And that will not be a baptism...
A person who doesn't want to be baptized is not willing to be a disciple of Christ.
YAQUBOS
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I will suffice to say this. If a preacher would not baptize me I would baptize myself.
As far as saying that the Inspired Word of God is full of errors posted by the Apostles who did not understand what he was saying. I can not say that.
I would also agree we are walking around in circles he said and he said. I would say a person not willing to be dunked in the Name of Jesus would still be Loved anyway, though falling short.
God bless my friend
Why is that Christians seem to believe that being saved is something that happens to you? (Like getting a tooth removed)
Being saved is a state of grace that is given freely by God to ALL.
I always like this "bumper sticker theology": Everyone is saved, the only difference between a Christian and someone else is the Christian knows it.
Go to heaven? Heaven isn't some place you go, silly boy.
You are either in heaven or hell right now or you ain't never gonna get there.
"True Christians"? You had better be careful my judgmental friend.
Don't hold your breath waiting for Jesus to return. He already did. That's what the Holy Spirit is.
Being saved is being saved, and not imagining to be saved... It's something that is done for you and in you by Jesus Christ.
And what is the judgment of God on sin?
YAQUBOS
Jesus told lots of stories... Lazarus is about seeking after wealth and success on Earth... not about Heaven and Hell. Do you REALLY think people in heaven and hell can talk to each other? (What the heck is Abraham doing in Heaven in this story. Abraham had faith, but did not obey the law, and certainly did not live a holy or righteous life, and there was Jesus to die for Abraham...Look what Jesus said:
"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
"In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom." ( Luke 16:22-23 )
Be careful: you are following deceptions.
YAQUBOS
And He will come again just as the disciples saw Him go, i.e. from Heaven, and ALL EYES will SEE Him:
"They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." ( Acts 1:11 )
"BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen." ( Revelation 1:7 )
Did you ever see the Holy Spirit with your eyes?
If you think you did, then let me just remind you that there are still eyes that have not seen Him:
"that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you." ( John 14:17 )
So as not all eyes have seen the Holy Spirit, then we are still waiting for the second coming of Jesus Christ.
KCDAD, I see that you are not reading your Bible honestly and carefully...
YAQUBOS
What is it that you imagine being saved is? what are you saved from? What are you saved for? What the heck do you think "sin" is? God's great creation mistake?
Jesus told lots of stories... Lazarus is about seeking after wealth and success on Earth... not about Heaven and Hell. Do you REALLY think people in heaven and hell can talk to each other? (What the heck is Abraham doing in Heaven in this story. Abraham had faith, but did not obey the law, and certainly did not live a holy or righteous life, and there was Jesus to die for Abraham...
Be careful: you are following deceptions.
You REALLY understand that Jesus rose up into the sky; he literally "ascended" into heaven?
How does that work when the Earth isn't flat or two dimensional?
Heaven is out in space somewhere?
Wouldn't it depend upon where the planet it is in its rotation as to whether he was headed there or towards some other place?
Yaqubos, I see you are not using the brain God gave you honestly and carefully. Everything that glitters is not gold and every little nugget in Raisin Bran is not a raisin. And everything in the Bible is not true or from God.
YAQUBOS;39887713Jesus saved us from sin and from its consequence: eternal separation from the Holy God.
Sin is the disobedience to God and the will to be independent from Him.
God didn't do a mistake in creation. WE chose to sin.
Abraham was righteous by faith.
Jesus clearly said there is Heaven and Hell.
It's your problem if you disagree with Jesus.
Yes. The Bible says that.
By the way: it's not sky, but Heaven. Jesus went to Heaven. And He will come again from there to judge the living and the dead.
That works as long as we are not talking about the sky.
Heaven is the place of God's Throne. It's not of this creation.
Sarcasm.
Jesus said that everything in the Bible is the Word of God. If you doubt it, then you have a problem with Jesus.
Reminder: our topic is about Baptism...YAQUBOS
And you are declaring that disobedience is worthy of eternal torment? That for one act of disobedience EVERY human being in God's good creation is sentenced to hell... is that what you believe?
So it doesn't matter what you do in your lifetime... you can lie, cheat, kill... those acts of disobedience are not important? All that matters is faith?
