Is an actively gay person who believes in Jesus saved?

[Xalith]

I ask this, mainly because I grew up as a Christian, left the faith, and was an atheist up until very recently. Like last week recently. Something happened and I honestly felt the presence of Jesus. Not just words in a book, but His presence. Like the presence of the Holy Spirit was before me or something, I've never had such a thing happen.

So, here I am...and it's hard for me to see God turning his back on people who are lost, maybe. When people reject the Bible, it's not out of malice, it's often because they have never experienced God in their lives, so a book seems flat and uninviting. I have a hard time with the concepts of heaven and hell, personally, but you're right, the Bible says certain things that separate believers from non believers.

May I ask, do you preach the Gospel in your everyday life? I believe we should let our actual lives of joy and peace be a good ''witness,'' too.

I'm glad to hear that you've turned back to Him again.

God does not turn His back on people who are lost. On the contrary, Jesus is constantly yelling in their ear, "WAKE UP!". He is right there beside each and every one of us, you, me, Christians, Unbelievers, Atheists, Buddhists, etc. There's one thing that Jesus refuses to do: break our free will.

He will not do anything that would deny us of our free will; we must choose to turn towards Him, and His heart aches day after day when He sees an unrepentant or unbelieving person continuing day after day in their sins. He wants to save them, but He can't, because He must follow the rules too.

So, a Gay person who is continuing to practice homosexuality is not saved due to several passages that have already been linked in this thread. Jesus is right there, Jesus has not forsaken these people, He's waiting for them to turn away from their sin.

Unbelief is tragic enough... what is even more tragic is to believe in Him, but yet for someone to claim they love Him, but yet not do the things He says to do (Repentance and making an effort turning away from sin). Nobody is going to be perfect... however if you choose to continue in a sinful lifestyle (such as homosexuality, but it is far from the only sinful habit that people have) without even trying to turn away from it, then you are in disobedience to His commands.

If you love Him, you will do the things He says to do. He gave us 3 commands:

1). Love God
2). Love everyone else as yourself
3). Repent

Everything else falls into those things. You can't claim you're repentant while willfully continuing in something you know is a habitual sin. There's a difference between continuing in a habitual sin and occasionally falling to temptation and repenting afterward, though.

He's standing/sitting/hovering right next to you. He sees everything you do, yes, He's standing nearby when you commit sin and it must grieve Him greatly when someone is a believer but yet has unrepentant sin in their lives, because He knows He can't do anything until they turn away from their sin, or at least try to, or at the very least, feel sorry that they're sinning.

 

[LaSorcia]

Romans 10:9

 

[Xalith]

I think there are two questions. The question you posed is certainly one (and it evokes other situations, such as observing the Sabbath).

I'm pretty sure that there's a difference between knowing it is a sin, and not knowing it is a sin. God has gone to ridiculous lengths (sending His very own Son to the cross) to find ways to redeem us. I doubt he's looking at the book of laws looking for some loophole to condemn you; I rather think the opposite: He's looking for loopholes to save you, but He can only go so far when it comes to someone who knows it is a sin but continues to do it anyways.

But I don't think I heard the OP actually clarify whether we're talking about someone who is actively pursuing the "sin" as a permissible act, rather than the person who acknowledges it as a sin, but one that he cannot consistently overcome.

There is indeed two main discussions here:

1). The first part of that quoted text implies that someone who is afraid it is sin, wants to do it, and finds every itty little tidbit in the Bible to justify themselves and/or the act and/or try to explain why the Bible isn't talking about that. Oh, we've seen the hundreds of posts here in CF where people will wriggle themselves through every tiny loophole they can find to try to explain why the English translations were wrong, they will point out the word "homosexuality" never appears in the KJV, etc etc etc. In the end run, though, the Bible does say homosexuality is perverse and wrong and Paul condemns it in his Epistles.

2). The second part of the quoted text is pointing to someone who wants to overcome the sin, but is not strong enough and/or the Temptation is too strong and they fall to it. I believe this person is saved as long as they try to fight it, and they stay in prayer, and they ask for His help in overcoming it. This person wants to defeat the sin in their life, but every so often they fall to temptation. The Bible does say that no Christian can claim he has no sin in his Earthly Life. Doesn't matter how good you think you are, in fact, the more good you think you are, the more likely you're going to fall.

 

[Steeno7]

It matters not one iota if it is known sin or unknown. Deliberate or "accidental" sin. It all misses the mark of Gods perfect holy character. If it is sin that disqualifies us for salvation, then none of us qualify.

 

[Xalith]

It matters not one iota if it is known sin or unknown. Deliberate or "accidental" sin. It all misses the mark of Gods perfect holy character. If it is sin that disqualifies us for salvation, then none of us qualify.

It makes a difference as far as repentance goes.

