Is Allah the same God as The Christian God?

[Gerry]

e-mail John Paul II? Is that possible?

 

[Zico]

<P>

Originally posted by LouisBooth <BR>"The Old Testament God was pretty brutal, to say the least. " <BR><BR>Umm...but you're looking at half a picture. My God is the God of the whole bible. Who disciplines yes, but is loving as well. He doesn't say, kill someone and get into heaven. You actually stated what you believe, that's why I addressed you. if your God says you can murder people then you're not worshiping the same God I am, nor are you worshiping the God of the bible.

</P>
<P>???????????????????????????</P>
<P>Maybe you are looking at half a picture here. Surely my God&nbsp;and her&nbsp;God is the God of the OT, NT and the Qur'an.</P>
<P>And then let's see where does God ask us to kill people ( keep in mind these verses were revieled to&nbsp;Muhammad when he was casted out from Makka (which is by the way called Faran also )&nbsp;&nbsp;by the idolators, not Christians or Jews, and had to eat the leefs of trees to survive&nbsp&nbsp;&nbsp;:</P>
<P>2:<A name=190><B>190.</B></A> Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.</P>
<P>This verse&nbsp;explains it's self.</P>
<P>2:<A name=191><B>191.</B></A> And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.</P>
<P>Do you like the idea of somebody casting you out of your country because of your faith?.</P>
<P>2:<A name=192><B>192.</B></A> But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.</P>
<P>This verse also does explain it's self.</P>
<P>2:<A name=193><B>193.</B></A> And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.</P>
<P>We already explained who is Allah.</P>
<P>2:<A name=194><B>194.</B></A> The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.</P>
<P>Isn't this the way you should treet the ones who start agression against you as God and logic states with out any&nbsp;blame on your side, but also to know that God is the most merciful?.</P>
<P>2:<A name=195><B>195.</B></A> And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good.</P>
<P>Can't you see that he prohibits suicide?. ( eg. September 11).</P>
<P>Again, i&nbsp;question your sources on the Qur'an.</P>

 

[Zico]

sorry, there was an error with a script of some kind, if it is totaly un readable, i can post it again.

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by Gerry
e-mail John Paul II? Is that possible?

&nbsp;

Hey Gerry&nbsp; ,&nbsp; If you get his e-mail address&nbsp; pass it on to me so I can tell him a thing or too&nbsp; ,&nbsp; and I will tell him what he can do with his ecumenism

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by Zico
Annabel Lee,

your pic did disapoint me,,, not that you don't look pretty , but i thought you were a real Klingon

How do you dare give us false hope

I will contact StarFleet right now

&nbsp;

It's good to see that your growing a sense of humour zico , and if you hang around long enough you may become a christian yourself .

But let me tell you zico ,&nbsp; LAY OFF THE BABE&nbsp; .&nbsp;&nbsp;

You can have the klingon lady&nbsp; ,&nbsp; because I prefer the real deal&nbsp; ,&nbsp; OK ?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ha ha&nbsp; .

 

[Zico]

So who's the spider now Brian45 ????? . and also i don't know why you keep running your ha ha's


As for the babe, i do have a deep feeling about who she likes

 

[Zico]

On second thought Brian,

You can keep her, she's not a klingon after all....

 

[Brian45]

Why do you take everything so seriously zico ?

I tried to joke with you but you seem full of venom .

If you want to get something of your chest but feel you can't do it here ,&nbsp; then feel free to PM&nbsp; me&nbsp; .&nbsp; I am a good listener .&nbsp; thankyou .

 

[Zico]

You don't have any idea of how much i love to joke Brian,

Friends ?????????

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by Zico
You don't have any idea of how much i love to joke Brian,

Friends ?????????

&nbsp;

Yep , absolutely .&nbsp;

By the way zico , if there are any of my posts that you find offensive ,&nbsp; I will rub them out&nbsp; .

And don't forget , if you wish to speak privately just PM me any time ,&nbsp; OK mate .

PS .&nbsp; Please don't ask me to rub out all of my posts , I don't have that much time .

 

[Zico]

works fine for me

cough*** mate***couth

 

[Shane Roach]

I find this to be an attempt by pseudo-intelectuals to dictate to others what they believe. I for one do not believe I worship the same God as present day Jews or Muslims for the simple reason that I worship Christ. They don't. Therefore, whatever they are whorshiping or think they are worshiping is obviously not the same person.

*shrugs* It really doesn't get much simpler than that. Is Christ Lord? No? Then you worship someone other than I do.

 

[A Sheep]

Originally posted by Zico
Yes, it flies right in the face of science! , ?????????????

http://www.sharif.org.uk/science.htm

Check ( human reproduction ) under the Qur'an chapter.

