Is belief enough to be saved?

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

Albion said:
In that case, you have your answer. We are saved by Faith and nothing in the Balaam account conflicts with that reality.

Balaam had faith in God, did he not? If what you speak is true, then Balaam will be given eternal life at Judgement Day, and so will everyone who had faith in the LORD, but did not do His will...

simonthezealot · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Brother, I sincerely do not think that's what that passage means. The message was sent to the Church (body of believers in Sardis) as a stern warning for them (the assembly) to wake up from their slumber, and turn back to the LORD before it was too late.

You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. Revelation 3:4

Tell me, why were some in Sardis worthy to walk with Jesus Christ dressed in white? It was only because their works were perfect before God, they were found to be blameless. Each and everyone of us needs to appear blameless when the LORD returns, otherwise our faith will have been in vain.

Is everyone saved in your church? Be real now.
The local church and the body of believers are not interchangeable.

Q: How does one appear blameless before the Lord?
A: By being covered by the blood of the Lamb...Like a dung pile covered by perfect white snow, did the dung make and put the snow over it to give it it's pristine purity in appearance? NO it was a gift from the heavens.

simonthezealot · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Balaam had faith in God, did he not? If what you speak is true, then Balaam will be given eternal life at Judgement Day, and so will everyone who had faith in the LORD, but did not do His will...

Who among us does His will to the fullest?

NONE.
We are all but filthy rags. None are righteous, no NOT one.

simonthezealot · Feb 15, 2012

Yo Lion, no offense but you got some twisted theology. Where you getting all this from?

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

simonthezealot said:
Who among us does His will to the fullest?

NONE.
We are all but filthy rags. None are righteous, no NOT one.

Abraham was found to be righteous before the LORD, and so will everyone who abides in Jesus Christ.

Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, and he was called Gods friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:21-26

_ _ _ _ _

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Revelation 22:11

_ _ _ _ _

You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Matthew 5:43-45

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

simonthezealot said:
Yo Lion, no offense but you got some twisted theology. Where you getting all this from?

Is it twisted because it does not agree with yours?

New_Wineskin · Feb 15, 2012

Noblerare said:
Hi guys, I am a Christian but I have a question about whether or not belief in God is enough to be saved.

Here are some verses that show that belief = salvation.

You guys get the point. And this sounds great. But, what about this?

The way I understand it, "belief" in Jesus Christ isn't enough to be saved. True belief in Jesus will result in fruit that is evident by a lifestyle change, a heart change: that you want nothing else to do with the world that satisfies the needs of the flesh but really only care about satisfying God and being led by the Spirit.

However, if this is the case, what do we make of the first 3 verses I posted? They clearly seem to state that belief is all that is needed for salvation.

Can somebody please shine a light on this issue for me? I think how we understand salvation really changes how we live our lives and especially how we evangelize to others (in other words, if belief isn't enough to be saved, we shouldn't be spreading that as a final end).

Thank you for your help.

Belief in God does not save ... believing Him does .

simonthezealot · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Is it twisted because it does not agree with yours?

No because there is too much scripture that needs to be thrown out to support a synergistic- Pelagian theology.
Plus synergism gives to much glory to man.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

simonthezealot said:
Is everyone saved in your church? Be real now.
The local church and the body of believers are not interchangeable.

That's the reason the LORD sent that message to the church in Sardid; not everyone was saved.

Q: How does one appear blameless before the Lord?
A: By being covered by the blood of the Lamb...Like a dung pile covered by perfect white snow, did the dung make and put the snow over it to give it it's pristine purity in appearance? NO it was a gift from the heavens.

This is how one appears blameless before God.

Come now, and let us reason together, said the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

simonthezealot said:
No because there is too much scripture that needs to be thrown out to support a synergistic- Pelagian theology.
Plus synergism gives to much glory to man.

I do not believe it does (although, I have no clue as to what you have just said ). After all, it's not us who is doing these works but the LORD Himself- thus no man can boast.

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:6

_ _ _ _ _

Philip said, Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.

Jesus answered: Dont you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father? Dont you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. John 14:8-14

SolomonVII · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Balaam had faith in God, did he not? If what you speak is true, then Balaam will be given eternal life at Judgement Day, and so will everyone who had faith in the LORD, but did not do His will...

Balaam, as a prophet, had knowledge of God. If he had faith in God, he would have believed in the goodness of God's plan, and the goodness of God's love for his people.
If he had faith, he would have believed in the blessings that God has bestowed upon the Israelites though Balaam's own words.
Instead, it was faithlessness in God that hardened Balaam's heart against his own prophecy, and led him to find other ways to bring a curse upon God's people.

The destruction of 24,000 that resulted from Balaam's conspiracy against God's words were not an act of faith, but of faithlessness.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

SolomonVII said:
Balaam, as a prophet, had knowledge of God. If he had faith in God, he would have believed in the goodness of God's plan, and the goodness of God's love for his people.
If he had faith, he would have believed in the blessings that God has bestowed upon the Israelites though Balaam's own words.
Instead, it was faithlessness in God that hardened Balaam's heart against his own prophecy, and led him to find other ways to bring a curse upon God's people.

The destruction of 24,000 that resulted from Balaam's conspiracy against God's words were not an act of faith, but of faithlessness.

