Is baptism necessary to be saved?

angeljan said:

Jesus said, "This is My Body", and He warned that no one could enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless they ate His flesh and drank His blood?

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Where in the Bible does it say unless I eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus I won't enter Heaven?

idle

Hi again Evangelist

I seems that you didn't respond much to the last three posts that I've written. I would ask that you go back through them, especially the one that talks about love. I'm very interested to hear what you have to say about them .

evangelist said:

First, we are told throughtout Scripture that Jesus is our salvation, not water.

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I have never said that water is our salvation. You must be confusing me with someone else. In fact, time and time again I have said that there is no power in the water. Being baptized for the remission of sins is something that we must do because it is something that God has said we must do - it is at this point that God has chosen to forgive our sins (this is what remission of sins means) and to bestow His grace upon us (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Colossians 2:12)

"Fix your eyes upon Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith..."

The question I ask you, my friend, is this, does water begin or finish your faith? Does water or Jesus begin and perfect your faith? The Scripture, the truth, tells us Jesus perfects our faith not water.

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I would appreciate it if you would put verse references when you quote from the Scriptures, that makes it easier for everybody to find out exactly where you're quoting from. WIth that said, let's consider what you've quoted within the context of where it's found. You've quoted from Hebrews 12:2, so let's consider what's around that:

Hebrews 11:24-12:3 ASV

By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; (25) choosing rather to share ill treatment with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; (26) accounting the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt: for he looked unto the recompense of reward. (27) By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. (28) By faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of the blood, that the destroyer of the firstborn should not touch them. (29) By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were swallowed up. (30) By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they had been compassed about for seven days. (31) By faith Rahab the harlot perished not with them that were disobedient, having received the spies with peace. (32) And what shall I more say? for the time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah; of David and Samuel and the prophets: (33) who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, (34) quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, waxed mighty in war, turned to flight armies of aliens. (35) Women received their dead by a resurrection: and others were tortured, not accepting their deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: (36) and others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: (37) they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, they were tempted, they were slain with the sword: they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated (38) (of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves, and the holes of the earth. (39) And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise, (40) God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. [Chapter 12] Therefore let us also, seeing we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, (2) looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and hath sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (3) For consider him that hath endured such gainsaying of sinners against himself, that ye wax not weary, fainting in your souls.

I've quoted quite a bit, but if you really want to get the full picture you should read the entire 11th and 12th chapters - we have to remember to keep things in Context!

Nowhere withing this passage of Scripture do we have the idea that we have to do nothing but believe. As a matter of fact all of the people who are mentioned in chapter 11 are doing things because they believe - believing wasn't enough, they had to act on their belief. This is the reason that Christ is mentioned. He suffered because He knew what He was saying to be true: He was the Son of God, He came to save sinners, He was the Way, the Truth and the Life. He was also the fulfillment of promises that were given in the Old Covenant. In this way He is the perfector of our faith, not that He magically makes your faith perfect, but He made the faith perfect or complete. He fulfilled all of the promises from the Old Testament, lived a perfect life and died as a sacrifice for sins, once for all. Hebrews 11:39, 40 is crucial to this understanding. If we have the faith that Christ perfected, then we can have the faith that is perfect.

The way that you are trying to use the verse would imply that your own personal faith had been perfected, and that's simply not what this passage means. I do agree with you, however, that Christ is the author and perfector of faith.

This means, then, that when Jesus tells us something, that we should do it. In Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28:19 Christ tells us that we should be baptized. Why do you argue against this?

Secondly, can one find righteousness through water or through Christ? The Scripture states we find righteousness through Christ.

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Again, there is no power in the water, it is simply water. God has chosen to forgive us of our sins when we are baptized, that is why baptism is for the remission of sins. One becomes a child of God after they have been baptized, and then has the promises and privelidges of being a child of God.

I hope that this has helped, at least a little. If you're interested in talking more about the section from Hebrews I would readily welcome that . If there's any other questions or comments you have, I'm also looking forward to those, too.

idleprocess said:

Where in the Bible does it say unless I eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus I won't enter Heaven?

idle

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I want to see also this bible verse .

aggie03 said:

I imagine that would depend on how you are going to define ritual or tradition. If by those words you are referring to something that man decided should be done, then no, it is neither one. It is a command from God


That's right. God has also said that if we love Him we will keep His commandments (John 14:21). You've agreed that baptism is a command, so at the very least this means that if we love the Lord we'll do it. Can you be saved without loving the Lord? The Scriptures also say that we will abide in the love of Christ if we keep His commandments (John 15:10). Can we be saved without abiding in the love of Christ?