I do not want a moslem link please.&nbsp; Everyone knows that blood and sperm do not make a baby.&nbsp; It is a scientific fact.&nbsp; Just ask your mom or any doctor.&nbsp; It is sperm and an egg.&nbsp;

Back to the thread's topic:

It is very simple, as Shane Roach put it, Our God is triune in nature and came down to die for us.&nbsp; "allah" is not triune, and he didn't die for anyone.&nbsp; They are obviously not the same.&nbsp; If the koran and The Bible were written by the same diety then obviously their would not be blatant contradictions between them.&nbsp; For example:&nbsp; One book says love God and neighbor, the other says kill the infidels if they come into&nbsp;your mosque, or if you are invading them in their city; to make them pay a jiza tax if they want to live.&nbsp; One says that God is triune, one does not and says that calling him triune is outright blasphemy.&nbsp; One says that the greatest thing that anyone can do for another is die for them so He did, the other has not talked about, or shown such love.&nbsp; One says that the old laws&nbsp;are over and everyone is equal(Jew,Greek,Slave,Free), and that stoning is over with (love your neighbor, let God handle them after death, he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc.).&nbsp; The other(koran) says to cover up women, beat them, stone people, hang people, cut off hands for stealing, etc.&nbsp; Now these few examples above obviously prove that both of the books cannot have&nbsp;been&nbsp;written by the same god, and that they are NOT describing the same god.&nbsp; Either God is triune and died for you or he is not and he did not.&nbsp; End of story.&nbsp; Amen.&nbsp; This thread is over with.&nbsp; Triune, sacrifice; singular, no love.&nbsp; Choose who you will worship, they are not the same.&nbsp; Remember&nbsp;some passages of the Bible:

Mat 5:39 "But I tell you not to try to get even with a person who has done something to you. When someone slaps your right cheek, turn and let that person slap your other cheek." (no more stoning, or hanging, or hand cutting.)

Joh 1:18 "No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like."(Jesus is "truly God")

Joh 2:19 ""Destroy this temple," Jesus answered, "and in three days I will build it again!" 20 The leaders replied, "It took forty-six years to build this temple. What makes you think you can rebuild it in three days?" 21 But Jesus was talking about his body as a temple. 22 And when he was raised from death, his disciples remembered what he had told them. Then they believed the Scriptures and the words of Jesus."(Jesus saying that He Himself would build/raise His body; no human can do that for themselves.)

&nbsp;

 

[Zico]

Sorry to say that we don't agree. but i do agree with you about posting on this thread though.

In the mean time, let's just sit and wait for 50 years or so to see who else will be added to God, and believe me, your people will give an excuse for that when it happens.

 

[A Sheep]

Oh contraire, my friend. No person has been added to God. Just the opposite happened, God came to earth and took on human form. That just happened to have happened more than 600 years before their was such thing as a "moslem". Sorry. God has been triune for all time, and was before time, and will always be. Humans have known this for just about 2000 years now also; no change since 1st century AD. Just because muhammad did not like the idea of a triune god does not make what he wrote to be the truth. In the end, everyone will know the truth. I pray that you will find that truth before you die, and I hope that other Christians will do the same.

 

[Sauron]

Originally posted by A Sheep

It is very simple, as Shane Roach put it, Our God is triune in nature and came down to die for us.&nbsp; "allah" is not triune, and he didn't die for anyone.&nbsp; They are obviously not the same.&nbsp; If the koran and The Bible were written by the same diety then obviously their would not be blatant contradictions between them.&nbsp;

Unless the bible is the result&nbsp;you get, when men corrupt the original word of God.&nbsp;

For example:&nbsp; One book says love God and neighbor, the other says kill the infidels if they come into&nbsp;your mosque, or if you are invading them in their city; to make them pay a jiza tax if they want to live.&nbsp;

Hmm.&nbsp; Islam doesn't say this.

&nbsp;One says that God is triune, one does not and says that calling him triune is outright blasphemy.&nbsp; One says that the greatest thing that anyone can do for another is die for them so He did, the other has not talked about, or shown such love.&nbsp;

You are wrong about what Islam&nbsp;says&nbsp;on this topic.

&nbsp;One says that the old laws&nbsp;are over and everyone is equal(Jew,Greek,Slave,Free), and that stoning is over with (love your neighbor, let God handle them after death, he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc.).&nbsp; The other(koran) says to cover up women, beat them, stone people, hang people, cut off hands for stealing, etc.&nbsp; Now these few examples above obviously prove that both of the books cannot have&nbsp;been&nbsp;written by the same god,

Actually, what these few "examples" prove is that you don't understand Islam enough to be trying to draw comparisons here.&nbsp; You might want to spend some time reading what the Koran says, or at least&nbsp;becoming familiar with the&nbsp;actual punishments&nbsp;in Islamic law. Here's a good starting point:

http://freshair.npr.org/guestInfoFA.cfm?name=2002/khaledabouelfadl&nbsp;

You know - fundamentalist christians get mad when nonbelievers try to tell them "what the bible says", when the nonbeliever has never even picked up a bible to read it.

Yet, those same fundamentalists see no problem with trying to state what other religions say, without bothering to actually study the holy text of that religion.

It never ceases to amaze me how fundies are blind to their own double standard.

