Is an Open Border Policy a Biblical Mandate?

[rambot]

Jesus never said a country had to have open borders and not be selective in who they let in.

They didn’t change countries. Ireland to Scotland is a change of countries.

They went from Judea to Egypt. Yes, they were both "Ruled" by Caesar.

Ireland and Scotland are both subject to the King of England.

 

[rambot]

Jesus never said a country had to have open borders and not be selective in who they let in.

What Jesus told us to do as people and what he would WANT for us to do as a country are the exact opposite then, I suppose?

 

[rambot]

"If anyone brings with them or carries/tells a false gospel, have nothing to do with them - do not greet them nor share a meal with them nor invite them in, lest you share in their sin" / paraphrased as gently as possible at this point. Also: "Put them out of the assembly" so the assembly is not soiled by evil.

Wow. That has nothing to do with being a guest.

Are you just searching for Biblical verses that justify poor treatment of other humans regardless of reason?

 

[rambot]

Note that a guest can be a devil, can bring a false gospel, and if they bring a false gospel, they are not to be received, accepted, not to share a meal with, nor to even greet,
as God Himself Says,
lest you share in their devilish (false) gospel (of death and destruction)... 'counterfeit gospel'?

Funny that that is your preset...
I ere on the "for some have entertained angels unaware".....and the whole "whatever you do for the least of these". AFAIK, I'd think that would include what is in your heart.

 

[Adam56]

They went from Judea to Egypt. Yes, they were both "Ruled" by Caesar.

Ireland and Scotland are both subject to the King of England.

Ireland is its own country and Scotland is part of the UK.

 

[Adam56]

What Jesus told us to do as people and what he would WANT for us to do as a country are the exact opposite then, I suppose?

No, I don’t think so.

 

[rambot]

Ireland is its own country and Scotland is part of the UK.

Good point!
Wales and Scotland

 

[sprknjc]

What can one read into the Bible and God's word about spam telephone calls which are quite annoying to many of us? The telephone network border blocking many spam and criminal overseas calls is STIR/SHAKEN implemented in recent years, to block especially many international calls with fake caller IDs. There are still mouse holes in such a virtual border, though better implemented by the major carriers vs. smaller carriers as reading this report TNS 2024 Robocall Investigation Report Out Now, Press Release I TNS .

 

[Jan001]

I think Israel has borders when the Creator Says So. (in line with and harmony with all of His Word and Plan in The Messiah Yahshua (Who most of the world willfully rejects) ) .

It seems to me that if Israel has borders and defends them, other countries also have that right. Under the new covenant, there is no distinction or partiality in God's eyes between persons and nationalities.

Acts 10:33-35 Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

Romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and is generous to all who call on him.

 

[Jan001]

Who sets up kingdoms, and who brings them down, as He Pleases ?

The Voice (VOICE)
The Voice Bible Copyright © 2012 Thomas Nelson, Inc. The Voice™ translation © 2012 Ecclesia Bible Society All rights reserved.
4 One day King Nebuchadnezzar sent out a herald with a message for all the peoples, nations, and languages of the earth.

Nebuchadnezzar: Belteshazzar, don’t let my dream or its meaning alarm you. Tell me what you know.

Belteshazzar: My lord, I wish the dream described those who hate you and its meaning concerned the fate of your enemies! 20 The tree you saw in your vision, the one which grew tall and strong so that its top reached up to the sky and could be seen from one end of the earth to the other, 21 the tree whose leaves were beautiful and fruit plentiful and provided sustenance for everyone, the tree under which the wild animals came to rest in the cool shade and in which the birds built their nests on its sturdy branches— 22 that tree is you, O king! You have become great and strong. Your greatness has grown tall and reached the sky; your authority and power extend to the end of the earth. 23 But that is just one part of your dream. The king saw the messenger, the holy watcher of heaven come down from heaven and declare, “Cut down the tree, and destroy it, but leave its stump intact, its roots in the ground, strapped down with iron and bronze, surrounded by the tender grass of the field; let the dew of heaven fall heavy on it every night and make it wet, and let him live among the wild animals off the plants of the earth, until seven times have come and gone.” 24 Here is the interpretation, O king. It is a decree the Most High God has issued against you, my lord and king. 25 You will be driven away from all that is human and live in the company of wild animals; you will be forced to eat grass like oxen, and night after night the dew of heaven will fall on you and make you soaking wet. Seven times will pass until you learn your lesson and acknowledge that it is the Most High God, and no other, who is the true sovereign over all kingdoms on earth, and He grants authority to anyone He wishes. 26 The watcher’s order to leave the stump and roots of the tree intact means that your kingdom will be restored to you when, and only when, you acknowledge that Heaven alone is sovereign over the earth. 27 So, O king, please accept my advice to you. Make a clean break with your sins and invest in what is right. Bring an end to your wicked deeds and show mercy to those you have beaten down. If you do, perhaps your future will be different and your prosperity will continue.
Nebuchadnezzar: Belteshazzar, don’t let my dream or its meaning alarm you. Tell me what you know.