Evangelist, I have to go to class now, but I'll come back and answer the last question of your post, which is, I believe, a very important question. I'm glad you've asked it. I'll be back on here as soon as possible

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I said I know it is a command but you didn`t answer my question at what time this is done or better what order of time it should be done??

I believe it should be done sometime after you are saved in your christian walk.

yes we should learn to learn to love and the first loves comes after you are saved , and because you got married to Jesus and not to baptism you do the thing God want because of love, not just because of rules regulations , and laws.

God Bless

aggie03

I have never said that water is our salvation. You must be confusing me with someone else. In fact, time and time again I have said that there is no power in the water. Being baptized for the remission of sins is something that we must do because it is something that God has said we must do - it is at this point that God has chosen to forgive our sins (this is what remission of sins means) and to bestow His grace upon us (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Colossians 2:12)

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You admitted that water baptism is forgiveness of sin , well what does the blood of Jesus does???

How many time we must be forgiven of our sins before we are saved??

Nowhere withing this passage of Scripture do we have the idea that we have to do nothing but believe. As a matter of fact all of the people who are mentioned in chapter 11 are doing things because they believe - believing wasn't enough, they had to act on their belief. This is the reason that Christ is mentioned. He suffered because He knew what He was saying to be true: He was the Son of God, He came to save sinners, He was the Way, the Truth and the Life. He was also the fulfillment of promises that were given in the Old Covenant. In this way He is the perfector of our faith, not that He magically makes your faith perfect, but He made the faith perfect or complete. He fulfilled all of the promises from the Old Testament, lived a perfect life and died as a sacrifice for sins, once for all. Hebrews 11:39, 40 is crucial to this that is perfect. understanding. If we have the faith that Christ perfected, we can have the then faith

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have you notice all those verse didn`t bring salvation or save anyone , but the verse 2 in Chapter 12 is proof that Jesus Christ is the one we should look unto as our author and finisher of our faith.
Jesus did the perfect work for the believers .

This means, then, that when Jesus tells us something, that we should do it. In Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28:19 Christ tells us that we should be baptized. Why do you argue against this?

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Because you put water ritual in place of the blood of jesus and you make an outward work a salvation message.
The work to Jesus and His kingdom is a inward work that counts for being saved.

One becomes a child of God after they have been baptized, and then has the promises and privelidges of being a child of God.

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I don`t no way believe this, and I completly disagree with you , because it is just an symbolic work of the real spiritual baptism that make you saved and put a person in the new born again life of Christ and not water.

Christ look at the heart for your salvation , and not water rituals.

God Bless

evangelist said:

I said I know it is a command but you didn`t answer my question at what time this is done or better what order of time it should be done??

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Yes I did I posted it just before my car analogy, which I'm still eager to hear your comments on. If you want, you can go back and check for yourself if you'd like: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1600931&postcount=1118

I'll go ahead and repost it for you now.

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I'm glad that you've asked this question. Part of the reason why I believe that there has come to be such an aversion to baptism is because of false teachings about baptism that have no basis in the Scriptures. So we'll look at what the Scriptures teach on the subject.

Acts 2:37-38 ASV

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? (38) And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The very first thing that happened on the day of Pentecost was that the Jews heard the word of God. This is explained in Romans 10:17 in that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing the word of Christ.

After they heard Peter they were pricked in their hearts. The word of God did something to them and they believed that Jesus was the Christ (v. 36) and that they had crucified the Son of God. This belief is what caused them to ask Peter "What shall we do?"

Peter responds to them saying "Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins"

So we have the answer to what they had to do. They had heard the word, and upon believing they should repent of their sins and then be baptized into Christ.

This one section of Scripture doesn't have everything though, and as I'm always saying, we must consider the SUM of God's word.

Acts 8:35-38 ASV

And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus. (36) And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? (37) And Philip said, If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

Philip preached Jesus to the Eunuch. From this preaching the Eunuch understood that he needed to be baptized. This means that being baptized in the name of Christ was part of preaching Jesus.