Clearly? Where is that? Gehenna is not hell. Sheol is not hell. In Luke Jesus is VERY clear that Heaven is not someplace out there at all. It is within you.
You mean by that of course, I disagree with your interpretation of the the writings compiled in the "official Canon" of the Roman Catholic Church.
It also says cut off your hands and pluck out your eyes. It also says Mary had a little lamb. It also says it is better not to be married. It also says hate your parents. It also says the generation that Jesus lived in would see the Jesus' second coming.
Are you suggesting that Jesus ascended through the sky into Heaven but Heaven is not up there someplace? If it isn't, why ascend? Why not shift astral planes and just disappear into Heaven?
Of what creation is it?
God's throne? Are you being literal or metaphorical here? God sits around in Heaven on a throne? Perhaps that is why he doesn't seem to know what is going on and has "to come down" to Babel to see what those pesky humans are building. (I wonder....How big is that throne? What is it made of?)
You see practical application of reason as sarcasm? Sounds like a personal expression of your defensiveness.
You are wrong. Can you show me where you think Jesus said every word in the Bible is the Word of God? Of course you can't. The word Bible does not appear in the Bible because it didn't exist when Jesus was alive, in fact NOTHING in the New Testament existed.
If I disagree with YOU, I do not have a problem with Jesus... you do.
Yes. But if you don't understand what it is, what the Hebrew and Judaic traditions say about it, it profits you not to talk about it. If you don't understand the most basic concepts of sin and grace, it profits you not to talk about them.
YAQUBOS;39998746 I believe what God says. God says that your disobedience is not just a single act, but a nature in you. That sinful nature deserves eternal hell.
No. The fruit of faith is in all righteousness, but not your SELF-righteousness. No human is perfect, therefore righteousness is by faith alone.
No, Jesus clearly said that there is Heaven and hell.
No, I don't mean that. I mean you disagree with Jesus Christ.
Whatever the Bible says is true IN CONTEXT.
It's not up to you to decide how Jesus would want to go to Heaven.
N.B.: I didn't say that Heaven is not a place.
God's Throne is not a creation. It means God's authority.
God's authority, dear friend. Stop sarcasm, and be serious so that you may understand what God wants to reveal to you in His Word.
No. Using your human corrupted reason to mock the Word of God is sarcasm.
From where do you want me to quote Jesus saying that the Bible is the Word of God?
YAQUBOSThe Bible is clear about baptism. If you wish to talk about your speculations and assumptions about baptism, then you can open a thread entitled: "My views on baptism". But this thread is about what the Bible says about baptism.
God has said nothing to you or me. The Bible is not God. The Bible says...
All humans are perfect. Perfect creations of God.
Maybe heaven, but he also clearly said it wasn't a place you go to, but was here and now. You can not find "hell" anywhere in the New Testament, only various different descriptions of Hades, Sheol, Gehenna and Tartarus: NONE of which is anything like our Catholic Middle Ages idea of hell.
How could you possibly know what Jesus and I disagree about? Want to give me one example of something Jesus is quoted to have said that is different from anything I have written?
NONSENSE.
If the Bible said Jesus took a bus to go to heaven, would you be looking for it on a AAA road map, or realize that this account was faulty? Heaven is NOT UP THERE!
Jesus is quoted in the Bible as saying Heaven is not a place.
Oh, it is a metaphor. Not a literal; throne. God's authority is in heaven... not on Earth? God has no authority here?
You may I can stop God from revealing to me what he wants to reveal to me?
Word of God? Where did you get the idea that the Bible is the word of God? Please don't use 2 Timothy to justify that absurd belief. That's like me saying that everything I say is The Word of God because I said everything that proceeds out of my mouth is inspired by my love of God and useful for teaching and understanding.. Now as a teacher, I might want my students to think that, but it wouldn't make it true.
It is not the Bible nor the Word of God that I mock but the idolatrous worship of the Catholic Canon that is worthy of mockery.
Anywhere.
YAQUBOS
This thread is about non Nicene Creed Theological ideas of baptism.
The Bible is not the only source for theology, inspiration, or truth.
Get over your One Note Johnny worship of the Bible.
"Yet even the demons believe and tremble" So God saves them, too.Being saved is being saved, and not imagining to be saved... It's something that is done for you and in you by Jesus Christ.
