Is belief in the creation story a salvation issue?

[Speedwell]

But the real question (and the point of the OP) is, why is it important to you?

Yes, we have heard all of the arguments,

The "it casts doubt on the whole Bible" argument.
The "geneology" argument.
The "dead guy" argument.
The "calling Christ a liar" argument.
The "Jesus died for nothing" argument.
And so on.

But those are just apologetics, and unconvincing at that. I cannot credit that you are dumb enough to believe them yourselves.
You must have a real reason for requiring that the Genesis stories be 100% accurate literal history. If you were a Darbyite maybe I could understand it. They must have a young Earth or their beloved timeline falls apart. What about you?

 

[Archivist]

Bronze age?

Yes.

 

[brinny]

Yes.

Hahahaaaaaa!

Yes? Just yes?

Well whatta'ya' mean by Bronze age?

 

[Speedwell]

Bronze age?

In the Near East, about 3500 BC to 1500 BC.

 

[brinny]

In the Near East, about 3500 BC to 1500 BC.

Thanks, but why is it called the Bronze Age?

 

[Speedwell]

Thanks, but why is it called the Bronze Age?

Because that was the period in which bronze was the principle metal of technology. As metalworking techniques improved it was gradually replaced by iron, which ushered in the Iron Age

 

[brinny]

Because that was the period in which bronze was the principle metal of technology. As metalworking techniques improved it was gradually replaced by iron, which ushered in the Iron Age

Were human beings any different then than they are now?

Thanks, by the way.

 

[Archivist]

Were human beings any different then than they are now?

Thanks, by the way.

Sorry, I assumed terms such as Bronze Age and Iron Age were common knowledge. We're humans different then? Well, they certainly lacked the knowledge that we have now.

 

[brinny]

Sorry, I assumed terms such as Bronze Age and Iron Age were common knowledge. We're humans different then? Well, they certainly lacked the knowledge that we have now.

ok, but were they different in other ways?

 

[Archivist]

ok, but were they different in other ways?

They were generally shorter--5 foot for women, 5'5" for men--and only lived to about 30.

But what does this have to do with a belief in a literal Genesis being necessary for salvation for us today? Please stay on topic.

 

[brinny]

They were generally shorter--5 foot for women, 5'5" for men--and only lived to about 30.

But what does this have to do with a belief in a literal Genesis being necessary for salvation?

Yet the same mental capacity as we have now?

Just asking about why the Bronze Age was brought up.....it was regarding the simplistic thinking of some.

 

[Speedwell]

Yet the same mental capacity as we have now?

Just asking about why the Bronze Age was brought up.....it was regarding the simplistic thinking of some.

I'm not sure we can ever know why it was written the way it was or what contemporary readers made of it. It doesn't matter. The point of bringing it up is that by the very same standards of modern scientific accuracy which YECs expect us to apply to Genesis, it is a grievous error which undermines the authority of scripture, calls Christ a liar and negates any reason for His sacrifice.

If not, why not?

 

[Archivist]

Yet the same mental capacity as we have now?

Just asking about why the Bronze Age was brought up.....it was regarding the simplistic thinking of some.

It was. Reading and writing were just developing. The wheel wasn't used for transportation until about 3000 BC. Tools or weapons made with iron? Not happening. A Big Bang and the Universe expanding over billions of years. They won't get it. Evolution? They won't get that either. A story that God did it all in six days, that they can understand.

 

[brinny]

I'm not sure we can ever know why it was written the way it was or what contemporary readers made of it. It doesn't matter. The point of bringing it up is that by the very same standards of modern scientific accuracy which YECs expect us to apply to Genesis, it is a grievous error which undermines the authority of scripture, calls Christ a liar and negates any reason for His sacrifice.

If not, why not?

Now you have every right to share your opinion, but it does not necessarily mean that others are compelled to agree.

From what i understand, the Word of God requires that the Holy Spirit teach and guide us in His Word as we read it.

This verse comes to mind:

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." ~Jeremiah 33:3

This means that in seeking God through His Word, He shows us great and mighty which we did not know previously, through the Holy Spirit.

In addition, if there is the question of relying on man's wisdom or God's, God answers this in His Word.

In Genesis, in the beginning of Genesis, it is written "In the beginning..." is it not.

The "beginning" begins with God the Creator.

IT seems the only Authority re: God being Creator would come from the Creator Himself.

He was there.

We were not.

Therefore He has the Authority.

We do not.

He is Creator.

We are the created.

is there any imperfection with the Creator?

Does He mean what He says?

Questioning God's credibility is nothing new, however.

Does this sound familiar?:

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" ~Genesis 3:1

 

[Archivist]

Now you have every right to share your opinion, but it does not necessarily mean that others are compelled to agree.

From what i understand, the Word of God requires that the Holy Spirit teach and guide us in His Word as we read it.

This verse comes to mind:

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." ~Jeremiah 33:3

This means that in seeking God through His Word, He shows us great and mighty which we did not know previously, through the Holy Spirit.

In addition, if there is the question of relying on man's wisdom or God's, God answers this in His Word.

In Genesis, in the beginning of Genesis, it is written "In the beginning..." is it not.

The "beginning" begins with God the Creator.

IT seems the only Authority re: God being Creator would come from the Creator Himself.

He was there.

We were not.

Therefore He has the Authority.

We do not.

He is Creator.

We are the created.

is there any imperfection with the Creator?

Does He mean what He says?

Questioning God's credibility is nothing new, however.

Does this sound familiar?:

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" ~Genesis 3:1

Are you saying that this is a salvation issue? That is the point of this thread.

 

[brinny]

Are you saying that this is a salvation issue? That is the point of this thread.

Please see the post i was responding to.

Thanks.

 

[Archivist]

Please see the post i was responding to. Thanks.

I did read that post. I am asking if you see it as a salvation issue, the point of this thread.

BTW, love Snoopy but you should have a Seuss character to go with your quote.

 

[brinny]

I did read that post. I am asking if you see it as a salvation issue, the point of this thread.

BTW, love Snoopy but you should have a Seuss character to go with your quote.

i was responding to whether God deserves credibility or not, which is crucial to establish before even venturing on salvation.

Unless God is credible, how can He be trusted whole-heartedly, which is required for salvation?

(you don't likes da Snoops?)

 

[Archivist]

i was responding to whether God deserves credibility or not, which is crucial to establish before even venturing on salvation.

Unless God is credible, how can He be trusted whole-heartedly, which is required for salvation?

(you don't likes da Snoops?)

Already said I like Snoopy. Was always a fan of Peanuts. You just need something that goes with the quote. The Cat in the Hat, Horton, etc.

Is God less credible if He provided an allegory that could be understood by the people at that time instead of an actual discription of creation? I don't think so.

 

[brinny]

Already said I like Snoopy. Was always a fan of Peanuts. You just need something that goes with the quote.

Is God less credible if He provided an allegory that could be understood by the people at that time instead of an actual discription of creation? I don't think so.

is the assumption that there is an "allegory" for creation from man, or God?

(can't think of any of Dr. Seuss's creatures that would fit in with the quote...the theme of the quote is "nonsense", and therefore anything nonsensical fits right in...)