Belteshazzar: My lord, I wish the dream described those who hate you and its meaning concerned the fate of your enemies! 20 The tree you saw in your vision, the one which grew tall and strong so that its top reached up to the sky and could be seen from one end of the earth to the other, 21 the tree whose leaves were beautiful and fruit plentiful and provided sustenance for everyone, the tree under which the wild animals came to rest in the cool shade and in which the birds built their nests on its sturdy branches— 22 that tree is you, O king! You have become great and strong. Your greatness has grown tall and reached the sky; your authority and power extend to the end of the earth. 23 But that is just one part of your dream. The king saw the messenger, the holy watcher of heaven come down from heaven and declare, “Cut down the tree, and destroy it, but leave its stump intact, its roots in the ground, strapped down with iron and bronze, surrounded by the tender grass of the field; let the dew of heaven fall heavy on it every night and make it wet, and let him live among the wild animals off the plants of the earth, until seven times have come and gone.” 24 Here is the interpretation, O king. It is a decree the Most High God has issued against you, my lord and king. 25 You will be driven away from all that is human and live in the company of wild animals; you will be forced to eat grass like oxen, and night after night the dew of heaven will fall on you and make you soaking wet. Seven times will pass until you learn your lesson and acknowledge that it is the Most High God, and no other, who is the true sovereign over all kingdoms on earth, and He grants authority to anyone He wishes. 26 The watcher’s order to leave the stump and roots of the tree intact means that your kingdom will be restored to you when, and only when, you acknowledge that Heaven alone is sovereign over the earth. 27 So, O king, please accept my advice to you. Make a clean break with your sins and invest in what is right. Bring an end to your wicked deeds and show mercy to those you have beaten down. If you do, perhaps your future will be different and your prosperity will continue.

Nebuchadnezzar: Isn’t Babylon a great city? I have built this royal residence from the ground up with my own might and ingenuity to honor my own majesty.
31 The words had scarcely left his lips when another voice thundered from heaven.

Voice: King Nebuchadnezzar, these solemn words are for you. The kingdom has been taken away from you. 32 You will be driven away from all that is human, and you will live in the company of wild animals. You will be forced to eat grass like oxen. Seven times will pass until you learn your lesson and acknowledge that it is the Most High God, and no other, who is the true sovereign over all kingdoms on earth, and He grants authority to anyone He wishes.
33 Instantly the heavenly decree against Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled. He was driven away from all that is human and began to eat grass as oxen do. The dew of heaven fell and drenched his body. In time his hair grew as long as the feathers on an eagle and his nails grew long and curved back on his hand like the claws of a bird.

Message: 34 When these days of exile came to an end, I, Nebuchadnezzar, looked up toward heaven and came to my senses. I blessed the Most High God and praised and gave glory to the One who lives eternally:
“His reign will endure forever;
His kingdom will last from generation to generation.
35 Among all the people of the earth,
there are none who compare.
He does as He wishes with the armies of heaven
and those who live on earth.
No one can stop His hand from acting;
no one dares to ask, ‘What have You done?’”
36 It was in that moment that I came to my senses. Soon my honor and splendor were restored as Daniel predicted, and the former glory of my kingdom returned. Those who had served me before, my advisors and officials, sought me and returned me to the throne of Babylon. In time my kingdom and power grew even greater than it was before. 37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, acknowledge the true King of heaven. I praise, lift up, and glorify Him because all He does is true, all His ways are just, and He is able to cut down those who strut about in their pride."

So, ISTM, according to your posting of this scripture passage, you think people are supposed to be pacifists while their lives are ruined because it is God's will?

If people are trying to harm us or our relatives, this is God's will, so we shouldn't put forward a defense?

I think Jesus told his apostles to take two swords with them to the Garden of Gethsemane so that they could defend themselves and those apostles with them. Peter did not realize, however, that he was not supposed to defend Jesus because Jesus' time had come for him to be crucified.

Luke 22:35-38 He said to them, “When I sent you out without a purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?” 36 They said, “No, not a thing.” He said to them, “But now, the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was counted among the lawless’; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled.” 38 They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” He replied, “It is enough.”

Matthew 26:51-53 Suddenly, one of those with Jesus put his hand on his sword, drew it, and struck the slave of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?

John 18:10-11 Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it, struck the high priest’s slave, and cut off his right ear. The slave’s name was Malchus. 11 Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword back into its sheath. Am I not to drink the cup that the Father has given me?”


