Is Abortion Okay?

Allie Short

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Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-life. I do not believe innocent babies should be murdered as a form of birth control or as a way of avoiding responsibility. But I hit this gray area when it comes to issues of rape and incest, or if the mother will die because of the pregnancy, or if the baby will be stillborn. Do we value the life of the baby over the mother? What are your opinions? What are the solutions to these situations? Just curious!
 
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Targaryen

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Rape or incest cases, I'd hope the mother would opt for adoption, clearly there would be issues to keeping the child herself. Those kind of issues can lead to an abusive home. If, and only if the mother's condition is fatal without an end of pregnancy then I can understand it in that case only. But those cases are hopefully shockingly rare.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Hello, Allie Short, and welcome to CF!


Rape or incest cases, I'd hope the mother would opt for adoption, clearly there would be issues to keeping the child herself. Those kind of issues can lead to an abusive home. If, and only if the mother's condition is fatal without an end of pregnancy then I can understand it in that case only. But those cases are hopefully shockingly rare.

I basically agree with this.

If the mother is capable of not seeing the person who violated her in the child, and can forgive, she could even be a good mother to the child. It has happened. If she can't do that yet, then adoption is the best consideration.

If the mother's life is truly in danger, then I think that is not the place of government to legislate either way, nor anyone's place to judge. That decision should be approached with prayer, and shared by the mother, father, and hopefully with pastoral guidance and counseling. Thankfully, as stated, these situations are truly rare. I know of more cases where the mother is discovered to need treatment (often for cancer) that would kill the developing baby, so ... the decision to treat or not during pregnancy must be made. I fault no one - that us their decision either way. Lord have mercy.

But it is not common enough be used as a basis to justify broad legislation.

The way society views life and babies will ultimately determine the legal standpoint. If babies are not considered human, or alive, if to have rights to live before birth, that will affect legal outcomes. Equally we see "quality of life" considerations affecting the decision to allow care, or to allow the purposeful ending of life, in some cases, in similar fashion.

But morally, from a Christian standpoint, all human beings are created in the image of God, and have intrinsic value. And only God has the right to give and take life in such circumstances as these.
 
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Tolworth John

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Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-life. I do not believe innocent babies should be murdered due as a form of birth control or as a way of avoiding responsibility. But I hit this gray area when it comes to issues of rape and incest, or if the mother will die because of the pregnancy, or if the baby will be stillborn. Do we value the life of the baby over the mother? What are your opinions? What are the solutions to these situations? Just curious!

The general rule is that abortion is wrong, but there are always gray areas.
Some of which are easier than others. In the case of where it will kill the mother to continue the pregnacy abortion is the only answer as it is better to take one life rather than destroy two lives.
The other examples incest and rape we are talking about the mothers mental state.
Is it going to cause more harm to go through with a pregnancy or to risk the harm to the mothers mental state of aborting it.

It is the unanswerable question for the mother of remembering, I discovered I was pregnant on this date, on this date the abortion was carried out and on this date I was due to give birth. I wonder what?

I think women are mentally stronger than society gives them credit for and no matter how distressing getting pregnant was bringing up their child is far more healing than memories of what happened and wondering what if.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I'm not saying this to be disagreeable, but just a comment on how our legal system works. I wish we used good sense instead of precedent, but the fact is that would be abused too.

But with that said, if the allowance is made for the mother's mental state of having to carry and give birth to the child of her rapist, the question will begin to be asked, what of the mother who is distressed because she broke up with the child's father? What of the distress of the mother who is worried she will have stretch marks?

I'm not trying to make light of it ... only saying that when our legal system begins to ask the first question, there is the potential to request the same ruling for the following questions.

Our legal system just isn't perfect. It is decidedly better than many. But true perfection may be unattainable, and as a result, these are the things we must be aware of.

But I'm not dismissing your concerns. Only additionally commenting the possible or even likely attempts to follow.
 
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“Paisios”

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...But I hit this gray area when it comes to issues of rape...
It always seems strange and sad to me that we allow an innocent infant to be killed without due process for the crimes of his or her father...