And, no dear friend, not everyone is saved. Read carefully: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." ( John 3:16 )
Not everyone, but ONLY those who believe in Him.
And what is the judgment of God on sin?
YAQUBOS†
YAQUBOS;40026228The Bible is the Word of God. If you doubt this, then you can go discuss something else. In this thread, we are studying the importance of baptism, CHRISTIAN baptism. The only source to study that is the Bible.
BLASPHEMY!!!!! Nothing God does is imperfect.All humans sin, so all humans are imperfect.
Jesus clearly said there is Heaven and Hell. I have already showed this. No need to go back to the same thing again and again as long as you insist on refusing the Word of God.
I have already done that and I am doing it always. Example: you and Jesus disagree on the existence of Heaven and Hell. You and Jesus disagree on the meaning of Salvation, etc etc... It is clear that Jesus is not accepted by you as your personal LORD.
Yes, whatever the Bible says is true in context. This is not nonesense. Your vain discussions are nonesense.
The Bible doesn't say anything wrong.
Never. You are adding to the Word of God. Be careful!
He has. But here, on earth, there is YOU and me who can CHOOSE to obey His authority or not to obey.
No, you can't. You can only refuse to be serious so that you may understand what He already is revealing to you.
You are mocking Jesus Christ who said that the Bible is the Word of God.
Well, then I am quoted as saying that Jesus said that the Bible is the Word of God Is that a reliable source for you?
If not, then please tell me what is the reliable source from which you want me to quote Jesus saying that the Bible is the Word of God.
Meet a challenge for once
The Bible does not say that ANYTHING is necessary or required for salvation. In fact, I challenge you to find the verse where "necessary or required" is used in that context.Ok. So your answer to the question of this thread is: No, baptism is not necessary for Salvation, because I don't believe the Bible.
You could very simply say that, instead of losing our time in side-topics...
You do not preach God's Word, you preach the Bible. God's Word existed at creation... the Bible did not. Technically, the Bible has never existed, as it is only a copy of what the Catholic Church compromisingly identified as Canonical texts. There are no original manuscripts to compare.Now, my answer is: the Bible is the Word of God in which Jesus said that baptism is necessary IN Salvation, but not FOR Salvation. I preach to you the truth of God's Word. You can accept it or refuse it. But your choice will affect your eternal destiny.
No, I choose to disobey the Nicene council.You choose to be unbiblical ( you call it "non-Nicene" ) , well then you choose to disobey God's Word.
You choose to be biblical, so you choose to obey God.
When did it begin? Did it exist before Paul wrote Corinthians? Did it exist before Micah wrote his book? Did it exist before David wrote some of the Psalms? Are there still books left to written that are a part of the Bible we just haven't discovered them yet? (You know what the Muslims and LDS church say about that.)The Bible didn't begin to exist with the Council of Nicea.
YAQUBOS
http://www.theologicalstudies.citymax.com/page/page/1572454.htmWhen did it begin? Did it exist before Paul wrote Corinthians? Did it exist before Micah wrote his book? Did it exist before David wrote some of the Psalms?
Personally, I think what we have already in what is called the New Testament is sufficient to sustain our faith in Christ. And shouldn't we be thankful that at least these writings have been preserved down through the thousands of years for us? How else would we know about this man called Jesus the Christ unless we rely on at least some of these writings which are contained in what is called the New Testament? After all, there is little to nothing in secular history to confirm that even such a man as Jesus ever existed. And without the writings of the apostle Paul, where would be the hope for we the Gentiles?Are there still books left to written that are a part of the Bible we just haven't discovered them yet? (You know what the Muslims and LDS church say about that.)
"Yet even the demons believe and tremble" So God saves them, too.
James 2:19
I agree the only source for a Christian discussion is the Bible. However, the Bible is not the Word of God. You are confusing the Greek word LOGOS which refers to Jesus, with the Greek word LOGOS which means word or "thought, speech, account, meaning, reason, proportion, principle, standard" or logic.
Jesus is the Logos, the Prophets spoke the word of God. No one ever wrote the word of God even in the Bible. (In the one instance of the written word of God in Exodus, God writes it himself with his finger.) Can you find a reference to reading the word of God? It is always "hearing, knowing, speaking or living" the word of God. (The word "scripture" in Greek simply writing, any written word... it is neither capitalized nor a particularly "sacred" word like we use it today.)