This is what happens when millions of people who do not share a country's culture are welcomed into another country by its government for altruistic reasons:

The Camel's Nose In The Tent​

One cold night, as an Arab sat in his tent, a camel gently thrust his nose under the flap and looked in. "Master," he said, "let me put my nose in your tent. It's cold and stormy out here." "By all means," said the Arab, "and welcome" as he turned over and went to sleep.​

A little later the Arab awoke to find that the camel had not only put his nose in the tent but his head and neck also. The camel, who had been turning his head from side to side, said, "I will take but little more room if I place my forelegs within the tent. It is difficult standing out here." "Yes, you may put your forelegs within," said the Arab, moving a little to make room, for the tent was small.​

​

Finally, the camel said, "May I not stand wholly inside? I keep the tent open by standing as I do." "Yes, yes," said the Arab. "Come wholly inside. Perhaps it will be better for both of us." So the camel crowded in. The Arab with difficulty in the crowded quarters again went to sleep. When he woke up the next time, he was outside in the cold and the camel had the tent to himself. Copied and pasted from this Link.​

 

[Jan001]

I am not aware that I or anyone I personally know has done anything prideful or disobedient to the point that our actions are calling down G-d's wrath upon us.

I know I will defend myself and those I love to the best of my ability if we are attacked. I decided this course of action when I was car-jacked at gun-point many years ago. I also learned at that time that I would not feel guilty if the attackers died due to their injuries.

​

Deuteronomy 28:41- You shall have sons and daughters, but they shall not remain yours, for they shall go into captivity. 42 All your trees and the fruit of your ground the cicada shall take over. 43 Aliens residing among you shall ascend above you higher and higher, while you shall descend lower and lower. 44 They shall lend to you but you shall not lend to them; they shall be the head and you shall be the tail. 45 All these curses shall come upon you, pursuing and overtaking you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God, by observing the commandments and the decrees that he commanded you.

 

[returntosender]

If God wanted closed borders, baby Jesus would have been blocked at the Egyptian border and killed by Herod's soldiers.

God knows firsthand the dangers refugees are fleeing from.

And that is what the Bible is showing me.

And he shows me the dangers of letting strangers into my home.

 

[returntosender]

They came into my neighborhood and took over. Stealing, lying, threatening, trespassing. Torture and killing my cats. They ruined their own country and will do the same to yours. They are like a plague. You'll see.

 

[ViaCrucis]

View attachment 344071

If someone leaves Texas and goes to Oklahoma, they aren’t refugees by this definition. That’s the proper analogy I made.

That's a common definition, so is this: Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words, and this: Definition of REFUGEE

But for the sake of argument, let's just agree with you; what would you call the Holy Family taking refuge in Egypt away from Herod? If they aren't refugees, they are what? What's the term you'd use?

Nah, I don’t think it’s wrong. Just because you say it’s wrong doesn’t mean it is.

You're right, just because I say it's wrong doesn't make it wrong.

But according to God's word, it's wrong. According to Jesus Christ, it's wrong. According to two thousand years of Christian moral teaching, it's wrong.

So really, it's a question of whether I should base my understanding of right and wrong on an exterior authority, and if that external authority is reliable? As a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, a member of His Holy Church, I believe that certain external authorities are reliable: Chief among them being Holy and Sacred Scripture, comprised of the Old and New Testament Canons, based upon the received tradition of the Church on the authority, infallibility, and primacy of the Scriptures as the rule and norm of Christian faith, practice, and morals.

And according to the Scriptures it is of chief importance to God how we treat other people, especially the least of these; and among these include the foreigner. It is of such great importance that Christ tells us that at His coming in Judgment how we regard and treat the least of these is how we shall be judged. And St. James in his epistle condemns showing partiality, and rebukes the wickedness of the tongue which can simultaneously offer praise to God while cursing our neighbor made in His image. Throughout the Scriptures the treatment of others, not only by our actions and words, but also the internal disposition of our heart, is a matter of great importance to God. By this we are marked as God's people, it is a matter of righteousness, of holiness, and devotion to God.

True religion, says St. James, is in how we act toward the fatherless and the widow. And, surely we ought to remember also the words of Christ our God in His condemnation of religious hypocrites to whom He talks about washing only the outside of the cup, or who are white-washed sepulchers.

Ultimately, as I see it, this boils down to something very simple: Is Jesus Christ Lord? And if He is, then shouldn't that mean something? Or is our religiosity just a facade, something we can use to bully others with whom we disagree; something cheap and tacky that makes us feel better about ourselves, which demands nothing of us, which costs us nothing, but which we can use to seek our flesh and continue to be collaborators with the devil, with death, and our own willful destruction ending in wrath and judgment? Grace ought to compel us to service and a life of grace; but if grace isn't reason enough to seek a life of righteousness in light of God's love for us sinners; then surely the wrath and judgment of God ought to cause us to pause and wonder about our intentions. Or shall we not fear God? Shall we neither love nor fear God, neither shall we take seriously the grace we have received in His Gospel; nor take seriously the commands He has given that we should live rightly and humbly? If our religion is merely a nicely polished sepulcher--with nothing living but only death within--then it is worthless religious, good only as kindling for the Day of Judgment.

