Is an afterlife purely imaginary?

[3sigma]

What would be the benefit to doing this? I believe in an afterlife. If there is one after I die, then great! If not, what was the downside of my going through life believing it?

This appears to be a variation on Pascal’s wager. What’s the harm in believing imaginary nonsense if you find it comforting? Well, let’s see…

I’m guessing that belief in an afterlife is not the only belief you hold that something is real without a shred of sound, objective evidence to support it. Once you relinquish your ability to think critically, you leave yourself open to making decisions that can cause unnecessary harm to yourself and others. Some people decide to shackle their children’s minds by denying evolution and teaching them creationism then they try to force that on the children of others. Some people deny their children medical help resulting in their death. Others decide to oppose stem cell research or become anti-vaccination proponents (not necessarily the result of religious belief, but a failure of critical thinking nonetheless). Still others decide to become suicide bombers or to fly planes into buildings.

Believing in imaginary nonsense is a failure of critical thinking, which can lead to all kinds of unnecessary harm.

I wonder, though, if any of the non-believers in an afterlife, have an NDE and then become believers in an afterlife.

Yes, there are some who do this, but then most people are credulous. Just because they believe it doesn’t make it true. To demonstrate that one would need something a little more substantial than the dreams and hallucinations of a dying brain.

 

[Split Rock]

Chuck Missler calls that "spread-spectrum design".

I love that term.

By writing the Bible in spread-spectrum design, you can randomly tear a page out and still get all the major doctrines of the Bible.

To put it the way Chuck Missler puts it:

The Bible was written in spread-spectrum design, which makes It immune to hostile jamming.

I guess if Chuck Missler says it, it must be so!

Also, I wonder why God worried about "hostile jamming" when you have told us time and time again that the Bible will always be transcribed and translated perfectly, by divine order? Sounds like another contradiction in your theology...

 

[Spacewyrm]

This is what I don’t understand about religious believers. Why can’t you overcome your fear of death and just accept that this life is all you have? Why do you need to pretend that you will never really die to help you cope with life? Are you really so insecure that you can’t function normally without believing some comforting nonsense? I really don’t understand the need for it. I accept the inevitable reality that one day I’m going to die and that will be a permanent end to my consciousness and existence. I’m not eager to die, but I can’t escape it so there is no point in worrying about it. I just accept it. Why can’t you and other religious believers do that?

Seriously? Just because you have accepted that death = oblivion without trouble, doesn't mean it's so easy for the rest of us. Do you really have such a shallow understanding of human psychology? I'm sure everyone wishes that they had such a steely composure and god-like self-mastery that they never have despaired over the thought of eventually not existing or can just stop feeling that way because "there's no point worrying about it".

I don't believe in an afterlife, and I've come to accept it. However I used to. Even so, there was a time, even when I was a Christian, that I was deeply afraid of death (even though I thought I believed in Heaven, I don't think I really truly believed it). But, it was hard for me to accept that Heaven probably isn't real because I had always hoped for eternal life since it had been instilled into me from a young age that such was waiting for me after death. It still bothers me sometimes. I agree that it doesn't make sense to worry about that which is inevitable, but c'mon, what ever gave you the notion that human emotion had a tendency to line up with what makes sense? The human mind will do strange things to avoid pain, and a strong emotion will readily override reason, even when someone is aware that what they believe makes no sense. Have you really never experienced this, even briefly? If so, I really truly envy you.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

This appears to be a variation on Pascal’s wager. What’s the harm in believing imaginary nonsense if you find it comforting? Well, let’s see…

I’m guessing that belief in an afterlife is not the only belief you hold that something is real without a shred of sound, objective evidence to support it. Once you relinquish your ability to think critically, you leave yourself open to making decisions that can cause unnecessary harm to yourself and others. Some people decide to shackle their children’s minds by denying evolution and teaching them creationism then they try to force that on the children of others. Some people deny their children medical help resulting in their death. Others decide to oppose stem cell research or become anti-vaccination proponents (not necessarily the result of religious belief, but a failure of critical thinking nonetheless). Still others decide to become suicide bombers or to fly planes into buildings.