&nbsp;and that they are NOT describing the same god.&nbsp; Either God is triune and died for you or he is not and he did not.&nbsp; End of story.&nbsp; Amen.&nbsp; This thread is over with.&nbsp;

Indeed.&nbsp;

&nbsp;

 

[A Sheep]

To Sauron:

The Koran does say those things. You know they have islamic sites online, Christian apologetic sites online and also the koran itself. So I would know if these things are in the koran or not; and they are. Do some research please. Just look at the Moslem countries in the world. Women completely covered, beaten, hands being cut-off. Look at Afghanistan. Did you not see on CNN about the soccer field in Afghanistan that was used for hangings/be-headings? What about the torture of women, Jews, and Christians in Iran, Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Lebanon, etc. You cannot ignore these facts. Look at al queda, bin laden, homicide bombers, etc. All off them are Moslems. Sorry, it all points to a book that preaches extreme violence against women and "infidels". No way around the facts. The views of god in Christianity and islam are way too opposing as to make the similarities naught.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Maybe you are looking at half a picture here. Surely my God and her God is the God of the OT, NT and the Qur'an.</"

Nope, allah is not the same as God. repost it. and use [ ]instead of < >

 

[LouisBooth]

"Islam doesn't say this. "

*sigh* yes it does. If you are "repressed" it is okay to kill them. This includes them stepping into your mosque check this out too

http://www.carm.org/islam/hadith_jihad.htm

 

[Sauron]

Originally posted by A Sheep
To Sauron:

The Koran does say those things.

No, it does not.

You know they have islamic sites online, Christian apologetic sites online and also the koran itself. So I would know if these things are in the koran or not; and they are. Do some research please.

I've already done my research&nbsp; into this.&nbsp; You're wrong.&nbsp; End of story.&nbsp; If you think that the Koran does say such things, then gett off your lazy backside, use these Islamic sites and the online Koran, and find the verses.

And when you do that, make sure that you are reading them with full Islamic exegetical context, and historical context.&nbsp;

You might want to ask SimpleChristian about just how dangerous and shaky your claims are right now.

Just look at the Moslem countries in the world. Women completely covered, beaten, hands being cut-off.

This actually varies widely. Moreover, there is plenty of spousal abuse in the third world, which is not related to being in an Islamic country.&nbsp; Hint:&nbsp; coincidence is not causality.

And if you'd like to prove your point, then you're going to have to come up with&nbsp;specific examples.&nbsp; So far all you have is a bunch of vague, unsupported claims.&nbsp;

Look at Afghanistan. Did you not see on CNN about the soccer field in Afghanistan that was used for hangings/be-headings?

Yep.&nbsp; And you know what?&nbsp; Just because some people in Afghanistan do something, that doesn't mean that it's in the Koran, or that it's part of Islam.&nbsp;

That was your claim, right?&nbsp; That this is in the Koran, or commanded by Islam?

I could just as easily say that assassinations of abortion&nbsp;doctors is in the bible, because the people who do such things say that they are christian and that they are carrying out God's will.&nbsp; I could also say that t

What about the torture of women, Jews, and Christians in Iran, Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Lebanon, etc.

Yes, and:

• What about the discrimination against Muslims, Turks, and North Africans in Europe?
• What about the torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Croatia?&nbsp;
• What about the discrimination against Muslims that existed in Lebanon for decades?&nbsp;
• What about the discrimination and torture against Muslims in India?
• What about the Protestant and Catholic fighting in Northern Ireland?

All your example proves, is that the majority in power likes to oppress the minority.&nbsp; Well, gee - I already knew that.&nbsp;

But you haven't proven your claim - that any of this is related to Islam, or the Koran.&nbsp; And the fact that it happens to Muslims also - and sometimes inflicted on them by christians - could be used to say that the bible instructs christians to commit atrocities and discrimination.

I mean, to be consistent here, and not be hiding behind a double standard?

Right?&nbsp;

You cannot ignore these facts. Look at al queda, bin laden, homicide bombers, etc. All off them are Moslems.

Yep.&nbsp; And the mujahideen who fought the Soviets in Afghanistan were Muslims, too.&nbsp; Somehow we in the USA didn't mind that so much...

The fact that these extremists you mentioned are all Muslims does not prove that their actions are approved of by Islam.&nbsp; There were people who bombed black churches in the south, and said that God told them to do it, in order to preserve the divinely ordained separation of the races.

Once again:&nbsp; just because someone says they're acting on behalf of God, that doesn't make it so.&nbsp;

Sorry, it all points to a book that preaches extreme violence against women and "infidels". No way around the facts.

But you have presented zero facts here; that is, in fact, the problem with your entire argument.&nbsp; You're simply uninformed and ignorant about this topic, and are spewing your own emotions out instead of doing any hard research.&nbsp;

Laziness is not a virtue, Sheep.

The views of god in Christianity and islam are way too opposing as to make the similarities naught.

Oh, please.&nbsp;

You don't even know what Islam says about God; therefore your statement makes no sense whatsoever.