Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[PattyOfurniture]

and Perhaps it was,'ol Chap...
The Dead Sea Scrolls also depict the baptism ritual as something practiced by much of Jewry at that time. To this day Jews practice baptism for both male and female converts who immerse themselves in a ritual bath (Jewish Literacy by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, 1991, page 625).
In the Wilderness, at the Tabernacle, the Levites were cleansed via sprinkling of water – a type of baptism – to purify them in preparation in service to God and man (Num 8:6-7,11,21).
the Levites had to be bathed or washed clean in water in Ex 29:4 “one of the ceremonial washings referred to in Heb. 6.2, and rendered “baptisms”” (Bullinger, Companion Bible, page 113).

 

[PattyOfurniture]

I found this ,it may help....
http://www.haydid.org/ronimmer.htm

its fairly in depth concerning baptism for conversion into judaism

if this doesn't help,researching Talmud would be much better

 

[BroGinder]

The age of accountability is one of those grey areas. I believe once you become aware of what baptism is and why its done, you become accountable, no matter the age.

However baptism is required for salvation. the Water has long been a seperation going all the way back to Moses as he led Isreal across the Red Sea. The Water Washed away their past leaving no remnant of it. So long as they did not go back to Egypt, it was gone.

Remission of sin is the same, we need it. Repentance only forgives, the Baptism is to remit. It is designed also as an identification with Christ. We Die out to sin. Identifying with Jesus dieing on the cross we cruxify the flesh and turn 180 degrees to go a new way(Repent) Then we are buried in a watery grave indentifying with Christ as he was placed in the tomb. We bury the old man arising a new creature with a new name. it is in the Baptism that we take on the name of Christ. (Baptism) Then we shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Resurection) Acts 2:28 they asked what must we do to be saved. the answer was Repent, be baptised in the name of Jesus Chrsit for the remission of sin, and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Simple thoughts from a simple man. God Bless

 

[Soul Searcher]

So effectively you are saying that God alone does not save people nor does Jesus alone save people. Rather you have indicated that a man must preform the ritual of baptism in order for a person to be saved.

Nonsense,

 

[BroGinder]

Would you say that Peter missed it? After three years with Jesus teaching him one on one?

Would you say when Jesus interacted with Nicodemus he was off when he said be born of water and the Spirit?

How do you view it my friend?

 

[Evergreen48]

Hebrews 9:10 tells us that Baptism was an Old Testament thingy.....

Except I believe the phrase 'Old Testament' thingy would be better said 'old covenant'.
So since they, the Hebrews came to be under the new covenant when the old one passed away, and we, the Gentiles, were never under it to start with, why is necessary for either Jews (Hebrews) or Gentile to be baptised? That would be kind of like putting new wine in old bottles, or a patch of new fabric on an old garment, wouldn't it?

BTW, thanks for the web site. It is very informative.

 

[KCDAD]

Except I believe the phrase 'Old Testament' thingy would be better said 'old covenant'.
So since they, the Hebrews came to be under the new covenant when the old one passed away, and we, the Gentiles, were never under it to start with, why is necessary for either Jews (Hebrews) or Gentile to be baptised? That would be kind of like putting new wine in old bottles, or a patch of new fabric on an old garment, wouldn't it?

BTW, thanks for the web site. It is very informative.

The only problem with the "covenant" thingy is that that indicates that God changed his mind about how to deal with us pesky human sinners. That is not very sound Theology.

 

[KCDAD]

Would you say that Peter missed it? After three years with Jesus teaching him one on one?

Would you say when Jesus interacted with Nicodemus he was off when he said be born of water and the Spirit?

How do you view it my friend?

Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Born of the water... from your birth.
Born of the Spirit... your spiritual "rebirth".

Why do I suggest this? Look at the next verse:

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

Except I believe the phrase 'Old Testament' thingy would be better said 'old covenant'.
So since they, the Hebrews came to be under the new covenant when the old one passed away, and we, the Gentiles, were never under it to start with, why is necessary for either Jews (Hebrews) or Gentile to be baptised? That would be kind of like putting new wine in old bottles, or a patch of new fabric on an old garment, wouldn't it?

BTW, thanks for the web site. It is very informative.

Hey Dude
I was just stating it pre-existed 30 A.D.
I'm the Gentile of Gentiles when it comes to the 'do's and don'ts'
as far as preferring old covenant over old testament ....of course.
I myself kinda bite when it comes to semantics

 

[Soul Searcher]

Would you say that Peter missed it? After three years with Jesus teaching him one on one?