Believing in imaginary nonsense is a failure of critical thinking, which can lead to all kinds of unnecessary harm.

First off, I don't believe in the afterlife without a shred of evidence or critical thought. While I can't prove the existence of an afterlife to your satisfaction, you also cannot prove the lack of an afterlife. I didn't come to this belief without thought, and I think it's a bit of a reach to assume that I have relinquished my ability to think critically. Would you really say that only atheists who don't believe in an afterlife are able to think critically?

This post reads a bit like a slippery slope too, with the notion that belief in the afterlife leads to creationism, denying kids medical help and then finally to blowing up buildings. It's like arguing that gay marriage will lead to people marrying their hamsters or something like that.

 

[3sigma]

The human mind will do strange things to avoid pain, and a strong emotion will readily override reason, even when someone is aware that what they believe makes no sense. Have you really never experienced this, even briefly?

On rare occasions when I was young, a flash of anger would override my reason for a moment, but I can’t remember the last time that occurred. There hasn’t been a time when my reason was overridden by emotion day in and day out for years on end—as it is with religious believers who believe in an afterlife—since I stopped believing in Santa Claus at the age of four. I may have feared death when I was a child, but if I did, I grew out of it before my teens and there was never a time when I believed in an afterlife. I remember having suspected viral meningitis when I was twelve and not being particularly concerned that I may die. I know now that it is rarely fatal, but, at the time, the headache was so bad I thought I was going to die. Then it worsened and I wished I would die. It seems to me that people who believe in an afterlife have never outgrown their childhood fears.

 

[3sigma]

First off, I don't believe in the afterlife without a shred of evidence or critical thought. While I can't prove the existence of an afterlife to your satisfaction, you also cannot prove the lack of an afterlife. I didn't come to this belief without thought, and I think it's a bit of a reach to assume that I have relinquished my ability to think critically. Would you really say that only atheists who don't believe in an afterlife are able to think critically?

Now you’ve resorted to the same faulty tactics used by so many other religious believers. And the conversation started out so promisingly, too.

First, I said you don’t have a shred of sound, objective evidence that an afterlife is real. Why did you omit those two adjectives? If you think you have some sound, objective evidence to support your belief then let’s have it.

Second, you resort to the old chestnut of demanding I prove the non-existence of something before you will relinquish your belief in it. One should proportion one’s belief to the evidence. Zero sound, objective evidence should mean zero belief.

Third, you again omit an adjective when you say you didn’t come to this belief without thought. I’m guessing you thought about it, but you didn’t think critically about it otherwise you wouldn’t believe it.

Finally, you resort to a straw man by implying that I would say that only atheists are capable of critical thought. I wouldn’t say that and I suspect you think critically about other things in your work and your life, but you don’t think critically about your religious beliefs otherwise you wouldn’t still hold them.

I’m disappointed. You’ve already stated the reason you believe in an afterlife is because you fear a permanent death. Why are you now trying to claim that you thought critically about it? Believing something is real without a shred of sound, objective evidence to support that belief is not thinking critically about it. I suspect you also believe your God is real despite there being zero sound, objective evidence to support that belief either. The very nature of religious beliefs and religious faith means that people do not think critically about them. Believing in imaginary nonsense is a failure of critical thinking.

This post reads a bit like a slippery slope too, with the notion that belief in the afterlife leads to creationism, denying kids medical help and then finally to blowing up buildings. It's like arguing that gay marriage will lead to people marrying their hamsters or something like that.

It was not meant to be a progression. I was just giving other examples of the harm that can be caused by believing in imaginary nonsense and failing to think critically.

 

[Jnwaco]

Fine. 3sigma, prove to me that George Bush was president prior to Obama. I'll await your proof, but I won't hold my breath. I'll check back in tomorrow to see how you're progressing.