I wish I had an answer, especially a way to prevent this situation ever arising. It is easy to sit here and talk about it on paper or the internet, but I have worked with women facing this heartbreaking and difficult situation, and facing it in the real world is much more difficult...
 
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Targaryen

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It always seems strange and sad to me that we allow an innocent infant to be killed without due process for the crimes of His or her father...

I wish I had an answer, especially a way to prevent this situation ever arising. It is easy to sit here and talk about it on paper or the internet, but I have worked with women facing this heartbreaking and difficult situation, and facing it in the real world is much more difficult...

I think these cases are why talk about over throwing the current law kinda worries me at the same time makes sense to me. We can never really feel comfortable I think with any decision made in such grey areas.

This topic is no laughing matter and I'm certainly not advocating a pro-choice viewpoint. as I said, these types of situations are things I struggle with to make sense...or to feel comfortable with my own views at times.
 
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salt-n-light

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Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-life. I do not believe innocent babies should be murdered due as a form of birth control or as a way of avoiding responsibility. But I hit this gray area when it comes to issues of rape and incest, or if the mother will die because of the pregnancy, or if the baby will be stillborn. Do we value the life of the baby over the mother? What are your opinions? What are the solutions to these situations? Just curious!

For the most part I'm also pro-life.

But my opinion:
Abortion is okay if there is no way to save the kid. I think abortion should be a last resort.Because at the end of the day, its literally killing a child.It's not a move to take lightly.

So for example, is there a way to save the child if you were rape or did incest? Yes.
Is there a way to save the child if its gonna be stillborn, or is already stillborn? No.
Now in cases where it's between saving the mother and saving the child should be left to the mother, and just make a sound judgment on it.

God knows the heart of the mother. No matter what move they made in the past, as long as they make sure to be in right-standing with God, God will honor it.
 
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chevyontheriver

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... or if the mother will die because of the pregnancy, or if the baby will be stillborn. Do we value the life of the baby over the mother? What are your opinions? What are the solutions to these situations? Just curious!
The life of the mother has equal value to that of the baby. Neither one of them can be devalued to save the other. Some medical conditions require treatment for the mother to live, but may harm or kill the baby. Various cancer treatments come to mind. While it might be heroic for a mother to sacrifice herself so her baby can come to term, that is not required. A woman may pursue lifesaving treatment for herself as long as there is no direct intent to harm the baby, even if it is a foreseeable consequence. But what is not allowable is to directly intentionally kill the baby. That, at least is a boiled down version of Catholic teaching. Perhaps too boiled down to answer every variant of every question, but at least short.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Is there a way to save the child if its gonna be stillborn, or is already stillborn? No.
If the child has already died, that's not a procured abortion and there is no sin involved at all.
If the child has not yet died, I think it is wise to wait. There have been so many dire diagnoses that have just been completely wrong that it would be prudent to wait. Now if there is a medical emergency, and the mother's life is in peril, it is legitimate to treat the mother, and if there is an unintended consequence that the baby dies, there is no evil in that either.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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Abortion in any form is done out of selfishness. Even if one is pregnant due to rape or incest. The rapist is selfish of course too. But the baby is the most innocent victim in all of it, it has no choice in being made, it has no voice when it comes to what it wants. The woman has the power of life and death over it. You can always give it up for adoption.

Now some will say "But for 9 months my body goes through major changes and I suffer and also have bills to pay from having the baby!" And? You were forced into the situation, as was the baby. Can't blame the baby for that. If you want revenge (like suing them) or want money or whatever go after who got you pregnant. I have heard of someone who was raped and she put the baby up for adoption before she even had it, someone wanted it and paid for her medical appointments, the birth and everything. Don't know if thats true or not.

And theres a chance once the baby is born and you see it, you may fall in love and want to keep it. Children are a blessing after all, they can be a light at the end of a dark tunnel, even tunnels you had no choice in.
 
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JIMINZ

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I see it this way, it is a Moral Issue in an Immoral Society.

There are segments on the TV which depict abuse of animals, with the pleading voice of the narrator, Please send you dollars now, so people do, feeling so compassionate for this dog, shivering in the cold with no one to love it, then 6 mo. later this single woman who sent money for a poor animal, finds out she is Pregnant, what does she do, goes to the Planned Parenthood Clinic and Aborts her unwanted unloved child to be.

