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And how is believing that God used evolution to create everything agreeing with the Nazis?
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And how is believing that God used evolution to create everything agreeing with the Nazis?Consider this, no one honestly thinks any [Christian] should agree with the nazis.
This is like talking to a broken record. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over.
As I have said numerous times, I believe that God created everything.
Posting numerous Biblical verses saying that He created everything doesn't disagree with my belief.
And how is believing that God used evolution to create everything agreeing with the Nazis?
but those of us who believed that God used evolution to create the world aren't attempting to impose anything on others.
I don't have any point to prove.
But the topic of thsi thread is specifically whether belief in the Genesis creation account is a salvation issue. No one has yet convinced me that it is.
So what exactly is this "tiny island" you apparently have marooned me on with Dr. Barr?T.E's have found a "tiny island" for themselves and Bible believing Christians are not going there with them - neither are the atheists and agnostics apparently.
So what exactly is this "tiny island" you apparently have marooned me on with Dr. Barr?
What's the difference? Evidently you have some notion of what theistic evolution entails which excludes Dr. Barr. He certainly was not a "Bible-believing" Christian. Although an ordained clergyman of the Church of Scotland he was outspoken in his opposition to literal inerrancy. Why does that not make him a theistic evolutionist?Bar is a believer in evolutionism - but is not a T.E. as far as I know -- so you might be there by yourself if that is your only other choice.
So what exactly is this "tiny island" you apparently have marooned me on with Dr. Barr?
What's the difference?
The YEC stance is a bit ridiculous considering what we know. The twisting of logic to make the YEC position work is more work than I think is necessary. It also continues the stereotype of Christians being anti-intellectual.
I have yet to see where it has been adequately proved that it is a salvational issue so I see no need to believe something that I find utterly ridiculous.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Do you really think there are very many who take that position? I'm not saying otherwise, I just don't know anybody who does. Maybe a "tiny island" is big enough for them.Bar is a believer in evolutionism - but is not a T.E. as far as I know -- so you might be there by yourself if that is your only other choice.
Good point - both reject the Bible -- Barr's rejection of it is much closer to atheism's claims - since like athiests he has no need to try and merge/bend/pretend the Bible is trying to make a statement compatible with atheist evolutionism.
Yours might be as well - so in that case neither of you would fit on the standard tiny-island of T.E.'s who expend every effort to try and get the Bible to say something compatible with blind-faith atheist evolutionism - instead of just admitting that the Bible clearly does no such thing.
Nazis argued that they are more evolved and that cleansing the human race to evolve to the point of only tolerating the "master race" was simple evolution
Those of us who claim you can only leap off that cliff by ignoring the details in the text - are affirmed - each time you ignore these details...
you are making my case for me - by such determination to avoid the actual details.
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indeed.
by contrast the Bible answers the question beyond all doubt -- for those that believe the Bible --
Because your "strategy" has been to 'ignore every detail in the posts' and then circle back to "I still don't see anything".
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By contrast we had this irrefutable post --
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In "theory" this thread is about what the Bible says regarding the significance of the Bible account of creation and how it pertains to Gospel - salvation.
Which got this response.
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As we saw here that -- the Word of God places the creation fact - as the basis for true worship.
John is informed by Genesis 1, and accepts the Bible rather than rejecting it...
John knows his readers are informed by it... assumes they accept it.
Notice that John 1 is not blind faith evolutionism - just as Genesis 1 is not.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Genes 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
And "yes" John knew of Ex 20:11 so also did his readers
Rev 14:6-7
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Revelation 4:
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.”
John 1
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Genes 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
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T.E's have found a "tiny island" for themselves and Bible believing Christians are not going there with them - neither are the atheists and agnostics apparently. (I don't see many Hindus or Buddhists arguing that the Bible is true - except it is bent to preach darwinism)
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And apparently had no answer for this post than to ignore every detail listed as if blind or could not see for some other reason.
Which is about what we would have expected since these are Bible texts.
Once again, posting the same quotations over and over does not help your argument.
Agai, which one of the verses your posted specifically says that belief in the Genesis salvation story is a salvation issue?
You need to learn your history. The Nazis rejected human evolution from animals. They rejected the common origin of the different human races, claiming that Aryans and Jews could not have shared a common ancestor. In fact Nazi guidelines for public libraries specifically banned "writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism."
Do you really think there are very many who take that position? I'm not saying otherwise, I just don't know anybody who does. Maybe a "tiny island" is big enough for them.
Evolution is a scientific fact.
What's there to discuss?
There's that Biblical inerrancy thing which is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, it's just a theory, that people keep pushing. It's wrong, but Christians ignoring the fact of evolution isn't a salvation issue.
P.s. I'm borrowing language from creationists.
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