BLASPHEMY!!!!! Nothing God does is imperfect.
(My guess is you don't even know what sin is. You think it is something we do... don't you?)
Write it over and over... it will not change the facts. Gehenna is not hell. Hades is not hell. Sheol is not hell. There is no fiery pit of torment for the dead. Not literally, anyway.
See below.... Luke. Clear as mud.
Don't get upset. True in context... what a copout. Matthew says Jesus was born of virgin (which he wasn't) in order to fulfill Isaiah's prophesy. However, Isaiah's prophesy has nothing to do with Jesus. It is about a kid named Immanuel 200 years before Jesus.
Matthew's statement is not true, in fact or in context. It is true in spirit... that Jesus' incarnation was amazing and noteworthy... not because of the events of his conception or birth, but because of who he was and what he taught and what he did. It was common in that day to invent miraculous conception and birth stories to single out someone as special.
Wrongly. You need an adverb there. Of course it does. Over and over again. And so what?
Luke 17:21 AND I QUOTE:
The Kingdom of God is within you.
Either he has authority or not. It can't possibly depend upon puny, imperfect sinner humans.
I am deadly serious about Christian growing up and seeing the Truth. It is way past time to stop believing in Santa Claus and the the good fairy.
Show me where he said that.
Pick a verse from the Bible that quotes Jesus saying the Bible is the word of God. That should be easy. (Not just the Law or the Prophets. Not just the Torah. The entire Bible. Gosh... I bet you can't even find that word in The Bible, can you?
The Bible does not say that ANYTHING is necessary or required for salvation. In fact, I challenge you to find the verse where "necessary or required" is used in that context.
You do not preach God's Word, you preach the Bible. God's Word existed at creation... the Bible did not. Technically, the Bible has never existed, as it is only a copy of what the Catholic Church compromisingly identified as Canonical texts. There are no original manuscripts to compare.
No, I choose to disobey the Nicene council.
I choose to obey the Truth.
When did it begin? Did it exist before Paul wrote Corinthians? Did it exist before Micah wrote his book? Did it exist before David wrote some of the Psalms? Are there still books left to written that are a part of the Bible we just haven't discovered them yet? (You know what the Muslims and LDS church say about that.)
Your source says that the Bible is just the Old Testament.
http://www.theologicalstudies.citymax.com/page/page/1572454.htm
Personally, I think what we have already in what is called the New Testament is sufficient to sustain our faith in Christ. And shouldn't we be thankful that at least these writings have been preserved down through the thousands of years for us? How else would we know about this man called Jesus the Christ unless we rely on at least some of these writings which are contained in what is called the New Testament? After all, there is little to nothing in secular history to confirm that even such a man as Jesus ever existed. And without the writings of the apostle Paul, where would be the hope for we the Gentiles?
You really don't know the difference between belief and faith, do you?The demons have a DEAD faith. Jesus is talking about the living faith.
When you want to quote any passage of the Bible, like James 2:19, please quote it in context.
Thank you.
YAQUBOS
That is true..YAQUBOS;40059680I won't discuss this here. Your point is clear: you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God
No he didn't. At least he didn't in the Bible.Well, Jesus said it is the Word of God. Your problem is with Jesus.
Who did, then?I didn't say God created us sinners.
All humans sin, so they are sinners by nature.
And this does not have anything to do with our topic.
Back to topic.
DITTOOff topic. Nothing to do with baptism.
The Bible doesn't say anything wrong. If you think it does, then go discuss it in another thread.
Quote it in context. It doesn't talk about the second coming of Jesus in the clouds.
You have a will. You are not a robot.
In the Bible. But you don't believe the Bible.
Go ahead... show me the verse. I do believe that the Bible is a man's reporting of the revelation of God through the prophets and Jesus.Yes, I can. But you don't believe the Bible. How then can I quote the Bible for you?
You don't believe the Bible. So I don't have to quote it now.
The Bible is the Word of God. If you doubt it, you can open a thread about that and discuss it.
OK. Where does it say the Bible is God's Word?Jesus said that God's Word is the truth.
It is never letters.The Word of God is not just letters.
YAQUBOSWe already got your answer to the question about baptism. So no need to bother yourself anymore.
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