It's also of importance there that when the Eunuch asks what hinders him from being baptized Philip replies "If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest" This necessarily means that belief must come before one is baptized. There is no inherent power in the water, but as Colossians 2:12 states God works through our faith when we are baptized to raise us. Also notice that the Eunuch confesses his belief in Christ before he is baptized.

So when we consider these two passages one must hear the word of God, believe from that hearing, their belief must spur them on to repentance and confession of Christ and then one is to be baptized for the remission of sins.


I hope that I've covered this in what I've written above. If you have any other questions just let me know, and I'm looking forward to hearing back from you

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I believe it should be done sometime after you are saved in your christian walk.

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The problem is that this isn't what the Scriptures teach. They teach that one cannot become a child of God without being baptized.

yes we should learn to learn to love and the first loves comes after you are saved , and because you got married to Jesus and not to baptism you do the thing God want because of love, not just because of rules regulations , and laws.

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According to your logic then I wouldn't have to believe until after I was saved, because that's just a rule and a regulation. I wouldn't have to repent either, that's just another rule. Confessing Christ? That's a rule, don't bother with that until after you're already saved. You see where this goes?

We must be baptized for the remission of sins not because I like it, or you like or because it's a cool experience, but because God has commanded it and said that it's necessary.

evangelist said:

I want to see also this bible verse .

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John 6:52-59 ASV

The Jews therefore strove one with another, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (53) Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves. (54) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (55) For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (56) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him. (57) As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me. (58) This is the bread which came down out of heaven: not as the fathers ate, and died; he that eateth this bread shall live for ever. (59) These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

John Chapter 6:51 One of my favorite verses from the bible:


51: I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The Last supper




Angel

I have some more verses I would like to share with all of you.




1Co:11:23: For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the
Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1Co:11:24: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my
body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1Co:11:25: After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying,
This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in
remembrance of me.

1Co:11:26: For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's
death till he come.

1Co:11:27: Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord,
unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1Co:11:28: But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink
of that cup.

1Co:11:29: For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation
to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

1Co:11:30: For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Co:11:31: For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

1Co:11:32: But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not
be condemned with the world.

1Co:11:33: Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

1Co:11:34: And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto
condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.





Angel

I agree with the verses that you've quoted from 1 Corinthians 11, but what do you think about baptism?

aggie03 said:

John 6:52-59 ASV

The Jews therefore strove one with another, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (53) Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves. (54) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (55) For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (56) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him. (57) As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me. (58) This is the bread which came down out of heaven: not as the fathers ate, and died; he that eateth this bread shall live for ever. (59) These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

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you must have missed the quote , it said heaven and do you see anything in al those scriptures about the place heaven???

I did see and I hope you see that the bread is from heaven and left heaven and came down to us put that is not heaven so please can you give me another scripture stating to my answer??

God Bless

ps: nice try anyways.

MOST PROTESTANT GROUPS ALONG WITH THE CATHOLICS BELIEVE IN THE FOLLOWING TO BE SAVED. THESE ARE IN THE BIBLE, AND THESE VERSES APPLY TO ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS OR FOLLOWERS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH.



To be saved, you must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). However, that's not all. Sacred Scripture clearly shows other things you must also do to be saved:

You must endure to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.
You must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27.
You must be baptized with water. Mark 16:16, Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21.
You must be a member in God's true church. Acts 2:47.
You must confess your sins. James 5:16, I John 1:9.
You must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21.
You must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.
You must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16, I Corinthians 11:23-29.
Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to His call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. CCC 1996, John 1:12-18, John 17:3, Romans 8:14-17, 2 Peter 1:3-4.


ANGEL

aggie03 Have you heard of the Church of Christ??

Do you know what they believe??

God Bless

Is baptism necessary to be saved?

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Yes, if you are not baptised you will burn in hell for all eternity.

Bummer.

evangelist said:

you must have missed the quote , it said heaven and do you see anything in al those scriptures about the place heaven???

I did see and I hope you see that the bread is from heaven and left heaven and came down to us put that is not heaven so please can you give me another scripture stating to my answer??

God Bless

ps: nice try anyways.

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You asked for the place in the Scriptures where it talked about eating flesh and blood. What I quoted is that place

Of course, I don't think that Christ is being literal, in that when we partake of the Lord's Supper we are not actually drinking His blood and eating His body - but that is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TOPIC, so I will ask politely that anyone who wishes to contine talking about this, please please please - I beg you , do so in another thread

Let's stick to our original intent here and talk about baptism