Is assurance of salvation possible?

[☦Marius☦]

Fear and trembling is not the last word on the Christian life, though, and not a healthy place to be long term. At some point we have to move beyond that to simply being human beings doing human things and acting according to our own personal moral agency. We were never made to be particularly "religious".

I respectfully disagree with everything you just said there.

 

[FireDragon76]

Orthodox desire to deny assurance of salvation so they can manipulate people into holiness on their terms. There is a lack of respect for the individual conscience.

 

[Oldmantook]

The Prodigal was always the father's son and was never disowned, just presumed dead.

He took his inheritance and left, he didn't exactly lose it, he just foolishly spent it.

Pay attention to Jesus' own words. Jesus twice stated in Luke 15:24,32 that the prodigal was dead but is ALIVE AGAIN. When Jesus repeats something, it is for emphasis and/or the main point of his teaching. The prodigal never physically died so "dead" can only refer to spiritual death. Thus when the prodigal squandered his inheritance on rebellious living, he died spiritually and was LOST. When he repented, returned to his father seeking forgiveness, he was made ALIVE AGAIN. When an unsaved person comes to Christ, he is made alive in Christ (first time). If that believer should then practice sin/habitually sin as the prodigal did, that believer becomes lost/spiritually dead. However, if like the prodigal, he/she repents and returns to the Father, he/she is found and made ALIVE AGAIN.

 

[tdidymas]

I would say probably not since God is the final judge or I might become an Apostate. What do you think?

If you are worried about becoming apostate, or don't believe in the doctrine of justification by faith alone, then IMO you will not be able to become assured. I'm telling you about my 40 years of experience as a Christian, this is part of my testimony. The way I became fully assured was that I sought the truth of it desperately for years, reading and studying the scripture, and seeking strong and lasting peace with God in my relationship with Him. I wanted to experience Rom. 8:16, and it wasn't enough for me just to see the words and take it at face value. I wanted to feel assured from God, and hear the Spirit speaking to me as the verse says.

I saw the scripture exhorting me to be assured - 1 John 5:12, Rom. 8:1, 2 Pet. 1:10, and others. I really like Heb. 6:19 "This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil" - notice it says "sure and steadfast." IOW, certain. Assured. This is the essence of the "sabbath rest" which he talks about in this epistle. Since I have experienced it, I can confidently say that this rest, which is assurance, is obtainable. I believe God has promised it, and it can only be obtained by faith, since it comes from the Spirit as a divine act and gift.
TD

 

[FireDragon76]

Pay attention to Jesus' own words. Jesus twice stated in Luke 15:24,32 that the prodigal was dead but is ALIVE AGAIN. When Jesus repeats something, it is for emphasis and/or the main point of his teaching. The prodigal never physically died so "dead" can only refer to spiritual death. Thus when the prodigal squandered his inheritance on rebellious living, he died spiritually and was LOST. When he repented, returned to his father seeking forgiveness, he was made ALIVE AGAIN. When an unsaved person comes to Christ, he is made alive in Christ (first time). If that believer should then practice sin/habitually sin as the prodigal did, that believer becomes lost/spiritually dead. However, if like the prodigal, he/she repents and returns to the Father, he/she is found and made ALIVE AGAIN.

I have to disagree as a Lutheran, I do not accept the idea that sins can separate us from God, because Jesus has paid for the sins of the entire world.

I am a child of God. That was sealed in my baptism, that is where my faith rests, not in my own works. We do not cooperate with God in our justification.

 

[Thess]

"with fear and trembling" would seem to denote the opposite of assurance would it not?

Not in the least. This is what happens when God allows you to feel a portion of His Almighty Power. When He saves you from dying a death of evil terror, quickly working you through the agony, and within minutes placing you into the greatest peace and love that words cannot describe, this is when you experience an incredibly healthy fear of our Powerful Creator. You know you are loved because He did not kill you, but saved your life through indescribable love. The trembling exists because for the first time, you realize that you are absolutely nothing, and this sends you into utter and total awe. Because I have literally experienced fear and trembling, this wonderfully gives me 100% assurance. In fact, I don't just believe in Jesus, I [know] Jesus because of this fear and trembling. Our God is extremely serious and Powerful.

 

[Oldmantook]

I have to disagree as a Lutheran, I do not accept the idea that sins can separate us from God, because Jesus has paid for the sins of the entire world.

I am a child of God. That was sealed in my baptism, that is where my faith rests, not in my own works. We do not cooperate with God in our justification.

You are entitled to believe whatever you wish but as I plainly pointed out in the parable of the prodigal, Jesus' own words contradicts your belief.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Is there something in the Bible about assurance of final salvation?

"I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day" (1 Timothy 1:12).

There is a good book which is downloadable as a PDF. It is called "An Alarm To The Unconverted" By Joseph Alleine. This is a comprehensive study on what true conversion to Christ is and what it is not. If you want to be sure about your conversion to Christ, I recommend you download it and read it through. You will find the link to it on Google.

It was first published in 1671, and the latest update was in 1999. It takes all the guesswork out of it and really makes you know whether you are truly converted or not, and what to do if you find that you need to do more to ensure that your conversion is genuine.