I believe Abortion is a serious issue, there are extenuating circumstances in every situation, and should be taken case by case, but I personally find it hard to believe there are sooooo many Abortions performed because of Rape, and Incest, when the people committing these crimes are not going to Prison in the same numbers as the Abortions.

The sad part besides the Abortions themselves is, God is judging our Country for OUR SIN!
 
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redleghunter

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Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-life. I do not believe innocent babies should be murdered due as a form of birth control or as a way of avoiding responsibility. But I hit this gray area when it comes to issues of rape and incest, or if the mother will die because of the pregnancy, or if the baby will be stillborn. Do we value the life of the baby over the mother? What are your opinions? What are the solutions to these situations? Just curious!
Thanks for the insightful questions.

The life of the mother has never been a moral issue nor even illegal prior to Roe v. Wade. Doctors and families always had their own right to life considered.

Rape and incest is a gray issue for some. However, we first should ask the moral question as Christians. Is the life in the womb a human being of equal moral worth as the pregnant woman?

I would personally answer that question first as a Christian before proceeding.
 
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PanDeVida

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Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-life. I do not believe innocent babies should be murdered as a form of birth control or as a way of avoiding responsibility. But I hit this gray area when it comes to issues of rape and incest, or if the mother will die because of the pregnancy, or if the baby will be stillborn. Do we value the life of the baby over the mother? What are your opinions? What are the solutions to these situations? Just curious!


Allie,

First of all what kind of a mother would a mother be, if she aborted her baby, to save her own life but then to loose her own soul for doing such an act of murder??? One word comes to mind, re: such a mother and that is, Selfish and only stands to behind ProLife, when it does not affect her.

Now re: rape and incest, a Horrible thing and against God!!! However Allie, what you seem to forget, it was God that allowed A life to be born from such a horrible thing, i.e. rape or incest, because God in His Goodness allows something Good to come out of something Bad and therefore no one has the Right to abort a baby due to Rape or Incest as well.

A Good Mother the ADULT of the two, would protect her Baby put Her Baby First before herself, born or unborn.

Solution for these situations, is LOVE of motherhood! Not self love and self love of a mother to be, is what abortion is.
 
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St_Worm2

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Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-life. I do not believe innocent babies should be murdered as a form of birth control or as a way of avoiding responsibility. But I hit this gray area when it comes to issues of rape and incest, or if the mother will die because of the pregnancy, or if the baby will be stillborn. Do we value the life of the baby over the mother? What are your opinions? What are the solutions to these situations? Just curious!
Hi Allie, I'm not saying that I agree with aborting unborn children because of incest and/or rape, but of the nearly 1.5 billion abortions (reported worldwide since 1980), less than 1% of them were performed because of incest, rape, and/or a threat to either the mother's life or health combined. Over 99% are used as a last-ditch method of birth control, as the final solution for unplanned/unwanted pregnancies.

Just FYI.

Yours and His,
David

"A baby is cradled / carried in the womb of it's mother, to grow and be nurtured until birth. Each baby is a wholly separate person from it's mother: With different DNA, different fingerprints, with possibly a different blood type or the opposite sex. The baby is a person living within a person and not "the mother's body". The mom is appointed to care for the separate life she carries within her and once it's born, find a home for her baby, if she can't provide one." -- Melody Green
 
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Penny Feeley

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God in His Goodness allows something Good to come out of something Bad
Regarding rape and incest i didnt consider this. I always thought that maybe that would be one circumstance it may be ok to have an abortion because its a constant reminder to the mother and she might not love her child like she should. I like your statement. I'll have to use that.
 
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Radagast

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Do we value the life of the baby over the mother?

No, but the health of the mother never requires a baby to be killed.

Sometimes the health of the mother requires the baby to be removed from the womb, and if that happens too early the baby will inevitably die (but at least we should make sure the baby dies painlessly).

However, if the baby is removed from the womb by Caesarean after about 23 weeks, the baby is likely to survive when placed in neonatal intensive care.

Generally speaking, obstetricians keep the baby alive by keeping the mother healthy. If the pregnancy is causing health problems, they make a judgement call on when to do the Caesarean.
 
