believe that God exists.

 

[Archivist]

neo-orthodox guys did just that, ended up partitioning scripture in parts (not just genesis) as either fictional and believable history. eventually ending up in a god who is creator but talks in riddles or fiction.

so you are partly right suggesting that it is NOT a matter of believing in the creator- it is a matter of believing in a KIND of creator. how we judge the the narrative, defines how we view God included in those narratives.

So why is belief in a literal reading of Genesis required for salvation?

 

[brinny]

So are you saying that Christians must believe the Genesis accounts as literal? Remember that Christians who do not believe in a literal reading of Genesis still believe that God exists.

My question was, and is now, is there such a thing as a Creator?

Also take note of the Bible verse i posted.

It ties into all of this.

(there's a bottom line here, bear with me)

 

[Geralt]

it is the only revelation God has provided about creation.

unless man precedes creation or has a time machine and then becomes direct witnesses and have recorded history to what really happened, there is then something you can believe apart from faith.

unfortunately, the opposite is what we have. and therefore to NOT believe otherwise, is to walk in the path of unbelief in what God has clearly stated.

unbelief begets unbelief, eventually not just creation but the whole integrity of scripture is put into question eventually.

how is it connected to salvation ? Faith. without faith it is impossible to please God. and faith in God regarding on what He has revealed about creation is the same faith in God regarding on what He has revealed in Christ, for Christ himself as the Son of God as God is Creator.​

So why is belief in a literal reading of Genesis required for salvation?

 

[Speedwell]

apologies then. But the answer is still Yes. It takes faith to believe in creation. and therefore NOT to believe is UNBELIEF in God himself, not just unbelief in scripture (or parts of it). and without FAITH it is impossible to please God.​

But don't you see how circular that reasoning is? Not taking Genesis literally is not the same thing as "unbelief in scripture."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But don't you see how circular that reasoning is? Not taking Genesis literally is not the same thing as "unbelief in scripture."

It is if as described often satan is the author and designer of evolution for purposes of his own (to kill people who are after all only "goo" evolved, to steal souls by such enormous and destructive lies, and to destroy faith in Yhwh's Word).
Yhwh never said to listen to satan to learn his stories.
Yhwh said DO NOT .

 

[Archivist]

My question was, and is now, is there such a thing as a Creator?
Also take note of the Bible verse i posted. It ties into all of this. (there's a bottom line here, bear with me)

It is if as described often satan is the author and designer of evolution for purposes of his own (to kill people who are after all only "goo" evolved, to steal souls by such enormous and destructive lies, and to destroy faith in Yhwh's Word).
Yhwh never said to listen to satan to learn his stories.
Yhwh said DO NOT .

it is the only revelation God has provided about creation.

unless man precedes creation or has a time machine and then becomes direct witnesses and have recorded history to what really happened, there is then something you can believe apart from faith.

unfortunately, the opposite is what we have. and therefore to NOT believe otherwise, is to walk in the path of unbelief in what God has clearly stated.

unbelief begets unbelief, eventually not just creation but the whole integrity of scripture is put into question eventually.

how is it connected to salvation ? Faith. without faith it is impossible to please God. and faith in God regarding on what He has revealed about creation is the same faith in God regarding on what He has revealed in Christ, for Christ himself as the Son of God as God is Creator.​

​

But a great many Christians who believe in theistic evolution do believe in a Creator. Exactly how does a belief in evolution preclude a belief in a Creator? That has been claimed in this thread but has yet to be explained.

 

[Speedwell]

It is if as described often satan is the author and designer of evolution for purposes of his own (to kill people who are after all only "goo" evolved, to steal souls by such enormous and destructive lies, and to destroy faith in Yhwh's Word).
Yhwh never said to listen to satan to learn his stories.
Yhwh said DO NOT .

All it does is destroy faith in the interpretation of Genesis promoted by YECs, not in Genesis itself.

