Is anyone in Heaven?

[mqf]

Hello all, I don't know if this has been discussed before but I was listening to a call in radio broadcast today regarding the Bible and a call came in about what happens when we die. The person answering questions was quite definite in his belief that when we die, we go to sleep and do not awake again till Christ returns and calls us into Heaven. Essentially he was saying there is no one in Heaven, not one christian believer and by that same logic there would not be one sinner in Hell. His used the Bible to support his position and I do agree that those scriptures could be interpreted that way but for some reason, I do not believe he is right. Would sinners go right to hell when they die, then come forward at a future time for judgement only to be tossed into the lake of fire? What happens when we die? Are our saved loved ones just slumbering in unconciousness until the final resurrection?

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

The thief on the cross was in paradise the very same day he was crucified. So it would seem that our souls go straight to heaven or hell.

Also, if you read the book of Revelation you see that it says in many places that the dead saints are in heaven.

 

[mqf]

Yes, I have read Revelation and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between imagery and factual. Also, if the answer to the question is that easy, why then do so many pastors and teachers believe that we just sleep???

 

[zeke37]

maybe because they have not read or received Rev.
Abraham Isaac and Jacob all live...

with Lazarus and the rich man,
the rich man was even able to communicate after death, with Abraham.

folks misunderstand a few things like Acts,
where it says no one has gone to heaven, save Jesus.

that means something a little different than what most preachers teach.

it means that not even David, their great king,
did not do what Christ did, and does not have the ability to go where Jesus goes,
to the Throne of God, as the Power of God.

no man can do that.
Jesus went there on His own, ASCENDED on His own.....
while David relies on Him, as we all do

 

[dysert]

Soul sleep is not biblical. A few passages immediately come to mind in support of this position:

• Jesus' words to the thief on the cross ("Today you will be with me in Paradise")
• The fact that the rich man communicated with Abraham after death (Luke 16).
• Elijah and Moses appearing on the Mount of Transfiguration.
• The conscious souls in heaven right now (Rev. 6:9-10).
• The promise that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:6-8).

 

[football5680]

Before Jesus this would be halfway true. Other than Elijah and Enoch nobody before Jesus came went to heaven, including even people like Abraham. Everybody regardless of how good or bad they were would go to Sheol which is basically the Jewish word for the realm of the dead. But there were two separate areas of Sheol. One was paradise where the righteous go, and the other was what we think of hell today where you will pay for your sins.

When Jesus was crucified and died he did not go to heaven, he went to Sheol. The Messiah had to come to earth before they could ascend to heaven. So now this paradise portion of Sheol has no purpose because we can enter heaven directly after our death and we don't need to await judgment.

When Jesus told the other man on the cross he would be with him in paradise, he wasn't talking about Heaven because if he was then he would be contradicting himself. When Mary Magdalene touched him he said he had not yet ascended to the Father.

 

[Jig]

When you die, you go to Sheol. Nothing has changed. We await our future resurrection.

Our eternal life with God will be on the New Earth. Since this Earth is still here, no one is there yet. The same can be said about the Lake of Fire, no one is there yet.

 

[Elder 111]

Hello all, I don't know if this has been discussed before but I was listening to a call in radio broadcast today regarding the Bible and a call came in about what happens when we die. The person answering questions was quite definite in his belief that when we die, we go to sleep and do not awake again till Christ returns and calls us into Heaven. Essentially he was saying there is no one in Heaven, not one christian believer and by that same logic there would not be one sinner in Hell. His used the Bible to support his position and I do agree that those scriptures could be interpreted that way but for some reason, I do not believe he is right. Would sinners go right to hell when they die, then come forward at a future time for judgement only to be tossed into the lake of fire? What happens when we die? Are our saved loved ones just slumbering in unconciousness until the final resurrection?

You did not give an indication of the texts that was used to say that no one was in hell or heaven, neither did you give any to support that the dead are in hell or heaven. Can you do that?
But I must let you know that the dead are all asleep waiting for the call of God. 1 Thess. 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Elder 111]

The thief on the cross was in paradise the very same day he was crucified. So it would seem that our souls go straight to heaven or hell.

Also, if you read the book of Revelation you see that it says in many places that the dead saints are in heaven.

This statement is totally incorrect. Absolutely so.
Look at Luke 23: 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. Move the comma and the text reads differently. I tell you today, you shall be with me. not that you are with me today. Here is why that is so. John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Here 3 days later Jesus says that He has not yet ascended to His Father or indeed heaven. It is therefore impossible for the thief to have been in heaven with Jesus the day he died when Jesus Himself did not go.
Going to hell or heaven at death is not biblical.