If you willfully, knowingly and habitually sin without repentance, then you're not saved, because you'll be one of those people who go "Lord, Lord, did we not do all of these things in Your name?" and He will reply: "Depart from me, you workers of iniquity".

However, if you do something you don't know is a sin, then it won't be counted against you as far as you being unrepentant. Yes, it is still a sin, but He will forgive it knowing that you didn't know it was sin and/or didn't realize you were sinning.

You can't exactly repent for something you didn't know was wrong in the first place, right?

That's why His grace covers. His shed blood on the Cross covers all of our sins -- the sins we know we did, and the sins we didn't even know about.

The sins we know we did? We need to repent for those. We can't just keep doing it and not care we're sinning. That's being unrepentant and being a "worker of iniquity"

 

[Steeno7]

It makes a difference as far as repentance goes.

If you willfully, knowingly and habitually sin without repentance, then you're not saved, because you'll be one of those people who go "Lord, Lord, did we not do all of these things in Your name?" and He will reply: "Depart from me, you workers of iniquity".

However, if you do something you don't know is a sin, then it won't be counted against you as far as you being unrepentant. Yes, it is still a sin, but He will forgive it knowing that you didn't know it was sin and/or didn't realize you were sinning.

You can't exactly repent for something you didn't know was wrong in the first place, right?

That's why His grace covers. His shed blood on the Cross covers all of our sins -- the sins we know we did, and the sins we didn't even know about.

The sins we know we did? We need to repent for those. We can't just keep doing it and not care we're sinning. That's being unrepentant and being a "worker of iniquity"

If your forgiveness is dependent upon you and what you do or don't do, then you have no hope whatsoever.

 

[Xalith]

If your forgiveness is dependent upon you and what you do or don't do, then you have no hope whatsoever.

Everybody is required to make at least the first step.

We have to believe in Jesus and confess that He is Lord, right? You agree that we must do at least that much?

Jesus also talked about Repentance in the Bible. You don't think He did that just for show, do you?

 

[RDKirk]

I'm pretty sure that there's a difference between knowing it is a sin, and not knowing it is a sin. God has gone to ridiculous lengths (sending His very own Son to the cross) to find ways to redeem us. I doubt he's looking at the book of laws looking for some loophole to condemn you; I rather think the opposite: He's looking for loopholes to save you, but He can only go so far when it comes to someone who knows it is a sin but continues to do it anyways.

Oh, yes, for sure. The Lord went through a hell of a lot of trouble--literally--to make our salvation possible. Scripture tells us that God is not neutral on salvation, but is biased toward salvation. And it the same vein, scripture also tells us that God's judgment is based on what we know, not on what we don't know.

And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left...? -- Jonah 4:11

"If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains." -- John 9:41

"But he that knew not, and did worthy things of strokes, shall be beaten with few. For to each man to whom much is given, much shall be required." -- Luke 12:48

It's not what we don't know that would condemn us, it's what we do know that we don't acknowledge.

 

[Svt4Him]

So, let me see if I have this right: You can't save yourself by your deeds, but you can damn yourself by them?

Doesn't sound like honest weights.

So I go to a judge, and tell him that I realize I've murdered someone, but I have done a heck of a lot of good deeds, therefore if he's just, and using 'honest weights' he will excuse my murder. Ya, I'm sure the weight of justice will be balanced and find me innocent. Oh...weight a sec...haha see what I did there...

 

[sickntired771]

Both sides here make good points. I personally am unclear as to whether the bible addresses homosexuality altogether or it is misunderstood and it has to do with idolatry and paganism (I am not going to debate that here) but that's where I am coming from in my discussion on this.

That's why I was wondering if there was a consensus on the gay christian who chooses to excel in every aspect of their life for Christ but does need to find a companion and hence lives in a monogamous gay coupling.

It seems so hard to believe that God would burden someone with this and expect them to be celibate. God said it's good for us to have a partner and what is the gay person supposed to do, live a life alone? It's all very confusing and I pray The Holy Spirit give me guidance on the matter. I do hope gay people are saved by grace or by the fact that mainstream Christianity is wrong on this being a sin.

 

[Steeno7]

Both sides here make good points. I personally am unclear as to whether the bible addresses homosexuality altogether or it is misunderstood and it has to do with idolatry and paganism (I am not going to debate that here) but that's where I am coming from in my discussion on this.

That's why I was wondering if there was a consensus on the gay christian who chooses to excel in every aspect of their life for Christ but does need to find a companion and hence lives in a monogamous gay coupling.

It seems so hard to believe that God would burden someone with this and expect them to be celibate. God said it's good for us to have a partner and what is the gay person supposed to do, live a life alone? It's all very confusing and I pray The Holy Spirit give me guidance on the matter. I do hope gay people are saved by grace or by the fact that mainstream Christianity is wrong on this being a sin.