 

[Spacewyrm]

On rare occasions when I was young, a flash of anger would override my reason for a moment, but I can’t remember the last time that occurred. There hasn’t been a time when my reason was overridden by emotion day in and day out for years on end—as it is with religious believers who believe in an afterlife—since I stopped believing in Santa Claus at the age of four. I may have feared death when I was a child, but if I did, I grew out of it before my teens and there was never a time when I believed in an afterlife. I remember having suspected viral meningitis when I was twelve and not being particularly concerned that I may die. I know now that it is rarely fatal, but, at the time, the headache was so bad I thought I was going to die. Then it worsened and I wished I would die. It seems to me that people who believe in an afterlife have never outgrown their childhood fears.

And not everyone is the same psychologically. So, does it really come as a surprise that some people let emotion override reason, even for years at a time? It shouldn't, if you pay attention at all to the way people act. Believing in an afterlife feels good, and people like to feel good, and people are taught to believe such things at a very early age, and everyone around seems to agree or think you're weird if you don't agree, and most people can't really be bothered to think critically about a lot of stuff anyway, and even when they can a lot of people let stubbornness get in the way of letting go of a long-held belief, and then there is the fear of Hell some people have instilled in them at a young age that stopps the critical thought process concerning religion before it can even get started, and for some people, the thought of never being able to see cherished loved ones again who have died is just too painful to even consider, and as I've said the human brain will do strange things to avoid emotional stress and pain. These are just a few of the factors involved here. So, it doesn't really take a lot of imagination to see why people believe things like an afterlife. Most people just don't think scientifically, as much as that may annoy me sometimes, but they seem to get along in life just fine.

 

[3sigma]

Fine. 3sigma, prove to me that George Bush was president prior to Obama. I'll await your proof, but I won't hold my breath. I'll check back in tomorrow to see how you're progressing.

What would be the point of my complying with this ridiculous request? The mere fact that you are making such a ridiculous request suggests you are being intellectually dishonest. Almost everyone here knows that there is ample sound, objective evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that George W. Bush was president prior to Barack Obama. There are innumerable government records, probably thousands of hours of video and probably millions of photographs you could find to confirm this so why would you make such a request? Sure, you could refuse to accept any sound evidence I presented and deny that Bush was the president before Obama the way creationists refuse to accept evidence and deny evolution, but that would only prove that you were being irrational and unreasonable.

Let’s see you produce similar evidence supporting your beliefs that an afterlife or your God are real.

 

[3sigma]

So, does it really come as a surprise that some people let emotion override reason, even for years at a time? It shouldn't, if you pay attention at all to the way people act.

No, it isn’t surprising: it’s disappointing. It is disappointing that so many people appear unable to outgrow or overcome their childhood fears and cling to beliefs that are patent nonsense.

 

[Spacewyrm]

No, it isn’t surprising: it’s disappointing. It is disappointing that so many people appear unable to outgrow or overcome their childhood fears and cling to beliefs that are patent nonsense.

Ah, well then, you should try lowering your expectations, then you won't be so dissapointed.

On a serious note, I feel I should say that I don't think belief in the afterlife is entirely about fear of death for most people. I really think that most people either are indoctrinated into religious beliefs as children or simply don't have a particularly sceptical mind, so religious messages which sound good can be easily accepted by someone who feels that life should have some sort of deep meaning. And even sceptics can have their blind spots or have subjective experience that leads them to find some unevidenced beliefs appealing. It seems to me that most people are hard-wired to look for deep spiritual meanings and such in existence so we tend to find them, even when they are perhaps not really there. The notion of eternal life strikes me as a bonus that comes with other beliefs. When you consider how weird cognition is, the notion of spirits and such seems sort of understandable (less so once you start to understand how the brain works...) Though I admit, that's just some speculation and armchair psychology on my part.

Letting go of afterlife beliefs, though, is probably more a matter of fearing death. At least, that was true of me. When you start out believing in eternal life, the notion of a final death can be downright terrifying! It must be different to a person who's never believed in an afterlife in the first place, I suppose.