How is one bestowed the spiritual gift of prophecy? Is not only by faith?

But Balaam answered them, “Even if Balak gave me all the silver and gold in his palace, I could not do anything great or small to go beyond the command of the LORD my God. Now spend the night here so that I can find out what else the LORD will tell me.”

That night God came to Balaam and said, “Since these men have come to summon you, go with them, but do only what I tell you.” Numbers 22:18-20

SolomonVII · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
How is one bestowed the spiritual gift of prophecy? Is not only by faith?

But Balaam answered them, “Even if Balak gave me all the silver and gold in his palace, I could not do anything great or small to go beyond the command of the LORD my God. Now spend the night here so that I can find out what else the LORD will tell me.”

That night God came to Balaam and said, “Since these men have come to summon you, go with them, but do only what I tell you.” Numbers 22:18-20

I think this is a case of God sending his rains upon the good and the evil.

Human life itself is a spiritual gift. But to me, it just does not make any sense to describe Balaam as a man of faith, any more than it would make sense to say Satan has faith in God.

Can it be said that Benedict Arnold had faith in America? To have faith in something means to believe in that something, and to share a common purpose and a common goal. Faith implies much more than just knowledge. It implies love too.

Balaam had faith in God as a polythieist might have faith in God. He saw God as a power that could be manipulated for his own aggrandizement. It was an impersonal relationship. No love was involved, no acknowledgement of the personhood of God. It was all about manipulating the powers to suit the desired ends.

And his desires went to actively subvert God's people. When he could not manipulate God to bring upon the curse against Israel, he discerned the Israelite as the weak link and went about developing a plan against God that would have them bring about the curse on themselves.

They say the AntiChrist and the Beast in the end times will have similar spiritual gifts. I don't think that these could be described as persons of great faith either though, and great spiritual gifts will make them all the more faithless.
Christian faith is defined through trust and confidence in God, and not just belief in the existence of God. Balaam had no trust or confidence in God's decision, and continued to actively work against God's plans and God's blessings.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

SolomonVII said:
I think this is a case of God sending his rains upon the good and the evil.

Human life itself is a spiritual gift. But to me, it just does not make any sense to describe Balaam as a man of faith, any more than it would make sense to say Satan has faith in God.

Can it be said that Benedict Arnold had faith in America? To have faith in something means to believe in that something, and to share a common purpose and a common goal. Faith implies much more than just knowledge. It implies love too.

Balaam had faith in God as a polythieist might have faith in God. He saw God as a power that could be manipulated for his own aggrandizement. It was an impersonal relationship. No love was involved, no acknowledgement of the personhood of God. It was all about manipulating the powers to suit the desired ends.

And his desires went to actively subvert God's people. When he could not manipulate God to bring upon the curse against Israel, he discerned the Israelite as the weak link and went about developing a plan against God that would have them bring about the curse on themselves.

They say the AntiChrist and the Beast in the end times will have similar spiritual gifts. I don't think that these could be described as persons of great faith either though, and great spiritual gifts will make them all the more faithless.
Christian faith is defined through trust and confidence in God, and not just belief in the existence of God. Balaam had no trust or confidence in God's decision, and continued to actively work against God's plans and God's blessings.

I appreciate your thoughts, but I'll stick with the LORD's word. Only those who have the Spirit of God can have the gift of prophecy:

Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. 1 Corinthians 12:1-6

Balaam had the Spirit of God, which is only received by faith.

wayseer · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:

Have you read Romans 2 - all of it? Probably not.

wayseer · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Brother, I sincerely do not think that's what that passage means.

Perhaps you could us the benefit of your interpretation where Jesus said ... At Judgement day, each man will be judged according to their works and those whose names are not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

I note that you appear fond of quoting scripture but to date you have not acknowledge this particular quote of Jesus?

For all your quotes it is apparent you struggle to understand what it is your are quoting.

Lion King · Feb 15, 2012

wayseer said:
Perhaps you could us the benefit of your interpretation where Jesus said ... At Judgement day, each man will be judged according to their works and those whose names are not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

I note that you appear fond of quoting scripture but to date you have not acknowledge this particular quote of Jesus?

For all your quotes it is apparent you struggle to understand what it is your are quoting.

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ Revelation 3:1-6

Then, skip down to Revelation 20:

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:12-15

Albion · Feb 15, 2012

Lion King said:
Balaam had faith in God, did he not?

We think so, but of course we cannot know for sure.

If what you speak is true, then Balaam will be given eternal life at Judgement Day, and so will everyone who had faith in the LORD, but did not do His will...

Hard to answer that because I don't know exactly what you mean.

Is it that everyone who SEEMS to have Faith but ...

Or do you mean everyone who REALLY has Faith but nevertheless commits sins?

Montalban · Feb 15, 2012

Noblerare said:
Hi guys, I am a Christian but I have a question about whether or not belief in God is enough to be saved.

Here are some verses that show that belief = salvation.

Not all who cry "Lord! Lord!" will be saved except those that DO the will of God

Albion · Feb 15, 2012

Montalban said:
Not all who cry "Lord! Lord!" will be saved except those that DO the will of God

And those who have Faith certainly DO the will of God.

Is belief enough to be saved?

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