The Bible certainly addresses it and yes it is sin.

 

[Deidre32]

I'm glad to hear that you've turned back to Him again.

God does not turn His back on people who are lost. On the contrary, Jesus is constantly yelling in their ear, "WAKE UP!". He is right there beside each and every one of us, you, me, Christians, Unbelievers, Atheists, Buddhists, etc. There's one thing that Jesus refuses to do: break our free will.

He will not do anything that would deny us of our free will; we must choose to turn towards Him, and His heart aches day after day when He sees an unrepentant or unbelieving person continuing day after day in their sins. He wants to save them, but He can't, because He must follow the rules too.

So, a Gay person who is continuing to practice homosexuality is not saved due to several passages that have already been linked in this thread. Jesus is right there, Jesus has not forsaken these people, He's waiting for them to turn away from their sin.

Unbelief is tragic enough... what is even more tragic is to believe in Him, but yet for someone to claim they love Him, but yet not do the things He says to do (Repentance and making an effort turning away from sin). Nobody is going to be perfect... however if you choose to continue in a sinful lifestyle (such as homosexuality, but it is far from the only sinful habit that people have) without even trying to turn away from it, then you are in disobedience to His commands.

If you love Him, you will do the things He says to do. He gave us 3 commands:

1). Love God
2). Love everyone else as yourself
3). Repent

Everything else falls into those things. You can't claim you're repentant while willfully continuing in something you know is a habitual sin. There's a difference between continuing in a habitual sin and occasionally falling to temptation and repenting afterward, though.

He's standing/sitting/hovering right next to you. He sees everything you do, yes, He's standing nearby when you commit sin and it must grieve Him greatly when someone is a believer but yet has unrepentant sin in their lives, because He knows He can't do anything until they turn away from their sin, or at least try to, or at the very least, feel sorry that they're sinning.

I don't disagree with Jesus' words, or the passage, what I'm trying to point out is...someone may appear to be maliciously in sin, when really...they don't believe that they are in sin. Only God knows the heart.

Personally, I don't get hung up on telling others that they are living in sin, and get hung up on who is going to heaven or hell. It is like wasting a faith life. If we live our lives loving others, that is what will bring people closer to wanting to know God. I don't say this to you to judge you lol I say it just because that's how I feel about these types of discussions.

 

[Xalith]

I don't disagree with Jesus' words, or the passage, what I'm trying to point out is...someone may appear to be maliciously in sin, when really...they don't believe that they are in sin. Only God knows the heart.

Personally, I don't get hung up on telling others that they are living in sin, and get hung up on who is going to heaven or hell. It is like wasting a faith life. If we live our lives loving others, that is what will bring people closer to wanting to know God. I don't say this to you to judge you lol I say it just because that's how I feel about these types of discussions.

But yet if you love someone, would you truly let them continue to live their lives in sin, without even warning them that what they're doing is wrong?

Proverbs 13:24: He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Now I'm not suggesting we should bring the rod to everybody who sins, but yet at the same time, if we just let someone wallow in their sin unknowingly, and not even attempt to advise them, then can we truly say we love them? We should be encouraging them to turn away from sin and turn towards Christ if we truly love these people.

Now obviously, we're not to make a nuisance of ourselves, standing on the street corner yelling "the end is nigh!" like those people who are usually thought of as crazy loons, but yet when the topic comes up, we are to tell the truth and tell it like it is. Homosexuality is a sin, and saying otherwise is lying. Jesus didn't call us to pussyfoot around with this stuff; He called us to bring souls to the Kingdom of Heaven. How exactly do we do that? By sugar-coating sins and/or not teaching people the ways of holiness?

I don't believe in Gloom & Doom preaching, but yet at the same time, we need to tell the truth. God is Good, and God is Love, but yet there's a point where He puts His foot down and says "Enough". Longsuffering does not mean infinite patience. There's a line there, and we don't want anybody crossing it.

 

[dragongunner]

I am uncertain as to whether God is for or against homosexuality. I don't seek to debate the subject matter but what I want to know is if God judges or heart not our actions.

If someone is actively involved in a gay relationship but accepts Jesus as savior and lives their life as a Christian in every way with this exception are they saved?

I am uncertain because it's different if in ones heart they know it is sin and are in open rebellion verus being uncertain if it is truly sin and being the best Christian they can be otherwise.

He is against it. To be saved requires repentance. Repentance literally means to turn your back on. You can't repent and practice at the same time. It is a sin and those who are practicing it will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

NOTE: WERE….not ARE. People washed, sanctified, justified by Christ and the Holy Spirit to practice sin……? Doesn't work.

 

[Free at Calvary]

It seems so hard to believe that God would burden someone with this and expect them to be celibate. God said it's good for us to have a partner and what is the gay person supposed to do, live a life alone? It's all very confusing and I pray The Holy Spirit give me guidance on the matter. I do hope gay people are saved by grace or by the fact that mainstream Christianity is wrong on this being a sin.

