Is Astrology a science?

[Bradskii]

On the Chinese horoscope, which relates character to year of birth, I am a rat. According to a book I read on the subject decades ago Gemini rats are the super rats of the astrological world. You stood no chance against my ratty super-powers!

Rat? Pfffft. I'm a dragon. Which, being Welsh, pleased me no end when I found out.

 

[sjastro]

I have a confession to make; as a teenager we do dumb things and my dumb event was taking an interest in astrology based on the science fiction book Macroscope.

​

This old book was given to me by my ex brother in law a brilliant individual with a measured IQ of 160.
Both of us developed an interest in a curious mixture of mathematics, science and astrology as defined in the book.
Fortunately I dropped the astrology part and went on with the maths and science.

Not sure about the ex brother in law though...........

 

[coffee4u]

So then why did you quote the part about burning them in your post:

"But they are like straw burning in a fire; they cannot save themselves from the flame. " if it doesn't apply anymore. (I wouldn't have even replied before if I hadn't seen this line quoted in your post.)

I quoted scripture showing that astrology falls under witchcraft and that God hates witchcraft. That was the intention of the quote.
It so happens that one of the verses included the sentencing for the crime under the Jewish law. I am hardly going to cut out the non relative parts in the middle of a quote.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I quoted scripture showing that astrology falls under witchcraft and that God hates witchcraft. That was the intention of the quote.
It so happens that one of the verses included the sentencing for the crime under the Jewish law. I am hardly going to cut out the non relative parts in the middle of a quote.

Astrology is meaningless, powerless nonsense. Just like witchcraft. Just a dumb superstition. I could have told you that when I was 10.

 

[Vap841]

If you assume Determinism as some do, then these things should be predictable if you have sufficient knowledge of the current state of particles and how they generally act, as the assumption being that particles will act in predictable ways regardless. If events only occur by a cascade of matter, that events are in a sense fated from the interactions of matter from the Big Bang onward, then Astrology in this sense is still live as a potential scientific discipline. After all, Astronomy is one of the best ways to see how matter has acted in the past.

Haha what an insight I never thought of that before lol that’s awesome. Totally correct if determinism is true, we just haven’t “Perfected” Astrology yet lol

 

[Vap841]

Are you saying there might actually be some meaningful and comprehensible relationship between astronomical affairs and the sorts of human affairs that astrologers are concerned with? Because thats what it sounds like.

Pretty sure he was just saying that would be the case only if you believe in Determinism, but he doesn’t believe in Determinism so no.

 

[durangodawood]

Pretty sure he was just saying that would be the case only if you believe in Determinism, but he doesn’t believe in Determinism so no.

Belief in determinism is completely optional to the explanation he gave about astrologers hypothesizing a a quantum entanglement or some other connection between human affairs and the stars.

Astrology would be super valuable whether the relationship is probabilistic or deterministic. (I don't think it's either.)

And even if the universe were entirely deterministic, Where's the guarantee that a meaningful intelligible connection would follow? This is just piling speculation on top of speculation.

 

[Vap841]

Belief in determinism is completely optional to the explanation he gave about astrologers hypothesizing a a quantum entanglement or some other connection between human affairs and the stars.

Astrology would be super valuable whether the relationship is probabilistic or deterministic. (I don't think it's either.)

I didn’t even notice his follow up comment that mentioned quantum entanglement I only read his first comment. From that my take away was that he made a funny observation that astrology should actually be accurate if Determinism is true.

And even if the universe were entirely deterministic, Where's the guarantee that a meaningful intelligible connection would follow? This is just piling speculation on top of speculation.

This is exactly why I don’t believe in Determinism, unintelligibility thriving inside of a species that are located in a universe that is said to be a completely intelligible system that follows rigid laws that can’t be violated is evidence for free will that in fact does violate those Deterministic laws.