 

[PaulCyp1]

You are correct. Every person, no matter how committed to Jesus Christ, still has the option of turning away and forfeiting salvation at any time up to the moment of death.

 

[Creation_Aplogetics]

Colossuana 1:21 - 23, "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, andwhich was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[Not David]

The holy fathers of the Church say that we can have assurance of our salvation only by divine revelation from God. Otherwise, we cannot be the source of our assurance. Moreover, we cannot improperly interpret the Scriptures to give ourselves the impression that we are assured of our salvation. What I've seen many people do is say, "Look at this Scripture. It plainly says that you're saved!" No, brother, you're deceived. You interpret it very incorrectly. Who are you to pronounce a judgment on yourself or others? That is God's task, not yours. Otherwise, "hope that is seen is not hope" of salvation; such a faith is based on human rationalism, erroneous interpretation of the Scriptures, and self-assurance rather than God's assurance.

When over 2000 years of theologians say that there is no assurance of salvation apart from a personal divine revelation (not through the Scriptures), and when many say, "No one man can be right by himself on matters of dogma", then I must put my trust in the consensus of holy pious teachers of the faith, rather than renegades who were so puffed up in their minds that they created their own denominations.

How do you know you are at least in the right path?

 

[corinth77777]

Salvation from what?
Who is salvation
What is the difference between salvation and being saved?
How many times can you be saved?


"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

 

[redleghunter]

Not quite.

Indeed, we receive the Spirit whereby we become the children of God and co-heirs with Christ.

But notice the contingency attached to the inheritance: "if indeed we suffer with Him".

And remember the parable of the prodigal son and the good Father. This son was an heir of his Father's goods, but he squandered his portion and was essentially "lost" and "dead" to his Father. It was only upon his repentance and continual abiding with the Father that he was restored to his former status of "son" and received an inheritance again. So, take note, the son lost both his inheritance and sonship upon departing from the Father.

I think you are getting a bit too much mileage from that parable. Before the son even repented the father ran out to greet him and have him robes and a party set.

I would consider your overall response a shrug of Romans 8.

Yes I know EOs love to focus on suffering. A lot of us do because it frankly really happens. One does not need to go out and buy their personal mendicant kit and flagellation set. As suffering will find you.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think you are getting a bit too much mileage from that parable. Before the son even repented the father ran out to greet him and have him robes and a party set.

I would consider your overall response a shrug of Romans 8.

Yes I know EOs love to focus on suffering. A lot of us do because it frankly really happens. One does not need to go out and buy their personal mendicant kit and flagellation set. As suffering will find you.

That's the Orthodox mentality. They put asceticism on a pedestal. There were even Orthodox holy men that lived on pillars up in the air and other vainglorious activities, seeking to storm heaven through sheer human will.

 

[CodyFaith]

I have it. So yeah it is. I have eternal life, never to lose it. Jesus's blood pays the price for all my past, present and future sins. If you trust and believe the same thing, with an honest heart before God, he can give you such assurance aswell if you let him.

We can be our own worst enemies.

 

[redleghunter]

That's the Orthodox mentality. They put asceticism on a pedestal. There were even Orthodox holy men that lived on pillars up in the air and other vainglorious activities, seeking to storm heaven through sheer human will.

Yet I compare such human efforts with a man like St Anthony who did not need to create his own suffering. Athanasius as well. He suffered for the Gospel.

When one preaches Christ’s Gospel pure the fiery darts come from all directions.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yet I compare such human efforts with a man like St Anthony who did not need to create his own suffering. Athanasius as well. He suffered for the Gospel.

When one preaches Christ’s Gospel pure the fiery darts come from all directions.

That's one reason I think Orthodox saints like Mother Maria of Paris are far more compelling. Her suffering was a consequence of meeting concrete human needs. Likewise, St. Therese of Lisieux's spirituality is far closer to our own religious tradition, that vocation need not be grandiose.


Maria Skobtsova - Wikipedia

 

[redleghunter]

General comment.

In Romans 8 we see those who are in Christ have assurance. Romans 8 does early on show what attributes are present for this assurance and later shows God’s Sovereignty in providing and equipping us.

As I mentioned earlier, I don’t think an individual Christian can acknowledge or know this assurance unless they are truly living in the Spirit by walking in Him.

This is what we call Sanctification. We are progressively conformed to the Image of Christ. The assurance is God said He would do it. As He Justified us and will Glorify us.

This is no check list to holiness. But the very desire to be holy like He is.

If we know His love and we love Him, we will love each other as He loved us. I know quite a standard, therefore praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ He gave His all for us.

 

[eleos1954]

I don't believe in faith alone.

The thief on the cross (faith alone). God looks on the condition of the heart and only He knows the heart.

1 Kings 8:39

then hear in heaven your dwelling place and forgive and act and render to each whose heart you know, according to all his ways (for you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind),

God Bless.

 

[AFrazier]

I would say probably not since God is the final judge or I might become an Apostate. What do you think?

Maybe this has come up already. Maybe not. Assurance of salvation is through faith, which works by love. By that true love demonstrated in deed, we know that we walk according to the truth, and will have assurance of salvation, even in our doubts, for God is greater than our conscience.

Galatians 5:6 — For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 John 3:18-20 — My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.