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Abortion in any form is done out of selfishness. Even if one is pregnant due to rape or incest. The rapist is selfish of course too. But the baby is the most innocent victim in all of it, it has no choice in being made, it has no voice when it comes to what it wants. The woman has the power of life and death over it. You can always give it up for adoption.

Now some will say "But for 9 months my body goes through major changes and I suffer and also have bills to pay from having the baby!" And? You were forced into the situation, as was the baby. Can't blame the baby for that. If you want revenge (like suing them) or want money or whatever go after who got you pregnant. I have heard of someone who was raped and she put the baby up for adoption before she even had it, someone wanted it and paid for her medical appointments, the birth and everything. Don't know if thats true or not.

And theres a chance once the baby is born and you see it, you may fall in love and want to keep it. Children are a blessing after all, they can be a light at the end of a dark tunnel, even tunnels you had no choice in.
For many rape victims, being forced to carry a pregnancy can involve lovely things such as a constant trigger for the psychiatric trauma caused by the rape. Do you really think it's right to make someone go through that? (If rape victims weren't able to get legal, safe abortions)

I mean, yes, I understand the think of the baby! standpoint... but what about the mother? Shouldn't we be thinking of her, too?
 
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~Anastasia~

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For many rape victims, being forced to carry a pregnancy can involve lovely things such as a constant trigger for the psychiatric trauma caused by the rape. Do you really think it's right to make someone go through that? (If rape victims weren't able to get legal, safe abortions)

I mean, yes, I understand the think of the baby! standpoint... but what about the mother? Shouldn't we be thinking of her, too?
Rape is a truly tragic thing for a woman to have to endure. And there can certainly be long-term psychological trauma that can't even begin to be dealt with in the coming few months.

Ideally no pregnancy would result. And statistically, thankfully, it is rare.

But if it does happen then yes, you have a woman pregnant with a baby as the result of a rape, still in the throes of immediate psychological trauma. This is indeed a very unfortunate circumstance.

But have you considered the related dangers?

Ideally, she might progress to the understanding that the child is as much a created victim as herself, and innocent of any wrongdoing. She might be able to progress to the understanding that God can bring good from a very evil act. And of course, the child is her very own child, her own flesh and blood, as much as any beloved child born of any mother.

But what happens if she has an abortion in order to be spared the months of being reminded of the attack (she's not going to be able to forget it so quickly anyway) ... and THEN reaches the understanding I mention above, and for the rest of her life has to confront the guilt she feels at having been encouraged to murder her own child, just for the sake of being less-reminded of a trauma she can't forget anyway?

But once the abortion is done, it can't be undone. No one can "fix" that guilt for her.

It is not so different from a young woman who gets pregnant, unmarried, unintentionally, and her own parents, perhaps the baby's father and his parents, whoever, are pressuring the girl to abort the baby, maybe against her own conscience, because it will bring unwanted cost, inconvenience, and/or shame upon everyone? Sometimes young women give into this pressure and are scarred with guilt for life.

So what is the best psychological outcome for the woman? The truth is, no one knows. But it could be worse for having killed the child. And as I said, she isn't going to forget the rape within 9 months anyway.

And we cannot forget that it is entirely possible that the act of giving birth, bringing a precious life into the world, whether she loves and raises that child herself, or gives it into the care of adoptive parents, is an act of love that can serve as an amazingly cathartic rebellion against the act of hate that was performed upon her person. The baby can serve as healing in a way nothing else could do.

Maybe.

But we can't know, and making that decision so quickly after the assault, when the emotions are raw, runs the risk of damaging her further for life, and robbing her of one of the best tools for healing she may have. And that's just the woman's perspective. It still kills an innocent child as well.

So putting that forth as an immediate solution could be very misguided.


What I would strongly support, having said this, is to take non-abortive measures to prevent any conception from occurring, if possible. And if it does happen, to offer the woman intensive counseling to hopefully reach the understanding I've detailed above. I'm not saying force the woman to do anything. But she DESERVES to be made fully aware of the possible medical and psychological consequences of abortion before any such decision is reached.
 
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