Yes....guidance....amen.

Your sincerity is evident, and if I know God his word would be in your heart with the Spirit of Christ. He will cause you to know you are freed from sin, not to remain in sin but to live unto Christ.

I think you did the "impossible" when you sought God and found him, and will continue to do the impossible and overcome the impossible through Christ. What is impossible with man is possible with God.

Keep your heart turned to him and by faith the victory is yours. Only by grace any of us make it.

 

[Steeno7]

He is against it. To be saved requires repentance. Repentance literally means to turn your back on. You can't repent and practice at the same time. It is a sin and those who are practicing it will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

NOTE: WERE….not ARE. People washed, sanctified, justified by Christ and the Holy Spirit to practice sin……? Doesn't work.

That's right, because those are all describing identities. And Christians all have a new identity. What they were, they will never be again....regardless of what behaviors they may or may not engage in.

 

[Marius27]

It seems so hard to believe that God would burden someone with this and expect them to be celibate. God said it's good for us to have a partner and what is the gay person supposed to do, live a life alone? It's all very confusing and I pray The Holy Spirit give me guidance on the matter. I do hope gay people are saved by grace or by the fact that mainstream Christianity is wrong on this being a sin.

This is a big problem for the anti-gay crowd. Paul and Jesus both talk of celibacy being a gift most people don't have. Jesus says people like gays are born that way. What is Paul's answer to those without the gift of celibacy? Marry/pursue a monogamous committed relationship. If celibacy were an option for everyone or most people, heterosexuals should all be choosing celibacy since Paul wishes they would. So until all heterosexuals commit to a life of celibacy, they're placing a ridiculous double standard on gays.

 

[Marius27]

He is against it. To be saved requires repentance. Repentance literally means to turn your back on. You can't repent and practice at the same time. It is a sin and those who are practicing it will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

NOTE: WERE….not ARE. People washed, sanctified, justified by Christ and the Holy Spirit to practice sin……? Doesn't work.

1 Corinthians isn't referring to homosexuals. You'll notice that the word in question cannot refer to lesbians. And that verse is a modern corruption that didn't add homosexuals until the 1940s. In the earliest uses of the word Paul invented, it referred to economic sins like exploitation. It was never used to refer to sexual vices.

 

[Deidre32]

But yet if you love someone, would you truly let them continue to live their lives in sin, without even warning them that what they're doing is wrong?

Proverbs 13:24: He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Now I'm not suggesting we should bring the rod to everybody who sins, but yet at the same time, if we just let someone wallow in their sin unknowingly, and not even attempt to advise them, then can we truly say we love them? We should be encouraging them to turn away from sin and turn towards Christ if we truly love these people.

Now obviously, we're not to make a nuisance of ourselves, standing on the street corner yelling "the end is nigh!" like those people who are usually thought of as crazy loons, but yet when the topic comes up, we are to tell the truth and tell it like it is. Homosexuality is a sin, and saying otherwise is lying. Jesus didn't call us to pussyfoot around with this stuff; He called us to bring souls to the Kingdom of Heaven. How exactly do we do that? By sugar-coating sins and/or not teaching people the ways of holiness?

I don't believe in Gloom & Doom preaching, but yet at the same time, we need to tell the truth. God is Good, and God is Love, but yet there's a point where He puts His foot down and says "Enough". Longsuffering does not mean infinite patience. There's a line there, and we don't want anybody crossing it.

But, you can't force someone to accept Christ. God doesn't force us to love Him. He wants willing participants. Willing followers. Do you also feel the same zeal about telling heterosexuals when they are 'in sin?'

The scene in the Bible where the town's people were about to stone the woman caught in adultery, was both a reality (and still is in some parts of the world) but also served as a way for us to look at how we throw stones. If you are without sin, throw the first stone. Are you without sin? We are human, and we make mistakes and 'sin,' and for me to tell another person, "hey, I think you might spend eternity in hell because your sin is worse than mine,'' is missing the point of following Christ. Yea, we can share the Gospel, but we can't force anyone to follow Christ. And what may appear to be sin on the outside, we have no idea what that person is struggling with.

This is how I see it, so maybe we need to agree to disagree.

 

[Xalith]

1 Corinthians isn't referring to homosexuals. You'll notice that the word in question cannot refer to lesbians. And that verse is a modern corruption that didn't add homosexuals until the 1940s. In the earliest uses of the word Paul invented, it referred to economic sins like exploitation. It was never used to refer to sexual vices.

Then explain Romans 1:26-27 for me, please?

Paul is clearly condemning homosexual acts here. It says that BOTH women AND men "change the natural use which is against nature" and "burned in their lusts for one another" and God "gave them over to a reprobate mind".