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animals and humans both have souls. animals do not have spirits. humans have human spirits. God gives us our human spirit at birth, he doesn't give animals a human spirit at birth. thus how we differ from animals, but a fetus is the same as an animal just body and soul, no human spirit.
Yes, but i did not want to go into detail listing the exceptions...I can see a case for the baby is going to die anyway....or in some life and death situation...but many times it is not the case...A mother ought to be willing to die for her child...so should the fatherm not the other way around.
jad said:
Since the soul is in the blood, then it is only logical that the human spirit is somewhere in the body. and since the word for spirit means breath, voila, it is in the lungs. It's inside us somewhere. which leads to the obvious conclusion that we receive our human spirit at birth. which means prior to our birth we are like an animal, just body and soul no human spirit. A porpouse has aproximately the same brain size to body size that we humans have and it has a body and soul but no human spirit. that is the reason a porpouse is dumb compared to humans, because it has no human spirit. our human spirit is what makes us different and smarter than that animals, without a human spirit we would be just like the animals, which is what a fetus is like. Thus although killing a fetus is wrong, it isn't the same as killing a human that has been born. Someone having an abortion hasn't done anything more wrong than say perhaps fornicating, or adultry, or some such thing. If I made the laws, I wouldn't put people away for life that had had an abortion. the punishment doesn't fit the crime. In a more moral society, not our present one, I would say off hand a good punishment for abortion might be something like a year in Jail.
ahhhh I'd say that's a little to harsh punishment for the crime.
yea but a 24 week old babe out of the womb is suckin air. big difference.april said:
we're entering into the guessing realm here, but, ill give it a shot. Probably god has a human spirit lined up for every fetus that comes to be, if a fetus gets aborted either naturally or unnaturally, like by a doctor, then God just chooses another fetus for the human spirit to occupy. So God foreknew Jerimiah and god foreknew that the fetus that became Jerimiah would come to fruition, therefore, he, God , could say this.april said:
abortion. In our perfect world that is. which this world obviously isn't.
hmm..why do you think so? I disagree with you. I think that babies are living human beings since conception...and I don't see why the soul is located in the lungs. Did you get this from Genesis, when God created Adam? But why do you think that means that the soul is located in the lungs? What if a person has a lung transplant?
The Bible says that God knew us before we were born, and that He formed us in our mother's womb.
hmm..why do you think so? I disagree with you. I think that babies are living human beings since conception...and I don't see why the soul is located in the lungs. Did you get this from Genesis, when God created Adam? But why do you think that means that the soul is located in the lungs? What if a person has a lung transplant?
The fetus is a human being. When there is a body and it is human, it is a human being.
The stage which it goes through before beginning to form its body i.e. during the first two weeks after conception, are less important than the later stages. During these early stages anything could happen. The early embryo could divide into two, three or four individuals. Alternatively, it could join with another fertilized egg and become one person with two different sets of DNA. So, I would argue that personhood is less likely at this stage.
However, once it begins to form into a particular being, it becomes more important. Then, at 8 weeks gestation the formed embryo starts to look like an actual baby and is referred to as a fetus. At this stage it has a formed human body.
). Even an older child is not autonomous. They cannot do whatever they want to do.Your view is surprisingly common. They teach it at universities, nursing colleges, medical school, etc. It has been put about so much that it is almost like universal brain-washing. I first heard this view more than 20 years ago when I was at nursing college. So, please do not take my dissection of this view personally.
Firstly, let us take the term "autonomous". I've heard that word in several other contexts than what we are talking about here. For example: "Patient Autonomy". This means allowing the patient to have a say in their medical care.
The question arises, "Who is truly autonomous?"
The prime minister? Perhaps. The Queen? No.
A newborn baby certainly is not autonomous. A toddler is not autonomous (although they try to be
Adults, living in particular countries are not autonomous either. They have to follow the rules and laws of the country.
So it is plain to see that the term "autonomous" is not a good reason to give for the termination of someone else's life.
Secondly, we have the term human being, which I have covered in my previous post.
Thirdly, "living outside someone else's body" versus "living inside someone else's body". Does the fact that the human being is living inside someone else's body justify killing it?
I think I am posting in Christian Philosophy and Ethics, so I will use the Bible to explain why I think that it is wrong. One of the commandments of Moses was: "Thou shalt not kill." There were no exceptions given.
Even if you leave religion out of it, no-one wants to live in a society where people are allowed to kill others. Their main motivation is protection of self. So, because the fetus (baby) is different to them i.e. any law affecting the fetus will not directly effect them, abortion is permitted in these "civilized" societies.
"Ah, yes, but abortion is there to protect women" is the normal response to what I have posted above. The question remains: "Do women really need abortion to protect themselves?"
These days, contraception has advanced to such an extent that we are no longer living in the dark ages where abortion was seen as the only solution to unwanted pregnancies. Women have so many options now. There are at least two forms of emergency contraception. One of them can be used for up to 5 days after the event.
So the question remains: "Is there really any excuse for abortion, in this modern time?"
Your view is surprisingly common. They teach it at universities, nursing colleges, medical school, etc. It has been put about so much that it is almost like universal brain-washing. I first heard this view more than 20 years ago when I was at nursing college. So, please do not take my dissection of this view personally.
Firstly, let us take the term "autonomous". I've heard that word in several other contexts than what we are talking about here. For example: "Patient Autonomy". This means allowing the patient to have a say in their medical care.
The question arises, "Who is truly autonomous?"
The prime minister? Perhaps. The Queen? No.
A newborn baby certainly is not autonomous. A toddler is not autonomous (although they try to be
Adults, living in particular countries are not autonomous either. They have to follow the rules and laws of the country.
So it is plain to see that the term "autonomous" is not a good reason to give for the termination of someone else's life.
Secondly, we have the term human being, which I have covered in my previous post.
Thirdly, "living outside someone else's body" versus "living inside someone else's body". Does the fact that the human being is living inside someone else's body justify killing it?
I think I am posting in Christian Philosophy and Ethics, so I will use the Bible to explain why I think that it is wrong. One of the commandments of Moses was: "Thou shalt not kill." There were no exceptions given.
Even if you leave religion out of it, no-one wants to live in a society where people are allowed to kill others. Their main motivation is protection of self. So, because the fetus (baby) is different to them i.e. any law affecting the fetus will not directly effect them, abortion is permitted in these "civilized" societies.
"Ah, yes, but abortion is there to protect women" is the normal response to what I have posted above. The question remains: "Do women really need abortion to protect themselves?"
These days, contraception has advanced to such an extent that we are no longer living in the dark ages where abortion was seen as the only solution to unwanted pregnancies. Women have so many options now. There are at least two forms of emergency contraception. One of them can be used for up to 5 days after the event.
So the question remains: "Is there really any excuse for abortion, in this modern time?"