Would you say when Jesus interacted with Nicodemus he was off when he said be born of water and the Spirit?

How do you view it my friend?

I view it as no other man or woman being nessacary for ones salvation. The ritual of baptism is a ritual and nothing more.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

I view it as no other man or woman being nessacary for ones salvation. The ritual of baptism is a ritual and nothing more.

Dressin' up in those special duds (we don't wear to work ,home or shopping)before we leave our Hotel room on the way downtown to the Trekkie convention is also a pretty cool Ritual.
and like most pretty cool Rituals,theres meaning.

 

[Snow Angel]

No" I Don't Think So.The Theft on the cross,Wasn't Baptize ,and Jesus said to day you will be in paradise with me:

 

[AngelusSax]

No" I Don't Think So.The Theft on the cross,Wasn't Baptize ,and Jesus said to day you will be in paradise with me:

We don't technically know that. The Bible doesn't say that that thief wasn't someone who had been baptized and then, like many of us, erred afterward (though his was a more criminal erring than most of ours typically is, hence his crucifixion).

We also don't know that he was.

We also know that this was pre-resurrection. We also know that Jesus says all who are baptized and believe will enter the kingdom of heaven. We also know Jesus commanded His disciples to go into all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Also, when Jesus Himself was asking to be baptized, John questioned Him. Jesus' reply?

"Let it be so for now. For in this way we shall do all that God requires." So John agreed. (Matthew 3:15, GNB)

Other translations say "Let it be done so now, for it is proper to do in order to fulfill all righteousness".

Baptism, it seems to me then, is more than just a ritual. It has efficacy. It isn't something we do to others apart from God. It's something we do to show what God has done. We baptize and are baptized by the Holy Spirit, and water is a sign.

Baptism is the Word working within the water, not just water alone. The preacher doesn't baptize. God does, using the preacher as an instrument in fulfilling the baptism.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

No" I Don't Think So.The Theft on the cross,Wasn't Baptize ,and Jesus said to day you will be in paradise with me:

Ma'am,I'm with you on this.when it comes down to brass tacks...I'm thinking God is way more forgiving and understanding than we are.and i think He prolly takes each situation and different circumstances into account.
thats prolly why Hes God,and we are not....lol

 

[PattyOfurniture]

The preacher doesn't baptize. God does, using the preacher as an instrument in fulfilling the baptism.

i dont agree with one thing...the preacher (in my opinion0 does the dunking,sprinkling whatever.only because any Oneness Pentecostal worth his Mortons will tell you you must be Baptized in "Jesus name only".whereas most other protestants do so in Father,Son and Holy Ghost and Catholics dunk the children....
I think us meatheads tend to mess everything up(leaving the Father out)

 

[BroGinder]

No" I Don't Think So.The Theft on the cross,Wasn't Baptize ,and Jesus said to day you will be in paradise with me:

Jesus had not died yet, and the OLD LAW was still in effect then.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

Jesus had not died yet, and the OLD LAW was still in effect then.

that just opened a killer big can o' worms bro,jee thanks Dude.....lol

 

[BroGinder]

Ma'am,I'm with you on this.when it comes down to brass tacks...I'm thinking God is way more forgiving and understanding than we are.and i think He prolly takes each situation and different circumstances into account.
thats prolly why Hes God,and we are not....lol

I Hope your right but I am living like your wrong. The Bible says that God is not respector of person. I am sure there is not a circumstancial portion to salvation.

I am sure Gods plan is in that book and we ARE held accountable for it.

God Bless

 

[Soul Searcher]

Dressin' up in those special duds (we don't wear to work ,home or shopping)before we leave our Hotel room on the way downtown to the Trekkie convention is also a pretty cool Ritual.
and like most pretty cool Rituals,theres meaning.

hmm.. I don;t think you'll see me in any "special duds" going to a trekkie convention anytime soon.

Sure rituals mean something to those who practice them but that means basically squat.

The thing is that the things that are important is to obey the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. You could be baptised everyday of your life and it still would not equal a single act of kindness toward your fellow man.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

The thing is that the things that are important is to obey the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. You could be baptised everyday of your life and it still would not equal a single act of kindness toward your fellow man.

Careful Fella, last time i read something crazy like that....it was Jesus saying it....
Dude, preach what you just typed from the rooftops,I'm not kidding.We all need to hear that more often
as far as the trekkie thingy, it was basically the same stuff the fuller-brush man says as he peeks past you into your living room if you get my drift,a cheap way in....
GBU