And yet, St. Paul beheld trouble that would beset the Church, "For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of religion, but denying its power."

I pray for a Church that would both love and fear God. Where the word of God is proclaimed boldly and without compromise. Where grace is preached, and repentance, that we should grieve and sorrow over our sin, and make sincere and contrite confession before God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Belk]

They came into my neighborhood and took over. Stealing, lying, threatening, trespassing. Torture and killing my cats. They ruined their own country and will do the same to yours. They are like a plague. You'll see.

 

[Adam56]

But according to God's word, it's wrong. According to Jesus Christ, it's wrong. According to two thousand years of Christian moral teaching, it's wrong.

There is nowhere in the Bible that says wanting a stricter immigration policy is wrong.

 

[Jan001]

That's a common definition, so is this: Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words, and this: Definition of REFUGEE

But for the sake of argument, let's just agree with you; what would you call the Holy Family taking refuge in Egypt away from Herod? If they aren't refugees, they are what? What's the term you'd use?



You're right, just because I say it's wrong doesn't make it wrong.

But according to God's word, it's wrong. According to Jesus Christ, it's wrong. According to two thousand years of Christian moral teaching, it's wrong.

So really, it's a question of whether I should base my understanding of right and wrong on an exterior authority, and if that external authority is reliable? As a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, a member of His Holy Church, I believe that certain external authorities are reliable: Chief among them being Holy and Sacred Scripture, comprised of the Old and New Testament Canons, based upon the received tradition of the Church on the authority, infallibility, and primacy of the Scriptures as the rule and norm of Christian faith, practice, and morals.

And according to the Scriptures it is of chief importance to God how we treat other people, especially the least of these; and among these include the foreigner. It is of such great importance that Christ tells us that at His coming in Judgment how we regard and treat the least of these is how we shall be judged. And St. James in his epistle condemns showing partiality, and rebukes the wickedness of the tongue which can simultaneously offer praise to God while cursing our neighbor made in His image. Throughout the Scriptures the treatment of others, not only by our actions and words, but also the internal disposition of our heart, is a matter of great importance to God. By this we are marked as God's people, it is a matter of righteousness, of holiness, and devotion to God.

True religion, says St. James, is in how we act toward the fatherless and the widow. And, surely we ought to remember also the words of Christ our God in His condemnation of religious hypocrites to whom He talks about washing only the outside of the cup, or who are white-washed sepulchers.

Ultimately, as I see it, this boils down to something very simple: Is Jesus Christ Lord? And if He is, then shouldn't that mean something? Or is our religiosity just a facade, something we can use to bully others with whom we disagree; something cheap and tacky that makes us feel better about ourselves, which demands nothing of us, which costs us nothing, but which we can use to seek our flesh and continue to be collaborators with the devil, with death, and our own willful destruction ending in wrath and judgment? Grace ought to compel us to service and a life of grace; but if grace isn't reason enough to seek a life of righteousness in light of God's love for us sinners; then surely the wrath and judgment of God ought to cause us to pause and wonder about our intentions. Or shall we not fear God? Shall we neither love nor fear God, neither shall we take seriously the grace we have received in His Gospel; nor take seriously the commands He has given that we should live rightly and humbly? If our religion is merely a nicely polished sepulcher--with nothing living but only death within--then it is worthless religious, good only as kindling for the Day of Judgment.

And yet, St. Paul beheld trouble that would beset the Church, "For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of religion, but denying its power."

I pray for a Church that would both love and fear God. Where the word of God is proclaimed boldly and without compromise. Where grace is preached, and repentance, that we should grieve and sorrow over our sin, and make sincere and contrite confession before God.

-CryptoLutheran

So, if these "refugees" come to steal, kill, destroy, and outlaw Christianity, is that God's will? We should not prevent them from coming in?

 

[Desk trauma]

So, if these "refugees" come to steal, kill, destroy, and outlaw Christianity, is that God's will? We should not prevent them from coming in?

Well that’s a new one.

 

[Jan001]

Well that’s a new one.

When non-Christian immigrants enter a country and their birthrate is higher than the native population, the immigrant population will eventually impose its own culture and religion on the native population.

For example:

Original Muslim Countries in 7th century after conquering them

Muslim immigration world map

 

[Desk trauma]

When non-Christian immigrants enter a country and their birthrate is higher than the native population, the immigrant population will eventually impose its own culture and religion on the native population.

For example:

Original Muslim Countries in 7th century after conquering them

Muslim immigration world map

The majority of illegal immigrants are Christians coming from countries with higher religiosity than the US. I suppose you could try scaremongering about the wrong type of Christianity if you’re interested in accuracy…