It seems like a lot of trouble for Satan to go to merely to discredit some upstart Protestant Bible cult.

 

[brinny]

​

But a great many Christians who believe in theistic evolution do believe in a Creator. Exactly how does a belief in evolution preclude a belief in a Creator? That has been claimed in this thread but has yet to be explained.

What comes to mind for me is that it is written that God formed man from the dust of the earth, and breathed into him, and thus man became a living soul. God formed man in His image.

The question is:

If one believes in the Creator. Does one also believe what the Creator says?

(Again, referencing the Bible verse i posted a few posts back.)

 

[brinny]

All it does is destroy faith in the interpretation of Genesis promoted by YECs, not in Genesis itself.

It seems like a lot of trouble for Satan to go to merely to discredit some upstart Protestant Bible cult.

This is NOT Satan's goal?

By the way, isn't it the living God that one professes faith in, rather than an "interpretation" of Genesis?

 

[Speedwell]

What comes to mind for me is that it is written that God formed man from the dust of the earth, and breathed into him, and thus man became a living soul. God formed man in His image.

The question is:

If one believes in the Creator. Does one also believe what the Creator says?

I believe what the Creator says, but a simplistic literal reading of the Genesis creations stories isn't it.

 

[brinny]

I believe what the Creator says, but a simplistic literal reading of the Genesis creations stories isn't it.

And by whose wisdom is one relying on in deciding if what is written in Genesis is "credible" or not?

This verse comes to mind:

"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." ~Isaiah 55:9

 

[Archivist]

What comes to mind for me is that it is written that God formed man from the dust of the earth, and breathed into him, and thus man became a living soul. God formed man in His image.

The question is:

If one believes in the Creator. Does one also believe what the Creator says?

(Again, referencing the Bible verse i posted a few posts back.)

Are bats birds? After all, Scripture tells us that they are. Or was that written for a simplistic people who did not understand the difference between birds and mammals? Was the Garden of Eden story an actual accout of creation, or an allegory that could be understood by a simplistic people?

 

[brinny]

Are bats birds? After all, Scripture tells us that they are. Or was that written for a simplistic people who did not understand the difference between birds and mammals? Was the Garden of Eden story an actual accout of creation, or an allegory that could be understood by a simplistic people?

Interesting. What scripture is that?

What do you mean by simplistic people?

 

[Speedwell]

This is NOT Satan's goal?

Why would it be? If the YECs weren't trying to shoehorn their pseudoscience into the public schools, who would care about them? Just another 19th century Protestant novelty cut like the Jehovah's witnesses or the Mormons.

By the way, isn't it the living God that one professes faith in, rather than an "interpretation" of Genesis?

My impression of YECs is that it is indeed an interpretation of Genesis which they worship. I can't account for their devotion to it in any other way.

 

[brinny]

Why would it be? If the YECs weren't trying to shoehorn their pseudoscience into the public schools, who would care about them? Just another 19th century Protestant novelty cut like the Jehovah's witnesses or the Mormons.


My impression of YECs is that it is indeed an interpretation of Genesis which they worship. I can't account for their devotion to it in any other way.

There are verses that say what Satan's goal is. One in particular that just came to mind.

Do you happen to know which one i'm referring to?

On a side note, is it idolatry to worship anything other than the living God?

In addition, what is deemed worship of an "interpretation" of Genesis?

 

[Archivist]

Interesting. What scripture is that?

Leviticus 11:13-19 "These you shall regard as detestable among the birds. They shall not be eaten; they are an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the osprey, the buzzard, the kite of any kind; every raven of any kind; the ostrich, the nighthawk, the sea gull, the hawk of any kind; the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the water hen, the desert owl,the carrion vulture, the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat."

This is from the New Revised Standard Version.

What do you mean by simplistic people?

Just what the word means, a people who treated "complex issues and problems as if they were much simpler than they really are."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Satan says "Did Yhwh REALLY Create the world ? nah-- it eviluted !