 

[Elder 111]

Soul sleep is not biblical. A few passages immediately come to mind in support of this position:

• Jesus' words to the thief on the cross ("Today you will be with me in Paradise")
• The fact that the rich man communicated with Abraham after death (Luke 16).
• Elijah and Moses appearing on the Mount of Transfiguration.
• The conscious souls in heaven right now (Rev. 6:9-10).
• The promise that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:6-8).

1. Jesus did not go to heaven that day.
2. The rich man and Abraham is a parable, symbolic.
3. Elijah did not die and Moses was resurrected. Jude 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
4. Souls under the alter(Rev. 6:9-10). Symbolic.
5. Present with the Lord When? How? Not at death.

 

[Elder 111]

Rev.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
If the wicked dead were in hell, this text should read , and the rest in hell, not the rest of the dead.

 

[dysert]

Elder 111,

1. Jesus did not go to heaven that day. We're not talking about that; we're talking about soul sleep.
2. The rich man and Abraham is a parable, symbolic. Not a parable; not symbolic.
3. Elijah did not die and Moses was resurrected. Jude 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Moses was not resurrected.
4. Souls under the alter(Rev. 6:9-10). Symbolic. Not symbolic.
5. Present with the Lord When? How? Not at death. When we're absent from the body, i.e., when we die.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Rev.
the rest of the dead lived not

i don't know how people don't get this!

if you die and go straight to heaven or hell, then what is the purpose of the ressurection?

Hebrews 9:27(NKJV)
27And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

isn't the "judgment day" yet future?

 

[BlackSepulcher]

i don't know how people don't get this!

if you die and go straight to heaven or hell, then what is the purpose of the ressurection?

Hebrews 9:27(NKJV)
27And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

isn't the "judgment day" yet future?

There are two deaths for the condemned. In the first, you go to your destination. This is the particular judgement. Then you are resurrected and the final judgement is made public, in which accounts are given and reasons for the judgement are made.

For the unsaved, it's just like being arrested for a crime, and then having a trial. For the saved, the soul goes to Heaven, descends back into the body at Judgement to witness the trials, and ascends with the body back to Heaven.

When it's all said and done, the body goes with the soul wherever it should go. Jesus went to Heaven with his body, you see.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

if you die and go straight to heaven or hell, then what is the purpose of the ressurection?

To be reunited with your body.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

If the elect are not in heaven after death awaiting the resurrection of their bodies then how are they gathered by the angels at the second coming?

Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

This statement is totally incorrect. Absolutely so.

Really? What was incorrect about what I said?

 

[Lion King]

Soul sleep is not biblical. A few passages immediately come to mind in support of this position:

• Jesus' words to the thief on the cross ("Today you will be with me in Paradise")

• 
  
  Jesus did not go to paradise when He died on the cross, but descended to Sheol. Paradise is in the third heaven, not "in the earth". By the way, I don't subscribe to the unfounded beliefs that paradise moved from Sheol to heaven.
  
  Personally, I believe Christ told the thief he would be in the paradise of God when the Kingdom of God comes. The Kingdom of God has not physically come yet...
  
  

  The fact that the rich man communicated with Abraham after death (Luke 16).

  
  That was simply a parable. Parables are not meant to be taken literally.
  
  Are the wicked burning in the fires of Sheol right now as we speak as the story of Lazarus and the rich man says?
  
  

  Elijah and Moses appearing on the Mount of Transfiguration.

  
  I believe that was a vision.
  
  And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. Matthew 17:9
  
  The transfiguration of Christ was a vision designed to show a glimpse of the Kingdom of God (Matthew 16:28), a partial view of the second coming of the Son of God in all His glory (Matthew 24:30).
  
  

  The conscious souls in heaven right now (Rev. 6:9-10).

  
  Revelation does say a lot of things regarding heaven. Not sure all of it is meant to be taken literally...
  
  

  The promise that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:6-8).

  
  Yes, our spirits will be with God until the resurrection. However, no one can live in heaven without a celestial body and God won't give out those new bodies until the resurrection of the dead. So, to suggest that there are folks in heaven at the moment, we would have to ignore certain parts of the Scriptures IMO.

 

[Lion King]

If the elect are not in heaven after death awaiting the resurrection of their bodies then how are they gathered by the angels at the second coming?

Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

Everyone will be awaken from their slumber at judgement day.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

Everyone will be awaken from their slumber at judgement day.

No, the elect are in heaven. That is where they are gathered from when Christ returns.

Soul sleep is neither biblical nor what the Jews traditionally believed in.