Intelligible predictability (in its entirety) is the name of the game for Determinism. If I ever claim that humans make unintelligible actions against rigid laws of nature I always get hit with a reply that that “Unintelligibility” is just an illusion, it’s just that we don’t yet know enough about the lower levels of the human brain to be able to give all human actions a fully intelligible and predictable account.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

I didn’t even notice his follow up comment that mentioned quantum entanglement I only read his first comment. From that my take away was that he made a funny observation that astrology should actually be accurate

That was my original intention. The follow up was just a bit of more silly fun, since he was asking me to explain the hypothetical in allusion to 'current' astrological practice, after I already defined what I took as the essential precept of such an Astrology. The great thing about quantum stuff is you can literally apply it to most gobbledygook and somehow get something out. Like Akashic records and the like being 'entangled'.

Are you saying there might actually be some meaningful and comprehensible relationship between astronomical affairs and the sorts of human affairs that astrologers are concerned with? Because thats what it sounds like.

No, I don't think there is any evidence for that. But who knows? There was no reason for someone in the 19th century to think there might even be 'spooky action at a distance' or black holes or whatnot. Those certainly would sound pretty magical to them. I am not a determinist though, and my original point, was that determinists can still salvage predicting the future by means of observation of heavenly phenomena in conjunction with the earthly, if they so wish. No one else can.

 

[jayem]

The only useful application for astrology.

Astrology has another useful application. You can hang a medallion of your zodiac sign on your keychain.

I wouldn't even call it a pseudoscience. Astrology is entertainment. Just like Ouija boards, palm reading, Tarot cards, and psychic phone hotlines.

 

[Bradskii]

Astrology has another useful application. You can hang a medallion of your zodiac sign on your keychain.

I wouldn't even call it a pseudoscience. Astrology is entertainment. Just like Ouija boards, palm reading, Tarot cards, and psychic phone hotlines.

As Neils Bohr said about lucky charms: 'Apparently they work whether you believe in them or not'.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I might as well spill the goods. I’m 0 degrees Virgo. A true cusp with Leo rising.

Metal Pig: They enjoy a good friend, good food, good sex, good book, and just plain enjoy life.

Spot on!

The Barnum-Forer effect is hard to resist...

 

[bèlla]

The Barnum-Forer effect is hard to resist...

Most of us are kidding. We don’t take it seriously.

 

[durangodawood]

...determinists can still salvage predicting the future by means of observation of heavenly phenomena in conjunction with the earthly, if they so wish. No one else can.

If determinists can propose some complete relationship vie bogus speculations, then the rest of us can propose a probabilistic one that would be plenty useful enough for a working astrology.

 

[durangodawood]

The Barnum-Forer effect is hard to resist...

Thats what I love about astrology. You can pick any sign's horoscope and have something useful to reflect on.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Wouldn't fortune cookies then also be useful as catalog of human traits?

Only if you add the phrase, "between the sheets" to the end of the fortune!

 

[durangodawood]

Astrology is a form of witchcraft. Scripture lumps them all in together
Daniel 4:7 When all the magicians, enchanters, astrologers, and fortune-tellers came in, I told them the dream, but they could not tell me what it meant.

Isaiah 47:13-14 All the advice you receive has made you tired. Where are all your astrologers, those stargazers who make predictions each month? Let them stand up and save you from what the future holds. But they are like straw burning in a fire; they cannot save themselves from the flame. You will get no help from them at all; their hearth is no place to sit for warmth.

Leviticus 20:6 If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.

I only see them lumped together regarding effectiveness. Nor do I see one as a form of any other there.

 

[Ophiolite]

Rat? Pfffft. I'm a dragon. Which, being Welsh, pleased me no end when I found out.

Forgive me if I doubt you, but if you are a dragon how come I've never seen you flame another member?

 

[HeartNSoul19]

It's generally accepted that astronomy is a science, but astrology is not.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's generally accepted that astronomy is a science, but astrology is not.

Astronomy is a science; astrology is a sin.